<p>I do think the culture helped to shape the delusion, but it is not responsible for it. </p>
<p>A child with an autism spectrum disorder, for example, would have a great deal of trouble finding a place to fit in that environment, which could lead to many of the feelings he describes having when he was growing up. I can’t imagine raising a child who is socially-challenged in a “Real Housewives” world. (Actually, I can’t imagine raising any child in that world, or living there myself…but that’s just reflective of my own value structure and comfort level.) </p>
<p>Then, at some point, the delusional thinking just took over. If you read the “manifesto”, you can almost feel the shift from bewildered little kid to irrationally angry teenager.</p>
<p>In the past 40 years of my life since college, I 've known a lot of people, from peers, family, classmates, acquaintances who had some really rough spots in their lives. Some had their parents helping them out, supporting them at the level of those in the family socio eco, some thrown out in the streets as family just could not, would not deal with them. Most of them, I am happy to say, pulled it together sufficiently so that they are passing muster as doing okay despite doing stints in rehab, psych wards, jails, halfway houses, shelters, crack houses. The few that are dead, disappeared or truly are doing poorly tend to be the ones NOT as well supported by family. As much as we love to say pouring that money onto the kids cause the problem, I can tell you unequivocally that parental support, monetary included and success of their children are very much related. My DH rankles when I say this, but it is absolutely true, and I don’t like it either.</p>
<p>It might have taken him longer but he certainly could have gotten the guns if he were so focused. I actually am amazed at how little damage he did given how much that could have been done in this case. It appears that he was getting mental health treatment and whoever was involved did not commit him as a danger to himself and others. Why? Don’t know. I don’t blame the parents because it appears that they were concerned, involved and working with professionals in the mental health field in trying to help their son. Unless more info comes out that they were not doing as told and ignoring what these experts were saying, I 'm going to say that they were walking the line on a very precarious edge and hoping that those specializing in these issues would be able to guide them and their son as safely as possible. Frankly, from what gather from the reports, they did not know what to do to the point that they were letting others guide them that were supposed to know. I think that young man should have been in some type of lock up and I think the parents thought that too, and it was the pros that did not so think.</p>
<p>Actually, outpatient mental health professionals aren’t required to report even the most serious mental health diagnoses. The only time they are required to report is when they reasonably suspect danger to self or to others. And the “others” usually must take the form of an identifiable victim, though I’m sure statements of intent to shoot a crowd would qualify. The report in these instances would take the form of a call to authorities rather than entering anything into a database.</p>
<p>The gun database reporting laws are triggered when there is a psychiatric hospitalization, which in this case had not occurred. </p>
<p>But this does raise something I’ve been wondering about. The manifesto talks about a very brief (one-day) job obtained through Regional Center. To get services through RC, testing and a diagnosis IS required. I could be wrong, but I think a diagnosis of Aspergers alone wouldn’t be enough to qualify for RC services. </p>
<p>So if he actually was a Regional Center client (and didn’t, say, just have a RC friend who tried to help out), he must have some testing and a diagnosis. </p>
<p>Exactly! He had to have a diagnosis because he was prescribed Risperidone. Yet, we are hearing there was no diagnosis. This is not a medicine usually given to someone who is just a little off. And, he refused to take it. At that point something else needed to happen. Maybe it did, but it sure doesn’t sound that way.</p>
<p>Very good question, Calla. I remember reading about that job. It was janitorial, and ER thought it beneath him, of course.<br>
Another job he briefly held was helping a family friend build a staircase in a home. He liked that job, and at one point asked that family friend if he had any more work for him.</p>
<p>I suppose everyone is in CYA mode (police, “counselors,” psychiatrist, Regional Center), etc. Probably none can be held accountable because of the very long leashes legally allowed, so therefore nothing will change. </p>
<p>" I suppose everyone is in CYA mode (police, “counselors,” psychiatrist, Regional Center), etc"</p>
<p>Yes. Yes. Yes. And family goes on that list as well. The initial statement from the family attorney reeked of it. And, I am not blaming them one bit. Just stating facts.</p>
<p>@actingmt I’m not expecting anything from the police per se, I am just wondering if protocols they likely followed might be tweaked in the future with benefit. I am also open to the idea this might be one of those things you can’t really prevent, barring making society a police state.</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl, maybe people just don’t WANT what is proposed by some over and over, no matter how many times it is proposed. Perhaps it is just not a logical premise to others who actually value access to guns or even just people who value being able to make their own choices as a general matter. Clearly it is easy to call for limits on something you don’t personally value. But because people don’t do what you want doesn’t mean they didn’t listen, they might just not think it is the right thing to do. </p>
<p>And demonizing people who disagree with you as ‘wanting to keep their guns to feel like real men’ is further emotional manipulation and not logic. Those who benefit most from concealed carry laws are those who are most typically victims - women and the elderly. I’m a woman myself and not part of any ‘gun culture’ but I do believe it is wrong of some to limit all because they aren’t comfortable guns exist. I think some things make logical sense and others do not, and trying to push things when people are grieving is intended to shove through stuff people would not otherwise go for - while they are hurting. I think that is kind of lousy.</p>
<p>@Goldenpooch the parents didn’t know he had tried to push anyone off a balcony. He said they pushed him when he was ‘cocky’ towards them. His manifesto, released right before the murder spree, says otherwise and the police suspected otherwise, but his family believed he was being bullied. The family attorney’s statement even mentioned that incident as one where he was bullied to the point where he obviously finally snapped. They were not getting the true story, he played them. And he had planned to borrow his Dad’s Mercedes SUV for the killing because he wanted to mow students down who typically walk in the streets there on Friday nights, in the manner of Main Street USA at Disneyland resort. He thought it would do more damage. I think he didn’t want to go home because whatever he said, he didn’t really want to kill his family and he was contemplating that he righteously ‘should’ kill his kid half brother, who might grow up to be more popular than he was. But yeah, brand names meant a ton to him, he had no self esteem (nor reason to have self esteem, that I can tell, although my reasons for thinking that are different from his.) He was a wanna be climber, not an overly privileged kid. The culture he couldn’t really keep up with in the entertainment industry might have played into his lack of self esteem, but it did so because no matter how he tried to accumulate possessions he saw as the badges of superiority, no one considered him part of the cool group. His manifesto even speaks of how furious he was after learning to skateboard and bleaching his hair etc that people didn’t recognize how ‘cool he was now’. He was MANY things, but sick is definitely one of the things he was.</p>
<p>Creatine isn’t heroine or something like that silly NY Post article implies. People don’t “turn to creatine to drown their feelings.” From WebMD: “Creatine is a chemical that is normally found in the body, mostly in muscles. It is made by the body and can also be obtained from certain foods. Fish and meats are good sources of creatine.”</p>
<p>I’ve utilized creatine to push through plateaus and so have many of my friends and mood swings and depression have never been on the radar. It sounds more like this kid was experimenting with juice (steroids) and his friend didn’t know about it, which isn’t at all shocking as most people try to keep any steroid use close to the chest.</p>
<p>A basic question: Once the counselor and the mother saw the manifesto did they call the Santa Barbara police? I know the parents drove up there but calling would have been faster. </p>
<p>How often did the parents visit him in IV? Obviously, he was an adult but when a young man like this is mentally off, someone needs to take responsibility and that has to be the parents. It seems to me that like the parents of the VT shooter they ship the young man off to college and out of their hair. </p>
<p>Tatin - I think the answer to your basic question is no. Here’s why: According to reports, they heard about the shooting on the car radio during the drive and were assured by the therapist that it was likely not Elliot because he was a planner and the day of “retribution” was tomorrow. Simply, they thought they had more time.</p>
<p>@Fatsquirrel that is interesting since one of the message boards where he posted was a bodybuilding site, per both his manifesto and the media. I wondered what on earth he would be doing there, but I guess he was going for the body to match the BMW and just hadn’t had much luck yet.</p>
<p>@TatinG I believe one of his counselors who had the manifesto emailed called the parents and the media version I saw said they called 911 in Santa Barbara then each started driving up in separate cars. I haven’t seen any follow up on that supposed 911 call, and it might have been an error.</p>
<p>Also, I do kind of think the parents might have been relieved to ship him off to Santa Barbara and might have sent money in part out of guilt. I don’t know that I entirely blame them, they didn’t know what to do, had tried making him get a job, had tried sending him to two local colleges, and didn’t know what to do next. But yeah, there were times his Mom said he had to go the summer before to ‘get acclimated’ and another time she didn’t want him staying in her house while she was gone, and the father and step mother kicked him out periodically for long periods once he was 18. I suspect they were glad to have a possible panacea of going to school in friendly, blonde Santa Barbara where he might have a perfect life – although I think it would have to take a lot of closing their eyes willfully to think he would have more social success there, magically, given his real issues. But they had tried so many things, I can sympathize with them not knowing what to do next with this almost 20 year old.</p>
<p>I honestly think his lease on time might have been running out. His family might have been seeking other options since this ‘wasn’t working out’ and he doesn’t mention what they might have been, but I bet they were under consideration at this point.</p>
<p>I guess I don’t know that someone has to take responsibility, though. I’d have to think about that. For how long is a parent responsible? Forever? </p>
<p>Well, if there was a 911 call before the incident that raises police questions that haven’t been raised. The Sherriff was on national news shows this weekend and it was all about the April visit. Someone should be asking what they did after they got the 911 call if that happened. hmmm.</p>
<p>We now have him trying to push people off balconies and cliffs. Imagine though that your 22 yr old son gets drunk and gets in a pushing match with other drunks on a ledge that is 10 ft off the ground. He’s the one who ends up with a broken ankle. He then gets dragged into a driveway and beaten up. Admittedly this is his side of the story but no one seems to dispute that he broke his ankle and was beaten up. Do you automatically take from this that your son is a danger to others or do you see him as a danger to himself? </p>
<p>They didn’t think he was a danger to others until the manifesto. A family friend also said the person in the video was not anything like the ER that they all knew. They were shocked.</p>
<p>I’m not dismissing the creatine angle yet, but the article does make you wonder about other substances. Steroids or the testosterone supplements could, I suppose, contribute to aggressiveness. I don’t know how they would affect a paranoid/schizophrenic person, which he seems to have been, at least to a degree. But it probably wouldn’t be a positive.</p>
<p>If he was taking any of these illegally, it likely will never come to light, as the gym-linked underground distribution network is unlikely to be interested in exposing itself to prosecution for the sake of explaining a crime. </p>