<p>My kids have had very positive experiences in honors at a large flagship. No bad vibes from those not in honors. Honors classes are best for the first 2 years. Once in ones major, your classmates will be ones who are in that major due to strengths and interests so no need for many honors versions.</p>
<p>UMD mom here…D1 was in the honors program, and turned down Gemstone (see countingdown’s comments above). She had a great freshman year experience in the honors dorm, and met several friends who had similar study habits and values, who she continued to hang out with throughout the rest of her 4 years there. She especially enjoyed the honors seminars, which she used to meet her remaining CORE requirements. MUCH more interesting classes, 18 people or less in each class, and usually many fewer traditional “tests” vs. discussions, papers, projects, etc. She completed her honors requirements earlier than most. By then she was involved in honors independent study within her major(s). In the grand scheme of things over the 4 years, the honors program was eclipsed by other things she accomplished via her own drive, but it was awesome for getting her started on the right foot.</p>
<p>D2 completed the Scholars program last year (junior year). She is much more community-service oriented, and is much less of a science/math geek. The scholars program, from the beginning, seemed like it was created just for her personality. It had much more of an identified “unit” within the scholars program, and she made several very close friends within her scholars program, with people interested in the same social issues. There was overlap with people who also were in her major (not required, but frequently occurs), and she had study groups in almost all her classes with people also in her scholars program. Although she was in the scholars dorm her freshman year, her floor was an “overflow” floor, meaning that all the people in her scholars program were assigned mostly to another floor, with just a few of them on her floor. The remaining rooms on her floor were filled with freshmen needing housing. It was …um…quite a bit wilder than her sister’s freshman dorm, and it took her longer to find people closer to her in study habits and non-interest in parties (those people went home for the first few weekends). However, that aside, it was a great experience…she was a Scholars Ambassador and was involved in several prospective student conferences and individual meetings.</p>
<p>Other activities and living/learning programs offered at UMD (as well as other large universities) also work to make a student feel “at home”. When on campus with D2 early in her sophomore year, we could not walk across campus without her knowing several people that we passed. </p>
<p>Feel free to come to the UMD site (or PM me) for other school-specific questions you have. It has been a great experience for my Ds.</p>
<p>Whether it is honors, scholars, or one of the other special programs at UMD (or any large university), I think one of the major advantages is that it helps to quickly make the students feel part of a smaller group and not just swimming in such a large number of students. They could feel anonymous if they chose to, but both daughters quickly got to know many students, faculty, and staff on campus through their programs, as well as a healthy dose of their own initiative.</p>
<p>I am in Texas and have seen brochures on programs from UT, A&M and U Houston. </p>
<p>UT admits top 9% in State but honors programs in UT are lot more selective (150 in Plan II, a small percentage in several already highly rated programs like business and engineering). They do get preferential housing, much smaller class sizes when it matters, i.e., during the pre major core classes which can end up having 500-1000 kids, choice research assignments, first to register etc. They do call Plan II program Ivy at UT for admitting cream of the crop. I do think the opportunities they are given in these programs allow them to go onto elite graduate programs.</p>
<p>UH lists all the different advantages listed by various members in one place.</p>
<p>[Benefits</a> of Being an Honors College Student](<a href=“http://www.uh.edu/honors/prospective-students/why-honors/benefits-honors-student/index.php]Benefits”>Benefits of Being an Honors College Student - University of Houston)</p>
<p>If someone is NM scholar (don’t know if they need to be texas resident) they offer the moon.</p>
<p>The University of Houston provides a comprehensive, all-expense scholarship (room, board, tuition, required fees, and textbook stipend) to students who are named National Merit Finalists and who list the University of Houston as their first choice according to the rules and deadlines established by the National Merit Scholarship Corporation.</p>
<p>D will be entering her sophomore year at Alabama & is in 2 of their honors programs (University Honors & International Honors.) Yes, she has a lot of the perks mentioned earlier: honors housing, early registration, full NMF scholarship. I think the experience at an Honors College depends on the student. D is a humanities major vs. STEM. She has chosen to take a lot of honors classes (both departmental honors and Honors College.) In her freshman year she took 18 credits of Honors classes. That’s the minimum you need to take to officially graduate with the honors distinction; apparently some kids struggle trying to complete that many honors classes but that’s not the case in my house. She loves those small seminars (classes under 15 students most of the time) but as I said she’s a humanities kid and has more flexibility than a STEM major.</p>
<p>Because UA is generous with AP credits, she’s already at junior status. She used the AP credits to complete the requirements for classes that she never wanted to see again (Chemistry) and was able to jump over lower level classes in her major (History) to get into 200 & 300 level classes. They have a University Scholars program that allows motivated students to apply to graduate programs while an undergrad; she’s exploring that now.</p>
<p>The honors college personnel are really interested in the kids. 1st semester of school, she ended up having dinner/BBQ with other students at the homes of 2 of the program directors/deans. Nice. She got involved in the honors college. And she took part in a wonderful honors study abroad program this summer. 19 students, 4 professors. With daily walks through Oxford that tied to their literature readings. Priceless. And if we had been paying our EFC at other schools, it would have been impossible for us to fund. </p>
<p>I asked her point blank back in November if she thought she’d made the right choice. She can be a little particular when it comes to her fellow classmates & I was wondering if she was disappointed that she hadn’t chosen a higher ranked school. She said it was absolutely the right choice, but if there weren’t the honors options she’d probably have felt differently.</p>
<p>My son is in the Honors College at Clemson and he loves it. He started out in their EUREKA program which allowed him to do engineering research the summer before his freshman year. He lived in the Honors dorm which gave him a sense of community, built in study groups (nothing formal that the HC set up but rather there were lots of kids taking the same classes and they started studying together . . . it gave my son some structure that, quite frankly, he needed.) During his first 2 years he took a number of Honors courses that challenged him. (Some of his regular courses he found too easy but was happy with his As!) They are smaller in size than the regular courses and most covered more interesting material than the non-Honors sections. He loved the experiential aspect of most of this Honors classes - he much prefers learning by doing.</p>
<p>The Honors College at Clemson offers so much more than just different classes and a dorm. He has continued working on research and has co-authored 2 published articles. He plans to present his research at a conference this year and the Honors College has a fund to pay for students to attend conferences. They also have a fund to support students during the summer do do research, internships, or service projects. My son hasn’t taken advantage of that but his friends have and loved the opportunity.</p>
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<p>That has not been my son’s experience at all. He and his friends are involved in all sorts of campus organizations - student government, musical groups, Habitat for Humanity, intramural athletics, and yes, even sororities and fraternities. At Clemson, Honors students are involved in everything, often as leaders, and as far as I know not treated any differently than the rest. </p>
<p>We did look a several Honors Colleges when my son was deciding where to go to school and they are all different (just like universities themselves). And I like the advice above that you should like the whole university, not just the Honors College.</p>
<p>And as much as my son loves being at a relatively large public university with all that includes, my daughter who will be a senior this year and is now looking at colleges, wants the opposite - a smaller place that is more artsy and less rah-rah. Onward and upward!!</p>
<p>I dont have much to share of specifics except to say my S walked away from a full ride scholarship in the UNC Honors Program. We visited after the offer, loved the campus and wanted to love and accept it. Alas he didnt. Two reasons: A sophomore there who had gone to my Son’s high school and was a year ahead told him that, compared to their college prep school, UNC was a cakewalk…and a junior in the honors program told him that all the program got them was first enrollment in the Honors classes, but after that, anyone could enroll up to the course maximum enrollment–the end result being a dummying down of the classroom experience. So based on these two comments, S turned it down and chose Pomona believing the academic rigor would be more to his liking. Only time will tell–and no doubt others have very positive things to say about the UNC program.</p>
<p>What wonderful information you have all shared! Can anyone share experiences they know of from the Honors College at the University of South Carolina? I was sad to hear for non-stem kids that an honors college experience at lesser ranked state flagships was not really valued by potential future employers. Although the experience may be great, if it doesn’t lead to that great job after graduation can it really be the right choice?</p>
<p>Sent from my ADR6300 using CC App</p>
<p>Great information; thanks everyone! One thing emerging from this thread is that the “college is what you make of it” mantra seen often on CC is even truer for the Honors student at a large public U. I’m impressed with the descriptions of your children on this thread; they seem to have made the most of the opportunities offerred them as well as negotiated the particular challenges of being part of an often very large population.</p>
<p>One thing that I always worried about for an honors program was the kind of students that go to a large public U vs. another U with higher academics all around. Would you get the same education or are you better off with a top school that has an “honors program” for everyone because they’re all smart?</p>
<p>For me personally, I prefer the better overall education rather than a small program for smart kids in a bigger institution, which I know everyone can’t afford. Plus, really smart kids think on a different level than other people, so I think they’d be happier in a school where they can relate to the majority of their peers.</p>
<p>What is everybody else’s thoughts on this?</p>
<p>Kpatter-
My son is a sophomore at the South Carolina Honors College and loves it. Many, many positive aspects to it. Class size is limited to 15. They will bend over backwards to make sure the honors students get the educational experience they want. PM me if you have specific questions.</p>
<p>Sent from my SCH-I500 using CC App</p>
<p>megan12, off the top of my head, I would think it comes down to affordability and social culture. For smart kids who want a big school with the often-corrollating rah-rah, sports-rich, Greek life atmosphere, an Honors college at Big State U is a great combo. And, of course, we know that many of those small, smart LACs are super pricey and offer little or no merit aid for the middle class and/or high EFC family.</p>
<p>^^^ that would be our situation…both the affordability and the social culture peice.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, S’ desired college culture is small, not too fratty, not too rah rah. We’re having trouble finding him that academic, financial, and cultural safety within his narrow geographic boundaries. But that’s a topic for another thread :-)</p>
<p>Can anyone else share their experience at an Honors College?</p>
<p>What about Pitt, which seemed a little different when I visited with D1?</p>
<p>Or, more info about Schreyer?</p>
<p>My son loves his university (UAB) sci tech program. They admit about 50-60 kids per year…these students have a class together every semester, all begin dorm life on an honors floor (after freshman year they choose whatever dorm they want). The program emphasizes research and son has been doing research since his first month at the school. They have multiple special events and opportunites just for these students. The usual perks like registration and housing priority.</p>
<p>There are 3 other honors colleges that work the same way. UAB is rolling admission with automatic merit aid based on gpa and test score (deadline dec 1) Total of about 11K undergrads (17K students total).</p>
<p>[10</a> Reasons to Skip the Expensive Colleges on Shine](<a href=“http://shine.yahoo.com/event/backtoschool/10-reasons-to-skip-the-expensive-colleges-2518407]10”>http://shine.yahoo.com/event/backtoschool/10-reasons-to-skip-the-expensive-colleges-2518407)</p>
<p>**
9. Going to an elite university does not guarantee success.**</p>
<p>To prove this point, Hacker and Dreifus tracked the 900-odd students who graduated from Princeton in 1973 to see if the school was delivering on its promise “to prepare students for positions of leadership,” whether in business, public service, or the arts, which Princeton administrators claim as their goal. “We were very disappointed,” Hacker says. “There were only a handful of recognized names in that class of 900. What that tells us is simply this: In America, if you put your talents to their best use, by the age of 35 or 36, you’ll be passing people from Princeton, no matter where you went to school.” Sure, the authors acknowledge, a designer degree might help you get into medical school or law school at Harvard, Stanford, or Yale. That’s a nice bonus if you can pay the full sticker price, they say, but not enough of an edge to saddle your child with many thousands of dollars in debt.</p>
<p>**
10. Honors colleges at public universities can offer as fine an education as the Ivy League.**</p>
<p>The honors colleges at City University of New York, Arizona State, and the University of Mississippi, to name a few, offer the intimacy of a liberal arts college at state-school prices. “These students get first pick of classes and have special classes to themselves, and at Arizona State, they have their own dorms,” Dreifus says. “We met students in those honors colleges who got into Harvard and other elite schools, but they said they didn’t want to burden their parents with that kind of expense. Now that’s a smart kid.”</p>
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<p>One thing that I always worried about for an honors program was the kind of students that go to a large public U vs. another U with higher academics all around. Would you get the same education or are you better off with a top school that has an “honors program” for everyone because they’re all smart?</p>
<p>I don’t think so. If you’re in a serious major, then your classmates are going to be smart no matter where you go. When my kids are taking Cal III or OChem II or Differential Equations, guess what? Their classmates are smart, too. </p>
<p>You’re making a common mistake. You’re assuming that at large schools with honors colleges that very smart kids are equally spread amongst all majors and in all classes. They’re not. They’re largely concentrated in about 10 majors…engineering, math, hard sciences, business, challenging humanities, etc. </p>
<p>And these high-stats kids are largely concentrated in the harder classes. These kids aren’t taking classes with kids who need sub100 math or sub100 English. Many of these smart kids aren’t even taking Cal I or II because they’ve skipped them with AP credits…they’re heading right to Cal III where you’re not going to find many/any “average joes”. There’s no “dumbing down” of these harder classes…no need to. </p>
<p>When people voice the concern that a campus may have some low stats kids on it, I ask them, "Why do you care about some kids in easier majors who are in buildings across the campus? How does that affect you? </p>
<p>And, do you really care if some fabulous artist or performing artist has a very modest test score? How does that hurt you? Some majors are so “right-brained” that a test score won’t reflect their strengths. Do you care if some fab writer can’t muster a Math SAT above 580? </p>
<p>My kids are/were Math and Chemical Engineering majors (one has graduated). Their school has a fab honors college. Do you really think that their classmates are/were lowish stats kids? If a lowish stats kid attempted these the classes/pre-reqs required for these majors, he/she would be changing majors rather soon. </p>
<p>The nice thing about a well run honors program with lots of course offerings is that even courses in your major are going to be filled with high stats kids. </p>
<p>That said, not all honors colleges are very good. I know that the ones at Penn State, ASU, Alabama, Ole Miss, South Carolina and a few others are very good. </p>
<p>My guess would be…if a school’s upper quartile is ACT 30 or above, then the honors college and other challenging classes are going to have a lot of smart kids in them. An ACT 30 is 96th percentile. </p>
<p>I also like the fact that many of these state schools are quite generous with AP credits which enables kids to move right into 200/300 level classes by having soph/junior standing right away. This allows a student to take more 300/400 level courses within their 4 years of undergrad. It also allows a student to more easily do a double major or extra minors or just take some classes just for self-interest (both my kids have taken classes in second foreign language (Italian) for fun.)</p>
<p>*For me personally, I prefer the better overall education rather than a small program for smart kids in a bigger institution, which I know everyone can’t afford. Plus, really smart kids think on a different level than other people, So I think they’d be happier in a school where they can relate to the majority of their peers.</p>
<p>What is everybody else’s thoughts on this? *</p>
<p>Hold on there. Are you suggesting that smart kids can’t relate to relate to students with lower test scores than they have (and shouldn’t learn how to relate to such students)? Will your kids be existing in a high-IQ world their whole lives? </p>
<p>Your words sadly suggest that you think that students with more average test scores have little/nothing to offer your child in conversation or whatever. Don’t you realize that students with “average scores” often excel at things that your child can only dream about? </p>
<p>I can tell you this…my very smart eldest child learned a lot of “walking around common sense stuff” from a couple of his “lower stats friends”. He also improved on his social skills.</p>
<p>I just helped this son move into his grad school apt at an elite school. Yes…very smart kids with little “walking around” smarts. I had to show 3 kids how to load and use a dishwasher (no they weren’t foreign) and I had to show one that you have to turn the end of the Windex bottle to “open” in order for it to spray. That’s not even the half of it. One couldn’t tell the difference between the washers and dryers in the laundry room (had sent laundry out in undergrad). Being highly intelligent has its limitations, too.</p>
<p>Funny last paragraph-M2Ck. May I guess -no they weren’t foreign- just male.</p>
<p>As I told M2CK privately, that wasn’t exactly what I meant…</p>
<p>Do all (most) of these programs have an accepted students day or similar? I’m trying to figure out how DD would decide which to pick if she were fortunate enough to have more than one honors college acceptance. We’ve visited the southern schools with these programs once, and that was what made her decide to go that route… but how to actually pick one?</p>
<p>dont know if uab was one of your southern schools… but has excellent honors programs…and they do have accepted student days… another thing to do is if you go to visit the schools, arrange a meeting with the dean of the program/honors college… uab sci/tech’s Dr Tucker is incredible. and they can arrange sitting in on classes, talking to profs, meeting with students in the program etc.</p>