<p>Can a student at the Naval Academy can be assured of being assigned to a ship rather than to a submarine? If not, are there any characteristics that the Navy would look for in selecting students for submarines?</p>
<p>Well, yes and no.</p>
<p>This is a complex subject with MUCHO written about it. Gets into many gray areas …voluntoldism, majors, height, and on and on.</p>
<p>My suggestion? Discourage a rehash on this thread. Do a search of recent posts on this. They are many, pithy and offer much insight and information and a wide diversity of views on this. And this is a timely question with many new subs authorized for construction, commission. Great opportunities for many, including women.</p>
<p>PM Bill, mombee, Memphis and some others. They seem to know what they’re talking about and will give you insights and info that will help to answer your question.</p>
<p>And visit the other sight. </p>
<p>A little homework on your part will offer a wealth of information, insight and opinion.</p>
<p>sub= more laid back and more opportunities after your committment with your marketable skills as a nuclear engineer… swo- no special skills, community consists of “look,look,look,stab, stab,look”…you’ll find out what this means later…in short, if given the choice between subs and swo, i would pick subs every day and 2x on sunday</p>
<p>1390hopeful,</p>
<p>Define special skills.
Correct me if I am wrong, but there is a SWO Nuclear option – they do serve on CVNs as well.</p>
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<p>Yes and no.</p>
<p>Subs are more laid back on a social level, but are far more intense when it comes to training and demands.</p>
<p>SWOs are, sadly, a community not entirely unfairly known for backstabbing and eating their young. That said, “no special training” is far from true. You don’t drive multi-billion dollar warships and operate their systems with just what you learned over in Luce Hall.</p>
<p>I wanted to go subs. BADLY. Unfortunately, I DIDN’T STUDY HARD ENOUGH. My own damned fault. :(</p>
<p>Now, as to the OP’s question, only recently did I hear that some people were FORCED to go submarines (lucky bastards). That was unheard of in my day. Back then, you ended up SWO either by choice, because you didn’t qualify for anything else, or because your Merit ranking was so low that all the good stuff was gone by the time you got there. I don’t know if that has changed any over the (numerous) years since I did Service Selection.</p>
<p>I still can’t watch “Crimson Tide” without getting teary-eyed. What an idiot I was. :(</p>
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Most of the eaten young are probably not all that undeserving.</p>
<p>SWO is minimum commitment with minimum effort. It is the haven for the "five and dives’. It is the least restrictive community. No one is forced to go aviation or subs because they cannot qualify for the SWO program. These are the ones who seem to, deservedly so most often, get eaten. The hard chargers who hit the deck plates running seem to do well. They may hit a few roadblocks along the way but if they want to succeed, they will. So, while still in their 30s, when their aviation classmates are in charge of a few airplanes, really nothing more than glorified carrier department heads, they have their own destroyer to play with.</p>
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<p>Often true, but not always, unfortunately. Take a look at the recent issue with Captain Graff, who destroyed more than one promising career for no other reason than she was a _itch.</p>
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<p>Correct, although some folks do go into SWO because they really desire to, and more power to them. </p>
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<p>Amen. Attitude isn’t everything, but it’s enough of it that a good one can make up for a LOT of external factors. Also, with the advent of more and smaller vessels, the opportunities for an early command these days are LIGHT YEARS ahead of those that existed when the Fleet was comprised of Carriers, Cruisers, and Destroyers (that were as big as the cruisers). There are opportunities in today’s SWO community that we could have only dreamed of in my day, not to mention you will be playing with some VERY nifty and modern toys that were just on the drawing board.</p>
<p>Ah, to be young again! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Yes, nuke swo does exist. I selected it. Then they opened subs up to women. I am no longer nuke swo now. Haha, subs or bust. I would recommend going for the nuclear background no matter which you choose, but one of the reasons I chose nuke swo was for the possibility of going subs, and that opportunity just happened to come much sooner rather than later. And YES, you can be forced to go subs. Those with high grades in technical majors are targeted first, but they capture some humanities too. I have a friend still trying to find every way to become a pilot he can despite being scheduled for my nuke school date. This doesn’t happen to many though.</p>
<p>If I were to do the Navy, I would choose subs over anything. Actually, I was debating about doing the Navy just for that reason (I wanted to do something for the military, but I’m debating it now). Yet, my parents do not want me to do subs. My uncle, who is ex-Navy, did submarines for 6 months at a time. Although it is very hard work and very boring at times, I guess it was worth it. He said it would probably be bad for women because many men start to become “aggressive” as they’re literally undersea for long periods of time. Not much communication, and some become crazy. This is his experience, though, so don’t take my story for granted. I would still choose subs over a ship because I think there would be more going on, and you would have an experience that nobody else had.</p>
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<p>And this matters because…? Do what YOU want. It’s YOUR life!</p>
<p>I can’t say enough cool stuff about subs. I love the damned things even if my experience on them is (regrettably) shorter than I would have liked. I was on a boomer long enough and worked hard enough to earn my Silver Dolphins (and yes, I EARNED them; I still have the Qual Card!).</p>
<p>Something to ponder: If you are contemplating serving on subs, then my recommendation is to get yourself on a boomer cruise during your Youngster Summer. There’s no better way to find out if subs are for you than to get on one and disappear for ten weeks. ;)</p>
<p>That’s what I did, and I ended up LOVING IT. :D</p>
<p>Of course, it takes a certain… kinda weird… breed for subs. If you are even remotely claustrophobic, either get over it or select somethign else. If the idea of diving deep in a steel tube and hearing the hull creek and groan (and seeing it shrink) as the pressure builds up on it freaks you out, then I recommend something else. If the idea of operating in an environment where there is ZERO margin for error gives you the willies, then choose something else.</p>
<p>Oh, and if you don’t like studying, DEFINITELY choose something else! ;)</p>
<p>OTOH, if you’re smart, dedicated, disciplined, kinda crazy, and the idea of driving a submarine into shallow waters under the ice in order to snoop on the enemy 200 miles inside their waters with no hope of rescue of escape if things go bad and then not being able to tell anyone about it later gets your heart pumping, then GO FOR IT! :D</p>
<p>Remember! The only REAL marine, is a SUBmarine! The only REAL corps, is a REACTOR core! :D</p>
<p>I envy you guys. You still have the chance to make it and you have someone like me warning you to STUDY. Don’t make the same mistakes I made. :(</p>
<p>Maybe God will let me be a submariner in His Navy someday. Maybe… :(</p>
<p>XCI …great word pix! 
And appreciate your candor.</p>
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<p>My pleasure. Sort of…</p>
<p>It was a miserable day, and I remember every detail of it, sitting in my Company Officer’s office reading the letter “We regret to inform you…”, then walking back to my room.</p>
<p>I sat in my room in a dumb stupor, unable to do anything but stare in disbelief at the letter and blame myself for not having done more when I had the chance. It was one of those moments in your life where something suddenly becomes crystal-clear, only this time it was too late. I almost sat through Noon Meal Formation, uncaring if I got fried for UA. My roommate had to drag me out…</p>
<p>If I can help even ONE Midshipman avoid that kind of an experience, one that still haunts me 20 years later, then maybe I’ll have done something good with my earlier stupidity after all. As the poster says, “Maybe your purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.”</p>
<p>Yours is courageous and genuine counsel. Opportunities lost/missed are often among the most challenging to confront and learn from. Yours have not been wasted if someones hear and in your presence might “get it” that indeed, this is a one-time chance of a lifetime not to be squandered on video games, ipods, hanging out, or whatever the diversion from that which will enable us.</p>
<p>Your honor remains so nicely intact. Well done.</p>
<p>How much do you have to study?</p>
<p>It never ends. Just ask any JO assigned to a submarine. Even after Nuke school and follow-on training, there are pop quizzes on the sub pretty frequently - at least according to some JO’s I knew many moons ago. I tend to doubt that the practice has changed much.</p>
<p>So usually people who do submarine know lots of technical stuff?</p>
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<p>Yes. Folks who serve on submarines, officers and enlisted alike, are among the brightest and most highly-trained people in the Fleet.</p>
<p>All officers go through Nuclear Power School, right alongside the enlisted guys who will be working back aft. Nuclear Power School has been compared to drinking from a fire hose and not being able to spill a drop. It is one TOUGH course, and I’ve even heard it compared to having a Master’s in Nuclear Physics. Let’s just say that it’s nice to have on a resume.</p>
<p>Then, on top of it all, when you report aboard your boat (submarines are boats, not ships) you are handed a list of qualifications that you are REQUIRED to complete. Period. Last I heard, ESWS (Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist) was optional in the Surface Fleet. IT AIN’T aboard a submarine. A lot of crew activities such as movies are forbidden to crewmembers who have not yet achieved their qualifications.</p>
<p>To get those qualifications, the individual has to have a fairly comprehensive understanding of what makes the boat tick, including propulsion, weapons, sensors, and auxiliaries.</p>
<p>During your qualification board(s), it is very common to get a question such as, “I am a particle of water outside the boat. Get me in and then back out as a particle of carbon dioxide.”, or “I am en electron in the reactor. How do I get to your bunk light?” The answer involves tracing systems step by step, and handing one system off to the other. If you don’t know it, it’s back to the study program with you, and God forbid you fall delinquent on your qual schedule, because then even your rack time gets mandated.</p>
<p>There was no equivalent attitude in the Surface Fleet when I was in. I hope that has changed.</p>
<p>One point, however, is that surface officers are required to get their SWO qualification if they want to have ANY chance of making LT or advancing their careers. The qualification process is similar to what the enlisted guys on subs go through, only with administrative officer BS thrown in. </p>
<p>I found the shipboard submarine training program far more effective than my SWO training program. It’s been what… 23 years?.. and I bet I could still draw a fairly reasonable piping diagram of the Trim and Drain System of a LAFAYETTE-class submarine.</p>
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<p>I highly doubt it. Rickover’s influence is alive and well around Naval Reactors, and why shouldn’t it be? With a safety and performance record like the one the Nuclear Navy has built up, why mess with what works?</p>
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<p>I’m speechless (for once). </p>
<p>Thanks. :)</p>
<p>^^That sounds very difficult. I probably wouldn’t do that especially since I want to major in IR haha.</p>
<p>Your desire to major in IR (which I will assume is International Relations) hardly precludes you from either a) applying, b) getting accepted, or c) passing the program. Remember that everyone from USNA graduates with a BS degree.</p>
<p>If you want it, go for it. :)</p>
<p>Oh, and yes… It’s very difficult for me to be speechless. ;)</p>