Should a Humanities kid pursue medicine?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>Hi all! I am new here. I have a S who is a freshman in college. I need advice on how to advise him. He has always wanted to be an Emergency Medicine Dr since I can remember. He was 3 years old and when I took him to a book store to pick out a book he came to me with this HUGE EMT book that he could barely carry.... for a long time he took that book wherever he went and read it so many times it was about a sad a book as you have ever seen.</p>

<p>Anyway, he pretty much has stuck to his guns on being a Dr. He is an Eagle Scout, has worked as an EMT and Search and rescue team at a national park, and is an EMT at his college, where no freshman has ever gotten that job in the past, and just got accepted to be a trip leader in the outdoor club. He is also a Wilderness EMT. He has hiked the entire Pacific Coast Trail at 18 years old. He was the youngest and 5th fastest to ever finish. He is also an avid rock climber and has climbed El Capitan, Whitney( east side), the highest peak in Mexico, and Mt Rainer. So as far as being a compelling applicant I think he has that covered.</p>

<p>Here is the problem. He really isn't thrilled with Chem. He took Bio and Chem his first semester, as well as 2 other classes, which I thought was brutal for first semester of college. He is also NOT a math kid. He ended up with a 89 in Bio, a 95 in the 2 Humanities classes, and a 78 in Chem. He said that as much as he struggled in Chem, he can't imagine NOT doing pre-med and NOT being a Dr. I am a little conflicted because I feel like if he doesn't really like Chem, than maybe he is facing an uphill battle. I told him to talk to his pre-med advisor, but to not make any rash decisions until after this semester of Bio and Chem 2. You never know.. he might get an inspirational chem teacher.. any suggestions or advice would be most appreciated.</p>

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<p>First of all, </p>

<p>Med Schools are very open and accepting of humanities/non-science majors. I am not sure if you know about this, but the new MCAT in 2015 will have a psychology/sociology/behavioral science section and a verbal reasoning section that includes some humanities passages. There has to be a reason they are changing the test to accommodate those subjects.</p>

<p>Also, lower division college science classes DO NOT represent what a medical school curriculum is like AT ALL. Most lower div classes are just weeders with general information about a subject plus an unforgiving grade distribution. Biochemistry in Medical School is nothing like Biology and Chemistry as lower division classes.</p>

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<p>There’s definitely a place in medicine for humanities kids.(One of D1’s med school classmate has a music composition & theory degree. Others have degrees in Spanish, English Lit, history….)</p>

<p>But…and you knew this was coming, right……These humanities kids also have to have some pretty good science chops. Your son doesn’t have to luuuuuuurve science & math (although will make his life as a pre med soooo much easier), but he does have to be good at it.</p>

<p>It sounds like he’s had rough start with his sciences. A B+ in Bio and C+ in Chem? </p>

<p>The bad news is that chemistry is only gets harder from here.</p>

<p>Hoping for an inspirational teacher is not a good plan. In fact, it’s a plan that’s pretty much guarantee to failed. </p>

<p>Can he identify why he’s having such a tough time with chemistry? Is he put off by all the math involved? Does he lack the necessary math skills? Is he missing or weak on some of the foundational concepts? Did he get behind early on and just never got caught back up?</p>

<p>Did your son avail himself to all the supports available to him at his college? Did he attend recitation faithfully? Go to office hours that his prof and TA held? Seek tutoring at the campus academic support center? Work with a study group? Do extra homework sets? Use additional resources beside the text and class lectures?</p>

<p>Talk with him and try to sort out the questions above. If his math is weak (or if he’s math-adverse), this may partially account for the weak chem grade. Like I said, he doesn’t have love math, but he does need to be comfortable using it. Maybe he would benefit from private math tutoring to identify his weak areas and remediate them.</p>

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<p>A very time demanding EC. But more importantly, so are Chem and Bio labs. Thus, while nice, EMT is a time sink, and his time would be better spent earning A’s.</p>

<p>If I read correctly, your S is at Kenyon, with a 2290 SAT score. Thus, he has the raw processing power needed to excel in the sciences, should he choose to do so.</p>

<p>The fact that he did well in hume is not relevant, since premed prereqs are heavily curved, whereas many lit/hume courses are not. Such courses just award more As.</p>

<p>So the question comes down to his background? Had he completed AP Chem – as many Frosh have? How about AP Bio? How are his study skills? Prepping for a premed prereq test is unlike HS…Time to double down.</p>

<p>But in answer to your Q, yes, med schools love lit/hume majors – at least those that can do well in the basic sciences.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Is the reason for his low grade in Chem solely due to lack of mathematical ability? Did he do fine learning concepts, ideas, and the methods to solve the problems? If that is the case, then he has to work on his basic math skills for the next semester of gen chem since I believe the second of gen chem sequences typically has thermodynamics/kinetics problems which involve a lot of math albeit math that does not go beyond the level of pre-calculus. O-Chem involves pretty much no math but physics will obviously involve a of math as well and he will have to take that as a premed so if he has a serious math problem he should fix that (before he takes Chem 2 maybe). Also in my experience the lab course for O-Chem involved a significant amount of math. Since he is a humanities major, he will not take many Chem/Physics/Bio classes so every single one of these classes he takes will weight significantly on his science GPA which is very significant.</p>

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<p>5boys - how are things? Sounds like the first semester finally got done after a year and half? He did stay with his original choice of school?</p>

<p>There are specific premed requirements - 2 years of chemistry (1 year of organic) with labs, 1 year of biology with labs, one year of physics with labs, one year each of math and English and schools are now adding one course each of psychology and sociology although AAMC has not officially changed the coursework despite changing MCAT exam to add one more section.</p>

<p>The idea is that outside of these requirements, a student can pursue pretty much any major.</p>

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<p>To add something to my previous post (since I can no longer edit it) the lecture part of O-Chem usually involves little to no math. The lab course, in my experience, involved a decent amount of math fwiw.</p>

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<p>Not with a 2290 SAT score. Gen Chem only requires a strong basis in Alg I, and a very high SAT score provides strong evidence of that.</p>

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<p>In addition to the courses texaspg lists, he’ll also need a semester of biochemistry and a full year of college level math, including a semester of statistics.</p>

<p>Some medical schools will require additional science coursework. (Typically genetics or anatomy & physiology)</p>

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Again, only basic algebra, which a 2290 SAT shows a mastery of (unless I guess the split is 800V/800W/690M, but even then, the kid clearly knows enough math to handle dilutions.</p>

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<p>Even a 690 is above Kenyon’s 75th %…</p>

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<p>Yeah, it depends on definition of “mastery.” Either way, our point is that intellect is not holding this kid back, it’s most likely just a combination of poor science study habits (not all classes use the same study skills) and a lack of interest in the subject.</p>

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<p>^^My vote is on time management and competing interests (EMT). As you well know, studying for premed prereqs is unlike anyone has ever done previously. It takes a lot of self-searching (and sacrifice) to find what works for you. A one unit Chem lab alone can easily take more time than a 3 unit lit/hume course, at least for those that want an A. (In my D’s lab of 20, for example, the TA said on the first day, that she was capped at one or two A’s for that one lab unit. As it turns out, my D’s lab pulled three A’s that semester, while two other labs had none.)</p>

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<p>^Also a good point. Lack of interest though is often a huge component of time management since people make time for the things that are important to them.</p>

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<p>If the student has the math ability, then the mostly likely problem lies with time management and study habits. Or possibly motivation. It’s easy to say you want to be a doctor; it’s much harder to commit yourself to the necessary day-to-day grind work required to earn the grades to go to med school.</p>

<p>To do well in the sciences/math you really need to put in the hours doing problems sets. There’s no way around that.</p>

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<p>You guys are all so awesome!! Thanks so much for all the advice and suggestions. Shout out to texaspg… hope all is well with you too:). Anyway, a few added notes I forgot to mention. My S took a gap year before matriculating to St Lawrence U. He is not at Kenyon. That is my 2014 S who just got in there ED. He took the gap year so he could hike the PCT. He did have 2290 SAT’s though. He is at St L on an almost full ride. He wanted no debt in UG. Smart boy:) St L does not curve their pre-med classes, which was a surprise to me, as I think he would have fared better if they had. Because of the gap year, and also, he never had AP chem, only honors chem in 10th grade, he had it tougher than most. He had AP Bio and got an A. The math of was hard at first, just because he hadn’t had any math for a year and a half, but the college offered a refresher course, so he was fine after that. </p>

<p>I talked to him extensively yesterday, and he seems to think it was just the amount of studying that was required to master chem, and he had a prof that was, in his mind, not that good. He also got a girlfriend…wink, wink:) He seems to think he can work harder next semester and be fine. I think, in all actuality, he did pretty well based on the strikes against him… not having any chem since 10th grade, and no math for awhile, and adjusting to college( that he LOVES BTW), and a new girlfriend. The EMT job isn’t too time consuming, he has to carry a beeper when he is on call, but only the ‘lead’ EMT that day can miss class.</p>

<p>He never intended on majoring in science. He was always going to major in Philosophy and then do the pre-med requirements. But the mention of the science GPA being harder to keep up that way is something I hadn’t thought about. He is an extremely good test taker, so I think he will do half way decent on the MCAT. He also wants to do rural medicine.</p>

<p>I think waiting to see how he does next semester will be key. He is also considering a PA school if he decides against med school.</p>

<p>This is exactly it I think…</p>

<p>"If the student has the math ability, then the mostly likely problem lies with time management and study habits. Or possibly motivation. It’s easy to say you want to be a doctor; it’s much harder to commit yourself to the necessary day-to-day grind work required to earn the grades to go to med school.</p>

<p>To do well in the sciences/math you really need to put in the hours doing problems sets. There’s no way around that."</p>

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<p>Sure they do, they just call it something different. To obtain a ‘reasonable’ distribution, the Prof just makes the test harder or easier, so by the end of the semester, s/he has x% 90%+, y% from 80-90%, etc. Thus, the median comes out to a B-/C+, or whatever the target is.</p>

<p>Unlike lit/hume, which could easily have 50% A’s per course, and a median of A-, no premed prereq Prof (outside of Brown) would ever consider such a thing. Its not in their DNA. :)</p>

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<p>Huh… thanks BB… that is enlightening:) I think he was above the median with a 78%. for whatever that is worth. </p>

<p>The main reason for my post, was basically wondering if a kid who doesn’t get real excited about Chem, should continue on this path, that is just going to get harder. I guess the question can really only be answered by him:)</p>

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<p>in a typical grading system (as below), he’ll want to aim for one standard deviation above the mean, bcos that’s where the A’s are.</p>

<p>Good luck to him next semester.</p>

<p>Grade Percentage
A 90% - 100%
B 80% - 89%
C 70% - 79%
D 60% - 69%
F 59% and below</p>

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<p>“no premed prereq Prof (outside of Brown) would ever consider such a thing.”</p>

<p>I have seen IWBB’s transcript. I doubt Brown is handing out 50% A’s either in those classes. :p</p>