Interesting interview responses from the folks at the Violin Channel. The takeaway: it all depends on the teacher.
^^Some valuable information on individual teachers and institutions, as well.
I responded on the other thread, but I’ll copy my response here:
Excellent! Thank you for sharing! Personally, I wholeheartedly agree that any musician contemplating entering a 4 year relationship of such importance and intensity should absolutely have a meeting and trial lesson to be as sure as possible that the chemistry, fit and teaching/learning styles match. I don’t think it’s a great idea to use a trial lesson as a perceived way of getting a leg up in an audition, however… the lesson can happen after the audition (and even acceptance), but always before committing to a program or studio. I cannot imagine my D making such an important decision on reputation alone. She had trial lessons (sometimes multiple) at every institution she auditioned at.
If I were a prospective student just reading those responses to the question would rule at least one of the teachers out for me! And interest me in others.
I agree! Really interesting perspectives.
I agree, Spiritmanager!
Also copying response from the other thread:
Please note that these comments are all from faculty at conservatories. Recently, here on the music forum there has been discussion of this issue in regard to applicants to liberal arts colleges and other BA programs (versus BM).
For conservatory applicants, I feel these sentiments really favor kids with money, frankly, and are essentially unfair.
I’m not really sure how you feel this is unfair. It is just stating what the teachers have experienced and what they feel the trial lessons mean to them. We don’t have “money” and our D is going to a conservatory and she was able to have a trial lesson at 2 conservatories, actually after the audition. I have no idea how it factored into her acceptances (she got in to all 3 conservatories for which she auditioned) but it did help her make her decision about where she wanted to go and in the case of her top choice, it definitely sealed the deal for which studio teacher she got, as the teacher fought to make room for her. This teacher did not charge a dime. (the other one did, but did not cash the check until she was accepted to the school, not sure if that was intentional or not). This is an expensive business, for sure, but I don’t see it as unfair. I had a friend whose son did fly all over the country visiting schools and having trial lessons before auditions but we could not afford that so my D contacted the teachers and asked if she could see them during the audition weekend. They were both very receptive to it. They had at this point, I assume, heard her audition recordings sent in the fall.
If your daughter had trial lessons “after the audition” on the same trip, great, but some of these teachers clearly prefer an earlier, separate trip.
Just to be clear my own family had no issues with this: I am thinking of others who cannot afford the travel.
I’m just saying that it accomplished the same thing when we could not swing an additional trip. I think there are ways around it. And my D contacted the teachers early so they had email exchanges before the audition. We did try and put her at summer institutes to meet some teachers but it turned out that what she found was that she DIDN’T want to study with that particular teacher. Which is also valuable insight.
For what it’s worth, I think advance lessons can be a double-edged sword re: a student’s admission chances. Surely an informal one-on-one lesson is a more reliable way for a teacher to gauge a student’s talent, knowledge/background, consistency, teachability, potential, personality, passion and connection than a quick, more formal panel audition with prepared pieces. It seems obvious to me that a candidate can get a leg up if the lesson goes swimmingly (and, further, the candidate has the added opportunity to show progress between lesson and audition), so I understand how it can be seen as an “unfair” advantage over someone who can’t afford the luxury and only has the audition moment to make an impression…however, one can just as easily put him/herself out of the running if the lesson is just ho-hum.
I often think the whole process for getting into competitive music programs might feel inaccessible, at least when reading this music major forum, to families with lesser means. People inevitably recommend families look to a student’s private teacher for guidance on talent level, repertoire and target programs—which assumes the student even has a private teacher (and a high-level one who is knowledgeable, up-to-date, well-versed and experienced in placing kids in top conservatories/schools of music). Students are counseled to apply to quite a few programs to up the odds—which requires costly application and arts supplement fees. They’re advised to produce semi-professional prescreen videos with skilled accompaniment—which can be cost-prohibitive (not to mention near impossible for less-connected students). They’re told they really should visit schools in person to feel “the vibe” on campus while narrowing down targets and/or choosing among acceptances—which requires time away from school and off of work as well as travel expenses. They’re advised to arrange lessons with prospective studio professors (sometimes multiple lessons at each school) to determine with whom they might (or might not) mesh—which requires the same (even if accomplished during in-person audition trips, you tend to have to stay at least another night because professors are fully booked on audition days, etc.) and might incur a service charge. They’re encouraged to participate in summer programs. They’re advised to audition on campus in person (vs regionals and certainly vs video). And the list goes on.
All that said, for various reasons my instrumentalist son hadn’t had private lessons since he was a beginner in middle school; he targeted 4 ideal programs (well, really 3, but I insisted on the 4th needlessly); he recorded his own prescreen videos on his iPhone; he did one video audition, 2 regional auditions, and a single in-person audition; and he hadn’t worked with any studio professors in advance. His only supposed “leg up” was attending summer programs (on scholarship) with largely visiting faculty from non-target programs. He got into all 4 programs and will soon be starting his second year at his dream school.
So while I can see how some or all of these recommendations might be “ideal” for families with means…I just want people to know there can be many approaches to the same fantastic end!
YertleTurtle you covered the potential inequities pretty thoroughly, and it is wonderful to read about your son’s success. Summer programs do indeed have scholarships. The on thing that really stands out for me is that your son did not have a private teacher: was there a school music teacher who was instrumental or did your son do it all on his own?
I’d say the missing private teacher is definitely the factor that makes him an anomaly among his college peers–and keeps us all pinching ourselves that he managed to get there anyway! Yes, he had very supportive and encouraging high school music teachers (who provided letters of recommendation for scholarships and college apps) but not much guidance on his actual instrument or genre (they did round him out by putting him on multiple instruments, which has proven to be a blessing in many ways and for many reasons). He was/is very driven, resourceful, independently motivated and focused (one might say obsessed 
). And his summer programs (and the corresponding teachers) were powerful and validating for him. He’s learned this past year that he’s at a weirdly high level in certain, more unusual areas and yet lacking certain basic foundational skills that he’s been thrilled to fill in with his studio teacher.
@YertleTurtle - Ditto to post #11.
Do you want the “ideal” in your college search? Why yes of course! Who wouldn’t. So do sample lessons as best you can prior. They will assist you greatly in making an informed desicion.
Are they necessary for an acceptance? No. Talent is.
Are they necessary for a successful relationship with a teacher and thus the school? Maybe/maybe not. I’ve seen it both ways for voice. Some taking every precaution and the teacher and/or school doesn’t work. Some taking very basic precautions (like my D ) and it works. I do think instrumentalists may be different but I don’t know for sure.
I will not argue that lessons are not ideal and shouldn’t be pursued as best you can and within your budget. But there are a host of reasons that they may not happen at every school. You just need to have faith in your kid’s talent and let getting an A+ (for you) on the process go.
My D came to VP late…thinking she was doing MT. We actually visited the school she attended and took a generic music tour and then spent the majority of the day meeting theater and MT faculty. It wasn’t clear to her she should do VP until Feb. with her first studio offer. Then she went into research mode (there was a graduate of her high school at the school who gave excellent praise to the teacher as well as others). And the teacher went back and forth with her by emails about her plans. We should have flown down for a lesson but frankly I’m cheap and we were ignorant (which was blissful at the time as I was completely unconcerned and saved some cash…lol). So a very imperfect journey. She met her teacher the first week of school. She’s still a mentor to my D.
So that’s my 2 cents. It is important to do as much right as possible. But being a super parent and checking every box is never more important than your kid’s talent. Whatever your path looks like just do your best, get your kid to the auditions on time and have faith you’ll figure it out along the way.
My son did two Skype lessons with conservatory professors that were very helpful. One was with a local teacher and one was back east – so that is a good way to save money. Some teaches comp the lessons, others charge their regular rate. My son’s private teachers is on faculty at USC so that definitely was a big factor in his acceptance.
In my D’s case, absolutely, but as @YertleTurtle mentioned, it can be a double-edged sword so each candidate should be very careful with this. If the candidate’s forte is being a quick learner (something teachers love), I would highly recommend scheduling trial lessons prior to audition. It is very difficult for the faculty to assess this during an audition and if you leave the trial lesson with the impression of having this asset, it will definitely give you an advantage during the audition evaluation. The other side of the “sword blade” is that the teacher might not go with technique lessons during the trial. If that is the case, then the “trial lesson” might become an interview and a pre audition for the teacher. If the candidate is not at his/her best (especially if the trial lesson is before the prescreening and months before the audition), then it might become a disadvantage.
If the teacher does not answer the candidate’s initial email request, then don’t insist. It’s a clear message he/she is not interested in providing a trial lesson. If the teacher replies and is interested, and gives you several dates and time to choose from, try not to pick a late afternoon time. You want both, the teacher and the candidate to be sharp and not tired.
There are great venues to get trial lessons and master classes from the school’s faculty members such as summer programs (make sure the summer program faculty is the same as the school’s faculty). In addition, for voice performance and musical theatre, the Classical Singer convention in late May is an alternative. My D was able to attend and/or sing in several master classes from different music schools such as Mannes, NEC, De Pauw and Michigan.
What a great post coloraturadad. Extremely helpful.
I don’t agree with this advice. I have fairly extensive experience with this and one thing I’ve learned is that communication is not always easy or direct, and sometimes you need to be resourceful. Some answer email right away. Some answer personal email, but may not answer school email all that often. (Unread school email happens because some are technophobes who don’t know how to forward email…and some school email accounts do not permit forwarding to gmail, etc.) Some are quite disorganized; some rely on studio assistants; some rely on department admins; some prefer phone calls. My daughter applied to the studio of one very sought-after prof who insisted she communicate by fax. Fax?? So we had to use an online fax service. But, after she finally “played for him”–which turned out to be a very long, free lesson in a 3rd city while he was on tour, he magically began to respond by email and phone. (That was pretty extreme, but I respect his need to be hard to contact.) Another teacher only communicated by physical letters which were to be sent to his department mailbox at the conservatory. He never responded. A year later, my daughter was asleep in her dorm at Juilliard at 9 am when her phone rang–and it was him, responding and offering a lesson-- he had not noticed that the letter was a full year old.
So what to do? True, you don’t want to make a pest of yourself, but there is nothing wrong with a follow-up email. The teacher (or her assistant) can easily respond saying she does not give trial lessons. You can also call the department and ask how to get in touch with the teacher (and whether s/he gives lessons.)
Further suggestions:
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Don’t simply ask for a “trial lesson.” Ask if you can “play” or “sing for” the teacher or have a trial lesson–in other words, give them the option of either. They may prefer to schedule something short and sweet (they will know within a few minutes if they can work with you, truly) and not commit to a full hour. It also shows that you are willing to commit to paying (for the lesson) if necessary.
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Your best bet for communicating with an elusive teacher is via connections. If your home teacher, or any of your other connections knows the prof, it might well be worthwhile for them to communicate with the prof on your behalf around the time of your request.
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Don’t be surprised, if the teacher is very much in-demand, if you arrive and find they are double-booked (this has happened many people I know, and it happened to my daughter.) Imagine traveling to see a teacher only to find three other families who have been given the same time slot for their student to meet the teacher, all of them having traveled a great distance. And I mean, from across the US or from another country. Whether you want to work with a great pedagogue who is also either so disorganized or so disrespectful of other people’s time is up to you-- most people would still be thrilled to work with that teacher.
Bingo. My D’s UG teacher hated email. She had her assistants handle them and told them to delete as many as possible as they were distractions to her. It’s sounds cruel but she had to manage a busy schedule which included travel. However she would responds to texts. My D would text her all the time…weekend, evenings. She would take phone calls on a Friday night at 10 from my D. When my D went to grad school she started texting/ calling her grad teacher who was surprised my D would be so informal. In the end she allowed my D to communicate using her “personal” cell phone but asked her not to share that with other students.
I would guess the best way to my D’s UG teacher was personal connections and then her personal number (if provided to you with an intro only). Still she would pick unknown students out of auditions for offers. She knew she was hard to get a hold of and kept a very open mind during auditions.
So you just never know. Try your best to connect but don’t be afraid to roll the dice and do the connections after an offer.
Another point I forgot to make: one-off or occasional lessons are something that serious musicians pursue throughout their early careers. My daughter has already received her MM, but she continually asks for lessons with prominent players when the opportunity arises. This practice helps her continue to grow and develop musically. For the first part of this summer she is faculty at a program she attended when she was younger. She did not hesitate to ask for lessons from the senior faculty, and they were glad to fit her in. They do this for many reasons: for one, it’s a way of giving back within the small world that is classical music. For another, it promotes collegiality. In music, your successful students become your colleagues, often over the span of a few short years. Being a mentor, being collegial–these are good practices in which everyone wins.
So realized that asking for “trial lessons” or asking “to play for” conservatory faculty as a high school student is just the beginning of this practice.