Setting Goals for the Top Medical Schools

I am a senior at a public high school in rural North Carolina, and in the fall I will be beginning my first semester at UNC Chapel Hill. I am planning to earn a B.S. in Biology and to minor in medical anthropology, with the endgame of getting into a top medical school for oncology. As of right now, my top picks include:

  • Duke
  • Weill-Cornell
  • NYU
  • UCSF

I know it’s unrealistic to ONLY have sights set on the top, because of the astronomical chances of making it; I do have a list of 20 or so back-up schools, and 5 or so other reaches. Nonetheless, being a major player as an oncologist is my goal. Four members of my immediate family have had cancer. I have a talent for being compassionate and giving honest advice. I am an excellent writer. Not to be too intense, but this is something for which I was designed.

Anyways, I figure it’s best to shoot for the top now than during my senior year of undergrad. So, on that note, what specific advice can you give to me for planning out my college career?

Some of my immediate goals/interests include:

  • Intramural frisbee
  • An honors thesis
  • Research in neuroscience and/or oncology
  • Becoming fluent in Spanish (I'm already getting pretty good)
  • Shadowing physicians at the UNC Medical School
  • Humanitarian work (I have considered joining the Peace Corps out of college)
  • Work with student pro-life organizations to get the debate away from religion and more towards science and compassion
  • Model UN
  • Work in writing center
  • Summer courses in philosophy

These are only goals at the moment, but I have taken several immediate steps towards them already. I volunteer at a drug-rehabilitation center; I have participated in Model UN; I’ve taken four years of Spanish; and I am a known voice for life at my high school. Still, I have read that medical applicants must demonstrate proficiency in 15 core competencies and should be able to cite 15 to 20 long-term activities.

What can I do to broaden my horizons in the future at college? What defines a long-term activity in the eyes of a top school? What should be my biggest goals over the next four years in order to set myself apart from the other thousands of applicants?

Thank you for reading through this, and I greatly appreciate any and all advice.

Congratulations on your acceptance to CH!

In my opinion you should spend your first semester adjusting to college life. It is way too early to think about “top” medical schools before you have even started your first year of college. Adjust to college, work hard and get good grades, get to know your professors, get involved in activities that interest you, meet new people etc. That’s my advice for your first semester and year.

Agree with above to focus on transition to college your first semester.

You will need a high GPA (3.7+) and high MCAT to make the first cut of the med school admissions process…so don’t overextend yourself with activities. Meet with your UNC pre-health adviser and make a four year curriculum plan that satisfies current med school requirements.

For ECs, prioritize patient facing experience - work as a CNA, CNA asst or EMT. Continue with Spanish - fluency will be an advantage in getting volunteer positions, patient facing jobs, summer internships, and med school admissions. Also have a plan B if med school doesn’t work out—and it doesn’t for nearly 60% of applicants. Good luck.

Yes, everybody says I’m thinking about it too early, which may be true. I just like to have a game plan and be competitive. Otherwise, that’s extremely helpful and I really do appreciate the advice, especially when it comes to making a four-year plan. I’d probably go on and get my Ph.D. and do research if medical school doesn’t work out. Can you tell me more about how to balance getting CNA-certified and doing the work with an intense pre-medical workload?

And for anyone else on this thread I appreciate any continued advice on my initial question.

During the school year limit your outside work to 10-15 hours a week. Summers you can work full-time and that will get you plenty of hours/experience. Can you work as an asst CNA or do beginning EMT course this summer? These jobs will be critical to you gaining an understanding if you really want to work with patients—not everyone is cut out for that.

You will need top grades and good scores, you will need some shadowing, clinical and non clinical volunteering, leadership, work in underserved communities, and possibly research…depending. It’s a very long and intense road ahead. The first step is to get adjusted to your new life and to learn how to juggle everything while also getting good grades in your classes.

One step at a time.

I agree with all the advice you’ve been given above.

You can do EMT or CNA certification classes over the summer at your local community college. You might even be able to do the training before you start college, so long as you’re over 18 years of age. If you go the EMT route, consider taking AEMT training. The scope of practice for basic EMT is extremely limited and unless you live in a more rural area jobs/volunteer positions for basic EMTs can be hard to find. (Medical personnel refer to them as “bus [ambulance] drivers” for a reason.) Be aware that both CNAs and EMT need to recertify every few years and need X numbers of hands on hours to qualify to take their recertification exams.

If you are aiming for top medical schools, you need also to look for some long term research experience and possibly consider doing a independent senior research thesis. (An in-depth research project which you design and have control over its success or failure.)

You may want to look at some of the class profiles for top med schools to get some ideas of the kinds of impacts that students admitted to Harvard, JHU, etc. have

Here are some student profiles from Harvard:
https://hms.harvard.edu/about-hmsfacts-figuresdeans-reporthms-student-profiles/2016-2017-student-profiles

From JHU:
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admissions/md/students/class_statistics.html
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admissions/md/students/student_innovations.html


RE: Your Plan B. There is a HUGE oversupply of biology PhDs that has existed since the late 1980s. Less than 20% of biology PhDs find research jobs (academic or industrial)--including grads from top programs. A  2010 survey of bio PhDs found that 5 years post-graduation, more than 35% were unemployed or severely under-employed. The situation is even worse today.

[Addressing</a> Biomedical Science’s PhD Problem](<a href="https://www.the-scientist.com/careers/addressing-biomedical-sciences-phd-problem-32258%5DAddressing">https://www.the-scientist.com/careers/addressing-biomedical-sciences-phd-problem-32258)
[The</a> Shrinking Ph.D. Job Market](<a href="https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/04/new-data-show-tightening-phd-job-market-across-disciplines%5DThe">https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/04/new-data-show-tightening-phd-job-market-across-disciplines)

Wow. I am impressed with my post’s reception.

  1. I am not 18 yet, so I cannot begin CNA certification, though that is a brilliant idea for next summer.
  2. I have a general idea of the kind of volunteering in which I'm interested.
  3. UNC has a phenomenal program for honors students to shadow. I will work to be accepted to the honors college in my second semester.
  4. Without regard to whether or not I am accepted to the honors college, I am pretty set on my intent to complete a senior honors thesis.
  5. I do live in an extremely rural area, and if EMT work is something I want to do the opportunity is definitely there.

Thank you all. Do you truly believe that all competitive applicants have 15 or more long-term activities to put on their application? I kind of intended to put more emphasis on getting As and acing the MCAT…

Medical schools are looking for well-rounded individuals with evidence of long-term activities that demonstrate they have the qualities will make a good physician.

While GPA and MCAT are important, the only thing those do is prevent your application from being rejected in the earliest rounds of screening.

There’s saying about med school admission: Your stats get you to the door; your ECs get you invited inside.

If you look at AAMC data, about 15% of applicants w/ GPAs >3.8 and MCAT scores >517 (96th percentile) get rejected every year.

[MCAT and GPA Grid for Applicants and Acceptees to U.S. Medical Schools,2017-2018 through 2018-2019 (aggregated)](https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf)

Adcomms are not looking for 4.0 academic whiz kids–those are a dime a dozen; they’re looking for competent & compassionate human beings, someone who they would feel confident in allowing to care for their autistic child or elderly & demented mother.

Not all of the 15 slots on your AMCAS applicant has to be filled with long term ECs. But last minute and multiple short-term ECs will raise concerns about those ECs being perfunctory “box checking” and not evidence a passion for medicine.

1° Are you in the Honors College? While there aren’t many advantages to it at UNC, it’s still helpful, especially to receive more personal advising, be made aware of opportunities, and to be in a more supportive environment. At some universities, it also helps in getting research opportunities. So, if you aren’t, see if there’s a process for freshmen.
2° Consider switching your major to something else, such as bioinformatics or biostatistics, if you really like biology, or Biological Anthropology, biochemistry perhaps… A PHD in Biology is NOT a good idea as a plan B.

Unless more schools become tuition free, NYU is not a good goal. They will be the equivalent of Stanford or worse Berkley of undergrad applicant volume.

To be competitive for those 4 med schools, you need 3.9+ GPA and 520+ (99%) MCAT. Once you get any grade less than A-, there goes your dream. Are you sure you want to put such big burden on yourself for next 3-4 years?

Why aim so high? your in-state med schools are perfectly fine.

I think you are going about this backwards. You already have a list of about 9 reaches plus 20 “back up” schools. In my opinion your list of schools should not be completed until you have a solid gpa, test scores, and ECs that you are involved in or have completed. Right now it is too early to create any kind of list. How do you know that your “back up” schools are really “back up” schools?

Once you begin college you will find that there are plenty of opportunities to do research, volunteer, etc…but…be careful. You will need to hit the ground running ( in your classes) and manage your time very well. Are you a strong science student? Will you be able to handle writing an honors thesis …plus research ( 10+ hours per week) that may involve getting published…which means hours and hours and hours of sitting with your research team…editing papers…while also volunteering in the hospital, community etc…AND maintain A’s in organic chemistry, genetics, etc?

I know people at UNC who have done it, but it’s not easy and can get quite stressful. Be careful, and take it one step at a time. Burnout is real, it happens to very smart students, and is not fun.

Regarding your “backup plan”, PhD program admissions are also dependent on a strong GPA. One of the main reasons students don’t get into med school is GPA. Also, there are MANY more bio grads each year than the job market can support. So your backup plan has some weaknesses. You don’t need to be a bio major for med school admission.

While I agree that we all should be goal oriented, I believe I would live a little between my senior year and college. And enjoy my college experience. And you need to do things for yourself and for fun to avoid burnout. D is CS premed, but she is also a radio DJ and designs stuff for friends. At least for your 1st semester, you will need to allot time to make new friends and new ECs in college. Relax and have fun!

When you meet with your premed advisor…one of the questions you may be asked is…Are you having fun? College is also about making friends, hanging out, meeting different people, etc. Don’t underestimate these experiences. Carve out time for them. I know very successful premed students at UNC who also hike, go mountain climbing, sing, etc.

^at a large school like UNC, premeds won’t meet with the “premed advisor” because 75% of them will be wiped out by the end of the year due to partying/poor time management, weed out courses, change of interests, etc, etc. So the premed advisors focus on students who have actually made it through the basic weedout process (they’re already pretty busy with the 25% that remain). Most students will also not have a personal adviser (except in the Honors College).
Premeds should make friends and join clubs, but they don’t have much time for “fun”. For the first 3 weeks in HS, not much happens, so many college freshmen go out even during the week and don’t realize they are already behind if they didn’t immediately start reviewing, memorizing, highlighting, synthesizing, going to office hours with questions, etc.

That’s true…many won’t meet with one. The ones who do will also be offered a mentor.

Key is don’t overload yourself first semester and don’t assume that since you got 5s in APs or 800s in SAT IIs you will get easy As in premed courses. For a reason they are called “weed out” classes. Take lighter load, participate in campus activities and make new friends. Try out one or two campus clubs.

You should not target for TOP med schools, they are difficult to get in and its a lottery for anyone. Even with top scores, the chances to get in a TOP med school are slim, they just have too many top students applying.