“His is an outlier data point.”
Yes, and I agree that his recommendations likely played a big role. If the school sends kids to Ivies every year, and he had two teachers write “best of my career” letters, that’s a game changer.
@hanna. Agree that most Chicago suburban schools don’t rank all students. But most of those release top 10 percent GPA and ennough info that schools generally can discern what top 5 percent is.
Also agree that a" best of my career" rec from more than one teacher could be a game changer I believe this is so in a way that an essay (assuming doesn’t disclose new info like homelessness etc…) could never do no matter how good.
I still think some of you are still looking for a key or what trumps what. It needs to be a good whole app.
A super LoR will get attention but not change a ho-hum into a golden boy.
RenMom shows you don’t have to get X score. But it would be interesting to see what you mean by “no special ECs.” What did he have?
@RenaissanceMom not being in honors math doesn’t really matter if you are in Calculus senior year. BC is better than AB, but not by that much. I think that’s demanding enough anywhere but Caltech. Yale doesn’t admit by major, so they don’t care if he thinks he might major in physics. Either he’ll be fine after the first science course he takes at Yale, or he won’t. He’s smart enough to have options. My son’s best friend who got into Yale (legacy at Harvard) was pretty much a bright well-rounded kid. He was in all sorts of musical things (orchestra, jazz band and had a rock band and a rap band outside school), he was in some school musicals, never as the lead, he had some community service things and did summer stuff with younger kids at a local music school. He graduated third in the class so his grades must have been pretty good (probably 97ish unweighted), no idea about his scores. I can only say he’s one of the nicest kids I know. He’s spent the last two years working for a tutoring firm and touring the east coast with his band. It will be interesting to see if he manages to break through.
Not officially admitting by major doesn’t mean they don’t evaluate your prep; in any case where you state or hint at your possible college major, the rigor in your choices can matter very much and related activities. And there are cases where an adcom can note a stem kid had AP calc available but chose only regular and wonder why. But there are many hs that don’t offer AP and do feel their regular calc is every bit as strenuous. So, it depends. Theater/music for stem kids is a nice balance.
RenaissanceMom’s friend put down English and Physics as potential majors. He was not accepted early. So not a shoo-in, but still in the mix. It’s perfectly possible the admissions committee said, he’ll be fine in English, and who knows about physics, but he’ll have options. My younger son knew he wanted IR, but had no IR EC’s so kept quiet about it and just told all his schools he was undecided.
I agree that many suburban schools in the Chicago area do not rank. BUT, in many districts, including the one that my daughter graduated from last year, there are “scholar awards” that make it very clear who’s in the top 3-5% (depending on the school).
@elliemom- my D’s school was same way. No “official” ranking, but the top 20 kids in the class get a special distinction that makes it clear they were top 20.
“BUT, in many districts, including the one that my daughter graduated from last year, there are “scholar awards” that make it very clear who’s in the top 3-5% (depending on the school).”
And they release them in time for ED schools to see them?
“This kid had the 3.9, applied as a physics and English major, but never took honors math.”
The English major may have helped. Borderline students are sometimes admitted in order to fill up under-subscribed departments.
English is not an undersubscribed department at Yale.
In general, English isn’t under-subscribed for gals. I suspect he did a good job of showing this interest was legit.
What I don’t understand is why the issue of not taking honors math if he’s currently in AP calc. He would presumably have had the first semester grade. A deferral from early would have allowed the college to wait for that.
And, re:activities, “his strongest was co-editor.” Yes, but what else? Just because that’s the highest title doesn’t mean the rest of what he did didn’t support his app, help him add up to a sweet picture.
My D is at the STEM magnet school. Lots of bright kids. When I looked at Naviance, the brightest kids (top GPA, top SAT) are ALL rejected by HYPSM, but a number of lower-performing kids are routinely admitted.
I think, one day American people would demand transparency in college admission process. And then - expect a flood of lawsuits. Because it is not fair. (IMHO).
“A normal, mortal, non-minority, non-legacy kid with a 35 ACT and a 4.7 GPA is cannon fodder at HYPSM. Pretty much a waste of time to apply.”
Legacy is not a bog hook. Too many legacy applicants. I think, legacy without substantial, annual donations counts for very little.
Huh? Fair?
“lower performing kids”?
One of my kids was admitted to MIT without a perfect GPA and without the routine Robotics/CS activities that most people expect around here for an MIT admit.
What kind of transparency is required? The adcom’s saw something they were interested in; his performance once admitted (High gpa, strong leadership on campus, participation in various EC’s) clearly supported their decision to admit him.
Why should a kid with a “better” GPA have made a “better” applicant? MIT doesn’t need to look for the kids with a slew of science and computer related EC’s- those kids are already applying in droves. Sometimes the “lesser” admit makes for the “better” student.
What’s unfair about a private U assembling the class they want- and not the class that YOU, California, thinks they should be admitting???
<sometimes the="" “lesser”="" admit="" makes="" for="" “better”="" student.=""> How would adcom know it? Especially, since adcoms spend less than 30 minutes on application. Some crystal ball?
Yes, I would like to know, what exactly makes a “lesser” admit sooo interesting for adcom. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
The key is figuring what a top college thinks is a better applicant. If they come down and ask some CC posters, fine, tell them what you think. But the holistics aren’t asking random parents or high school kids to tell them. Nor are they evaluating solely based on what some hs thinks it’s own best practices are.
Top GPA and scores is not necessarily what makes you the brightest kid. Those are just the things that are the easiest to measure and put on a graph. My younger son can write circles around his older brother. His scores and grades were more uneven, but he’s a real people person and has an amazing understanding of current world issues. He’s much more likely to contribute in class and to the general intellectual vibe of a campus.
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Basic rule of fairness. Most presidents, most Supreme Court justices, most American elite comes from a handful of privates. I, as an American citizen, would like to know, who exactly has this golden opportunity. Why kids with better grades are denied this chance?
If the process is fair - then, colleges will embrace transparency. (BTW, MIT has a reasonably fair admission. If you look at Naviance, you see that they take strong students. Brown / Columbia - have clusters of rejected applicants (top grades) and admits (significantly lower grades). Over 10% of Stanford admits have less than 29 ACT.
Because “better grades” is not the sole factor. Better grades doesn’t make a person honest, caring or even savvy. It doesn’t tell about resilience or good will or engagement. It doesn’t even mean someone can “think his way out of a paper bag.” It just tells how you play the grades game, as it is for you. Same for scores.
Think about it. Is the hs val really automatically the best “person” in the school? Or just the kid with the best grades? Don’t you ever look at the whole person when deciding whom you admire?