Setting the record straight on BME

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>I'm a soon to be high school senior and ive decided that majoring in engineering will give me a good backup if I dont make it into medical school. I was perusing these threads and have discovered that yes, it is hard for someone to maintain a good GPA in BME, good enough for med school. However it is possible and many people pursue this track.</p>

<p>Then I found this thread, <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/222845-avoid-bioengineering-if-you-can.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/222845-avoid-bioengineering-if-you-can.html&lt;/a>, which said that BME is not a good backup plan because the job outlook for the industry is bad and there is much lower pay compared to Chem E or EE. </p>

<p>This was from four years ago so I'm wondering if anything has changed....can a graduate degree in BME serve you well? Or would it be better for me to do an undergrad in Chem E and fulfill my med school prereqs since Chem E's have a better job outlook if I choose not to go to med school. Also the thread says it would be easier for me to find a job in Engineering if I do Chem E and then a BME grad degree as opposed to 8 years of BME.....</p>

<p>yea, I'm confused right now. And I dont want to hear "just do what you are most interested in" cuz I wouldn't mind doing either BME or Chem E, i just dont know which one to choose. </p>

<p>thanks</p>

2

<p>come on you know you want to respond</p>

3

<p>anyone???</p>

4

<p>I dont see how the job outlook can be bad whenever it has been ranked the fastest growing industry the past few years in a row.</p>

5

<p>Even if it is a fastest growing industry, it is not necessarily true that BME undergraduates will be the ones that the companies in that industry will mostly recruit. For a research position, they may hire a BME. But they may want a candidate with a higher degree (e.g., PhD in BME). For a BS, they may prefer somebody who have more specialized skills.</p>

<p>I am not sure if the above is definitely true though. But it could be true. Definitely more job opportunities in purely non-academic majors like nurse or accountant. BME is likely a very good research area if you are into research. (like biochemistry in sciences.)</p>

6

<p>I was in the EXACT same spot as you at one point (ChE vs. BME).</p>

<p>I’ll try my best to clear this up better for you. The thread you posted bears some truth and is misleading in other ways. Truth: a BS in BME will not land you a position with the title of being an actual (biomedical) “engineer”. Mislead: this truth therefore seems to automatically infer that a BS in BME means no job at all.</p>

<p>Companies that hire biomedical engineers like Merck, Medtronic, Kodak, Minimed, Philips, etc. are only willing to allow people with graduate degrees (MS, preferably PhD) take on the responsibilities of designing/developing/engineering their products. So case in point: if you want to actually have the engineering position as a feasible backup, then you will need to have a graduate degree in BME, not (just) a BS.</p>

<p>Onto the misleading area - now, just because you only have a BS in BME doesn’t mean you won’t be able to find a job (though I will admit that it is definitely MUCH harder with just a BS). Don’t forget - these same companies that create biomedical products and hire biomedical engineers also need to sell their products. Who better to sell them than someone who actually knows what the heck the product does, its design, its function, its tweaks & nicks, how it works, etc. than someone with a BS in BME. Case in point: with just a BS in BME, you will only be able to land a non-technical position, most likely in sales. </p>

<p>Reason being is the fact that the voluminous amount of knowledge required to create a medical product that works efficiently and productively with the human body requires an EXTREMELY extensive amount of knowledge. A four year BME program is quite a joke, to be honest. You don’t learn much - you take a class here or there in bio/body/anatomy, a class here or there in chemistry & such, and the rest is in engineering. Four years just doesn’t give you enough time to truly understand the human body and then be able to create a product that works intuitively, dependably, and durably with the body. Many biomedical engineers actually even go onto medical school just so that they can learn more about the human body and how it works. I met one guy before, and he told me how when he started working with doctors to create a product (because they need doctors to consult with them about designing the products, since they’re only engineers and don’t know enough about the human body), the doctors would always give him crap about how he just didn’t know about how the human body worked and such - and so he proceeded to go to medical school just so that he could know.</p>

<p>My advice to you? Go with Chemical Engineering, if you like both equally, that is - imo, it’s too early for you to tell that you would even like chemical engineering (but it’s possible, I’m not denying that). A BS in chemical engineering will give you a great backup plan to medical school, in and of itself. Furthermore, if you chose to proceed further, you could get a MS/PhD in BME and that could instead be your backup to medical school - more choices, more variety & flexibility. Chemical engineering is a great degree to have at the moment, and will be for a long time.</p>

<p>My second advice to you? Don’t focus on having a backup. Once you focus on having a backup, then that’s when you start slacking - not acceptable for a pre-med. Having that knowledge and comfort of a cushion to catch you in case you fall will make you much more prone to fall. You have to have a strong & serious mentality. If you want to go medicine, then you gotta focus on medicine and you gotta have a “go hard or go home” mentality. Not to mention, majoring in engineering, you’re going to be MUCH more prone to leaning back on your cushion at certain times because of its difficulty.</p>

7

<p>I dont see how the job outlook can be bad whenever it has been ranked the fastest growing industry the past few years in a row.</p>

<p>Incorrect analysis. Job outlook is rated by percent increase. If there are only 5000 currently employed, and 5000 more are expected to be employed over the next 10 years, that’s a 100% employment increase! But do you think that 5000 would be enough to cover all the BME graduates coming out?</p>

<p>In this case, this is the exact reason as to why the “job outlook” looks so great yet finding a job seems difficult.</p>

<p>The second analysis to this is comparing the number of positions expected to become available verses the number of students graduating with a BME degree (a lot), over a specified time period. - And in this case, this again is another exact reason why the job outlook appears so great, yet finding a job seems difficult.</p>

8

<p>ok thanks engineerhead. I still have a year in college, when everyone does general engineering courses, to decide between BME and ChemE right? </p>

<p>Agreed that ChemE’s have a better job outlook right now, but if I’m sure that either I will go to med school or grad school for BME, then i guess my question is which one’s easier as an undergrad. BME or ChemE? or does it just depend on the person? </p>

<p>And will it help me to do 4 years of ChemE and then BME grad school as opposed to just 8 years of BME, you know like diversify my studies?</p>

<p>thanks</p>

9

<p>It depends if the intro courses provide insight into the distinction between the two (or rather, if it provides any insight into BME at all; usually it just covers the more major/common fields). It’ll definitely show you if ChE is for you, though.</p>

<p>Again, it depends where you go and the BME program on whether BME or ChE is harder. A great BME program is going to be VERY difficult because as I said earlier, there’s just so much you have to learn and understand to perform it. However, most undergrad BME programs aren’t great - you become more of a mediocre jack of all trades. Then, lastly as you pointed out, it depends on the person. In engineering, everything depends on the person. Electrical engineering could be what you consider the hardest engineering discipline and mechanical the easiest, but maybe that’s just cause you visualize things very easily and are better at conceptualizing tangible concepts (or the vice versa, maybe you’re horrible at conceptualizing and visualizing, but are great with strict computation and mathematical theories and therefore enjoy electrical).</p>

<p>I’ll start off with what’s best: ME. Mechanical Engineering would be the BEST field for you to go into to prepare for BME. ME would provide the best general foundation and allow you to specialize with great engineering skills already intact. I would not recommend ChE–>BME, but I won’t argue against it because that’s the exact route I was going to take despite my acknowledgment that it was not the optimum pathway.</p>

10

<p>EngH,</p>

<p>What would be your view about a student in chemistry going into chemical engineering for graduate school assuming the student has good math ability? Pre-med in Chem engineering is probably difficult for most aiming medical schools not to mention likely weak EC’s as a result of the heavy course load.</p>

11

<p>yea thats why im considerint BME again, the EC’s would be very weak since Chem E would take up soooo much time. </p>

<p>EngH you said that you were going to do ChemE–>BME. what did you do instead?</p>

12

<p>My view on Chemistry–>Chem Engr is that it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. Not in terms of academic ability, but simply because you won’t have a BS/background in engineering. You’d have to find unique schools or programs that would be lenient towards your non-engineering status or allow you to console perhaps through a short engineering program before entering. I don’t know much about this, I just know that for the most part it’s impossible. You typically don’t enter into a graduate engineering program with a non-engineering undergraduate degree.</p>

<hr>

<p>Biochem. I’m still in that stage, though, so who knows. As humans, we change our minds so much…</p>

13

<p>For some engineering field in some states at least, having an advanced degree in engineering without an UNDERGRADUATE degree in engineering will not qualify you as a practicing engineer. This is only true in the field of engineering which requires a license.</p>

<p>This is likely because the training for a MS/PhD program in engineering may be very different from that for a BS program, in the eyes of those who control the licensing procedure. A similar phenomenon actually happens between a BS degree and an AA degree from a community college. At least a few years ago, in some area, as long as you get a BS degree, you are no longer qualified for a “chip layout” technician job. This is because there is a union-like organization which controls the job market in that segment, and most companies do not want to get on the nerve of this union (which actually has some political power) by hiring an “over-qualified” applicant.</p>

<p>A lesson here: Depending on your career goal, more education may not always be good. You just need to receive a right level of education, and do very well at that level.</p>

<p>Think about a similar issue for a premed: is it somewhat also true that you mostly need to do well in INTRODUCTORY science classes, and doing well in the more advanced level classes is just icing on the cake but not an essential one. (i.e., an extreme case: the graduate-level GPA is not very useful for applying to medical schools.)</p>

14

<p>EngH,</p>

<p>You said “Again, it depends where you go and the BME program on whether BME or ChE is harder. A great BME program is going to be VERY difficult because as I said earlier, there’s just so much you have to learn and understand to perform it. However, most undergrad BME programs aren’t great - you become more of a mediocre jack of all trades.”</p>

<p>So, would you say that if one got into a top 5 BME school (I’m currently in HS), it would be worth it to go and major in BME? I’m going to apply to the top 5, and should get into at least one. I will be going to graduate school (or medical school), so I won’t be trying to get a job with only a BS (the gist of what I hear is that BME industry is a specialized field that mostly wants MSs or PHDs). It seems much of your advice/perspective/thoughts pertains to either a general population (not everyone can go to MIT or JHU or Duke, etc.) or just a BS in BME (which, again, is what I hear should be a stepping-stone into a graduate degree or MD if you’re trying to get ). I’m guessing you’re at VT, so I’m not sure how well-versed with BME in general you may be, but I’d appreciate your opinions on the topic.</p>

<p>Also, just FYI, BME jobs are set to grow from 16k in 2008 to 27.6k in 2018. For reference, ChemE jobs are set to drop from 32.7k in 2008 to 32k in 2018. From [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#projections_data]Engineers[/url”&gt;http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#projections_data]Engineers[/url</a>]. You and your silly 5k hypothetical ;)</p>

15

<p>Speaking in terms of an elite engineering program, I can’t say, so take the following only lightly.</p>

<p>I will be going to graduate school</p>

<p>If you go to graduate school for BME, again I would recommend ME as the foundational bachelors. BME is essentially a specialized mechanical engineering discipline geared towards the human body, and when you specialize in something, you must start with the basics/foundation. I don’t know what corporations think about BS in BME from top 5’s, and it may very well be that they respect them enough that they would allow a BS from one to take on the responsibilities of a biomedical engineer. However, in my personal opinion, I highly doubt it. Corporations are very wary in hiring someone with only a BS in BME (but like you said, this could possibly just be for “most” people). Like I said before, the gentleman I met even went to medical school after graduate school to learn more because the knowledge required is extraordinarily voluminous, so apparently even his graduate degree was not enough. Regardless, if you have no interest in ME, then my opinion for you is to just do it - go forward with BME. Would it be worth it? I don’t think it would be worth it if you just stop with 4 years of undergrad experience, but it would be worth it if 1) you got into med school or 2) proceeded onto graduate school. If I got into a top 5 BME program, would I take it? Yes I would. And you’re right, I was accepted to VT for engineering (had to stay in-state); I was originally going to go to UVa for their BME until I dove further into research & realized the difficulties with BS in BME, so I went to VT since their engineering is better (GO HOKIES!!). </p>

<p>Haha, and thanks for that. Numerically, my hypothetical increase was only 5k off :)</p>

16

<p>Cool, thanks for your response and perspective. I’ll hope I get into a top 5 BME, and I’ll probably go if I do. I’m not so worried about getting a job with just a BS in BME, since I won’t be entering the job market at that point.</p>

17

<p>All,</p>

<p>I searched the topic of engineering on the graduate forum. In general, it is not easy to go from Chemistry to graduate school in Chem Eng. But, for chemistry UG students with very good math ability/preparation, it is not that difficult to get in a graduate school in Chem Eng. I believe that this is also true for a BioChem UG student trying to get into a graduate school in biomedical engineering. You would probably have a better chance with a high GPA and two years of research experience. At least, you do not need to worry too much about your pre-med competitors with the 10 EC’s on norcalguy’s list. :wink: There are more discussion in the following links. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/784258-switching-science-engineering.html?highlight=biomedical+engineering[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/784258-switching-science-engineering.html?highlight=biomedical+engineering&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/976453-pure-chemistry-chemical-engineering.html?highlight=chemical+engineering[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/976453-pure-chemistry-chemical-engineering.html?highlight=chemical+engineering&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

18

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/784258-switching-science-engineering.html?highlight=biomedical+engineering[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/784258-switching-science-engineering.html?highlight=biomedical+engineering&lt;/a&gt;
Post #7

</p>

19

<p>ok. looks like i’ll go for BME and then let the GPA and MCAT scores determine if I go to med school or pursue a grad degree in BME.</p>