<p>you UT guys are so quick to turn on each other…</p>
<p>I do not dislike nunya. Quite the opposite. A spirited exchange of ideas is a good thing. I hope it doesn’t seem personal.</p>
<p>UT needs the right group of diverse student body. A group that is better qualified academically and not just any group happened to be produced by the Top 10% Rule. </p>
<p>I have a very academically capable African American neighbor who got CAP’ed by UT this year mainly because he went to a Texas high school that didn’t rank and therefore was not considered a “Top Ten Percenter”. Guess what, he got accepted by a couple of USNWR’s Top 20 schools. I jokingly said to him that UT didn’t need him because UT had enough underrepresented minority students from the Top 10% group. I wonder how many of them are as good as he is though.</p>
<p>Fiyero - Ah ha, so we do have common ground! Life would be ever so boring if everyone wore the same rose colored glasses and tiptoed through the same field of tulips. </p>
<p>“UT has the faculty, the facilities and the resources to be among the best public universities in the nation. It is already, but how much better could it be if the student body was also among the best?” </p>
<p>It was in the top standings long before the 10% and the 10% hasn’t hurt it. Besides, I don’t think Powers was worried about the academic standings when he said in March the 10% wasn’t allowing him to recruit not so smart football players.</p>
<p>“the student body size needed to be reduced”</p>
<p>The student body size was not reduced. The total student body size has increased. The freshman class was reduced.</p>
<p>“You mention that those excluded from quality high schools won’t make UT a better institution than those students from the top ten, no matter how horrible the high school.”</p>
<p>Nope. Sorry. I never said that. I said the 5A students who were 11% wouldn’t make UT better. A mere hair of a fraction of a percent won’t drastically improve UT stats in the next US News & World Report’s college rankings report. </p>
<p>“The students who have challenged themselves with the best courses available at better schools are penalized now under the current system in favor of someone who didn’t challenge themselves and was “lucky” enough to live in an inferior school district.”</p>
<p>OTOH, the bright kids at smaller schools have been penalized for decades all because of where their parents chose to live and work. Surely, you aren’t saying those kids don’t challenge themselves. Just because a school district is small doesn’t mean it’s inferior any more than a large school district must be superior just because it’s big. Those who don’t challenge themselves in HS aren’t likely to challenge themselves in college and will be weeded out quickly. UT has never argued the 10% can’t make the grade or that they have a larger drop out rate. </p>
<p>“Remember, stats will tell you whatever you want them to tell you, depending on how they are presented” Bingo! That has been my stand all along. UT is manipulating the stats. I haven’t done anything to the stats but post UT’s own link. The media and the public can’t be bothered to look at the stats and determine for themselves. BTW, I have no idea where the Asian/women/White/Hispanic/AA came from. Frankly, it’s no concern to me if students are green or purple or have three heads. </p>
<p>“Out of curiosity, are you a top ten percenter?”</p>
<p>Yes, and #3 rank (yeah, I know, by thissss much) in a 4A HS so none of the proposed changes have me biting nails.</p>
<p>goldtx - IIRC, UT has a ranking system for those applicants who don’t graduate from high schools which don’t rank their students.</p>
<p>So, nunya, what is your position on current proposed legislation? Is 60% of the Freshman class enough? Is 81% enough? Maybe 100%? How much is enough? Will you even care this time next year?</p>
<p>nunya, I am not sure if he was in the top 10% of his class or not. His class was pretty small though (~40 people). But I can tell you that his stats were pretty impressive especially for a minority student. That’s why he got into two USNWR’s Top 20 national universities.</p>
<p>My point is that you don’t want to restrict UT so much with the Top 10% Rule that it doesn’t have the ability to offer admissions to otherwise qualified people.</p>
<p>i am a minority student (asian) and i am for the rule change in general. I feel that the top ten percent rule has been abusive for those students who work hard in more competitive schools but are sometimes neglected when it comes to admission at ut. also, many people who aren’t so bright in high school and don’t have a top ten percent standing in high school can go to college and become very accomplished, so i don’t think the top ten percent rule is all that fair. </p>
<p>however, if the top ten percent rule is to be dismantled, it has to be replaced by another measure for allowing more minorities entrance into ut. i know that many minority students don’t help ut very much (in terms of the overall academic strength of the student body), but it is the minority students’ exposure to such a great university education that is the goal of these minority-driven pieces of legislation. </p>
<p>the bill gates article posted earlier in this thread emphasizes the idea of education being the key to success. when underpriveleged (and even under-performing) minority students are admitted to ut, the weakening of the academic strength of ut’s student body should not be put forward as an adverse effect. the great education at ut serves to enlighten these formerly underpriveleged and under-performing students and propel towards a better future.</p>
<p>so, top ten percent law should be toned down and allow ut more flexibility in admitting their freshmans and at the same time continue to admit minority students.</p>
<p>this top 10% law is not working. they need to have at least some conditions met before they are admitted to UT, like having a certain SAT/ACT score. and more attention needs to be given to the GPA instead of class rank.</p>
<p>and nunya, how would you justify if someone from a good high school who was in top 12% and took a lot of AP classes, had a decent SAT score and didn’t get into UT verses someone who went to a not so good high school and was in top 10% without taking any AP classes and not a good SAT score that got into UT?</p>
<p>If they really believe that they are capable of going to UT, then they should prove themselves by accepting CAP or going to a community colleges and then try to transfer to UT. If they can’t get a high GPA there, then they don’t deserve to be at UT anyways.</p>
<p>More:</p>
<p>[statesman.com</a> | Stacks of bills left in the House, but no more ice cream | First Reading](<a href=“http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/firstreading/entries/2009/05/25/observations_from_a_chubathon.html]statesman.com”>http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/firstreading/entries/2009/05/25/observations_from_a_chubathon.html)</p>
<p>Interesting article Youdon’tsay. It looks like they may have reached a compromise on the law, which is good news to me.</p>
<p>I think it still ties UT’s hands too much, with up to 75% of each year’s freshman class filled with automatic admits. (The current class has 80% automatic admits.) </p>
<p>I feel sorry for the admissions office trying to find the right number of art majors and the right number of music majors, etc., when almost everyone they let in is admitted automatically.</p>
<p>However, I think this compromise would definitely help.</p>
<p>goldtx - “But I can tell you that his stats were pretty impressive especially for a minority student.” </p>
<p>Yeah, isn’t is so sad those poor minority students’ brains just don’t have the capabilities to compete with suburban upper class white guys’ brains… omg… welcome to 1909… sigh… </p>
<p>BTW, he would have had to have ranked no lower than 4th in his class to make the Top 10%. But if as you say he was accepted at two of the top 20 schools then he’s much better off there than at #47 UT.</p>
<p>joe - “how would you justify if someone from a good high school who was in top 12% and took a lot of AP classes, had a decent SAT score and didn’t get into UT verses someone who went to a not so good high school and was in top 10% without taking any AP classes and not a good SAT score that got into UT?” </p>
<p>Diversity!!! No. But who says what is a good or bad school? And just because someone goes to a supposed bad school, who says that student isn’t self motivated and can make the grade? Who says the student didn’t take AP classes or didn’t have a decent SAT? According to UT’s own stats, the students from supposedly below par high schools are successful at UT. Please read the stats before making the same old tired assumptions.</p>
<p>nunya, I am not sure what you’re trying to imply but it’s a well-known fact that there are still some discrepancies between racial groups (and to some extent, genders) in terms of academic performances (GPA’s, SAT scores), despite the fact that we are already in the 21st Century. That’s why there has been an effort to increase the level of racial diversity at the top schools, both public and private, which would otherwise fill up with white and Asian students.</p>
<p>And my neighbor may be better off at one of the top 20 schools but that’s not the point, is it? The point is how UT can afford to at least try to recruit students like my neighbor (who is both a high academic achiever and from an underrepresented minority group) to help improve the quality of its student body while achieving the same or better level of diversity at the same time.</p>
<p>nunya, it’s a fact that there are bad high schools out there. My whole point is that UT should look at the GPA and SAT/ACT score instead of class rank. That way every one has an equal chance of being considered and it would take out the argument between class rank at good v bad high schools. I understand that no system is perfect but we can make it better by removing this top 10% rule. </p>
<p>And I don’t like discussing statistics very much. Even I can give you many statistics like that but no one can change the fact.</p>
<p>And I will say this again, if a person thinks that he/she deserves a place at UT but didn’t get in during freshmen, then they should prove themselves by accepting CAP or going to community college and then transfer to UT.</p>
<p>What does it tell you when other states who have some form of “guaranteed admissions” leave it up to the individual campuses to decide who matriculates there or not…</p>
<p>Michigan, California, and Florida all have a guaranteed admissions program - BUT, you are not guaranteed the school of your choice, you are guaranteed a spot in A publicly supported university. </p>
<p>If these states had the same process as Texas, these would be the results:</p>
<p>In California, everybody would either want to attend UC Berkley or UCLA</p>
<p>In Michigan, everbody would want to attend Univ of Michigan</p>
<p>In Florida, everybody would want to attend UF</p>
<p>Instead, they use the system where based on OTHER stats and admissions criteria besides rank, you may be admitted to UC Riverside or one of the CSU campuses. In Michigan, you may have to settle for MSU or one of the other public U’s. In Florida, it may be FSU, UCF, USF, etc.</p>
<p>In these systems, they maintain that the academic integrity (and diversity) decisions should be and will be decided by the flagship campuses.</p>
<p>Why can’t some people in Texas go to Texas A&M or Tech or UH? Why do they HAVE to go to UT? Educations are what you make of them…</p>
<p>(and just FYI, I have no axe to grind, my junior son is top 10% and my older kids are either graduated from college or attending UT currently - I just feel that the law needs to be repealed or majorly tweaked for the future of the education system in the state of Texas)</p>
<p>The latest:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>AND:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Here’s another article:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.statesman.com/news/content/region/legislature/stories/05/26/0526topten.html[/url]”>http://www.statesman.com/news/content/region/legislature/stories/05/26/0526topten.html</a></p>
<p>Make note that it will not go into effect until the entering freshman class of 2011 - so no changes for hs juniors this year…</p>
<p>“Final approval by the House is expected today, after which the measure would go back to the Senate, whose members previously approved a 60 percent cap for all public universities. “The goal is to send them a take-it-or-leave-it proposal,” said Rep. Mike Villarreal, D-San Antonio”</p>
<p>That about wraps this thread up and others can start a new one next year. </p>
<p>[House</a> moves to scale back top 10 percent rule](<a href=“http://www.statesman.com/news/content/region/legislature/stories/05/26/0526topten.html]House”>http://www.statesman.com/news/content/region/legislature/stories/05/26/0526topten.html)</p>
<p>A version of SB 175 passed the house - but what exactly did it look like when the house was done with it? Is there a “final” version on line somewhere?</p>
<p>[Texas</a> Legislature Online - 81(R) History for SB 175](<a href=“Texas Legislature Online - 81(R) History for SB 175”>Texas Legislature Online - 81(R) History for SB 175)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Bill: SB 175</p>
<p>Disclaimer:This vote has not been certified by the House Journal Clerk. It is provided for informational purposes only. Once the vote is certified, it will be recorded in the journal according to Rule 5 of the House Rules and made available on this web site.</p>
<p>RV# 1205 — Unofficial Totals: 123 Yeas, 20 Nays, 2 Present, not voting</p>
<p>Yeas - Allen; Alvarado; Anchia; Anderson; Aycock; Berman; Bohac; Bolton; Bonnen; Branch; Brown, B.; Brown, F.; Button; Callegari; Chisum; Christian; Cohen; Coleman; Cook; Corte; Crabb; Craddick; Creighton; Crownover; Darby; Davis, J.; Deshotel; Driver; Dunnam; Edwards; Eiland; Eissler; Elkins; Farabee; Farias; Farrar; Fletcher; Flynn; Frost; Gallego; Gattis; Geren; Giddings; Gonzales; Gutierrez; Hamilton; Hancock; Hardcastle; Harless; Harper-Brown; Hartnett; Heflin; Hernandez; Herrero; Hilderbran; Hochberg; Hodge; Homer; Hopson; Howard, C.; Howard, D.; Hughes; Hunter; Jackson; Jones; Kent; King, P.; King, S.; King, T.; Kleinschmidt; Kolkhorst; Laubenberg; Legler; Lewis; Lucio; Madden; Maldonado; Martinez Fischer; McCall; McClendon; Menendez; Merritt; Miller, D.; Moody; Morrison; Naishtat; Oliveira; Orr; Ortiz; Parker; Patrick; Paxton; Phillips; Pickett; Pierson; Pitts; Raymond; Riddle; Rios Ybarra; Ritter; Rodriguez; Rose; Sheffield; Shelton; Smith, T.; Smith, W.; Smithee; Solomons; Strama; Swinford; Taylor; Thibaut; Thompson; Truitt; Turner, C.; Turner, S.; Vaught; Veasey; Vo; Walle; Weber; Woolley; Zerwas</p>
<p>Nays - Alonzo; Davis, Y.; Dukes; England; Flores; Gonzalez Toureilles; Guillen; Isett; Keffer; Leibowitz; Mallory Caraway; Marquez; Martinez; McReynolds; Miklos; Miller, S.; Olivo; Otto; Pe</p>