Should all colleges adopt a race-blind admission policy?

Applying to College
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<p>The question before us is should all colleges (private or public) abandon the race consideration in college admission? </p>

<p>I have heard lots of complaints about race being a factor in many colleges' admission process. In this day and age, why would someone's race still matter in college admission? There's no way someone's race can automatically tell you something about this person, or represent who he/she is to an admissions officer/committee. Using race by itself is racist, in my view. If purely for statistics reason, this info could be collected but should be confidential (not visible to admission committee). </p>

<p>Jesse Washington reports in "I Am Not Asian" that some Asian (or half Asian) students/parents use the strategy - don't check 'Asian'. I'm</a> Not Asian - Jesse Washington,AP National Writer/Race and Ethnicity </p>

<p>What is your view? Should colleges totally eliminate the use of race as admission consideration? What should be the applicants stratgey if mentioning their race only gives them disadvantage? What would be your advice?</p>

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<p>I feel that colleges should be race-blind, but some parts of the resume, such as the National Achievement Program, or other race-specific activities will still hint at the race of the applicant; I’m not sure how biased most adcoms would be in that case.</p>

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<p>If I was asian, there is no way I would mark asian on the application. I do think you can mark not identify your race. If you think it is racist, don’t let them hold your race against you.</p>

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<p>This is a hypothetical question because there is no way under the sun you could impose to a private school an admissions criterion. And I would oppose to my last breath if my alma mater removed from consideration factors such as background. I don’t want my HYP alma mater to be a stats driven state school – thank you. If you want that, go to S Korea or India.</p>

<p>Or if you want it locally, 85% of US colleges solely admit on stats – i.e. if they weren’t race-blind, they could be and not affect their admit rates or how they serve their applicant pools. </p>

<p>But the rub is this tigerdad: those schools that do practice “holistic” admissions standards (which include ethnicity as one of many factors) are the very ones you want your kids to attend. But you can’t have your cake and eat it too. You want these top 15% of schools to adopt policies like the other 85%. I would argue that a large component of what makes these schools valued by students and society is specifically their ability to craft entering classes not solely comprised of high SAT and perfect GPA applicants. I would NEVER have applied to any Ivy if I knew going in,that they were 50% composed of Asian students. I’m Chinese, didn’t have a 4.0 or super SAT scores but got into all Ivies applied, BTW.</p>

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<p>T26E4, not sure if I can follow what you commented and your rather strange logic. I was advocating the race-blind policy in college admission, similar to the race-blind policy in employment at workplace, which is used in both pravite and public companies. For instance, Equal Employment Opportunity is THE LAW. Applicants to most private employers, state and local governments, educational institutions, employment agencies and labor organizations are protected under Federal law from discrimination on the following bases: RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, SEX, NATIONAL ORIGIN, DISABILITY, AGE, GENETICS. My argument is college admission should adopt the same policy because it only makes sense in this day and age. </p>

<p>Where did I mention admision criteria should be based only on grades? Please stay on the topic, and once again, the question before us is should college adopt the race-blind admission policy.</p>

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<p>Colleges would be very boring, one dimensional places if the were blind to origins. I’m completely with t26e4, I’d never give another cent to my HYP alma mater if they went in that direction. Witness the UCs which now lack diversity. Everyone loses.</p>

<p>As someone who has worked in college admissions, I can tell you admissions officers rarely have to look at the checked box to know what race someone is. They are so many strong hints throughout every application and school report.</p>

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<p>^ I’d have to agree with that. As a white male senior currently filing applications (and applying into engineering, where this will CERTAINLY hurt me at ANY great school), I understand why people would be upset.</p>

<p>But trying to look at this from the viewpoint of a matriculating student, I would definitely value the diversity that these committees are creating. I certainly would not want to be surrounded by other white and asian males for the entirety of my years in college, and this was an important criteria in choosing my favorite schools. As T26E4 said, it’s part of what makes an Ivy education so valuable.</p>

<p>Now, going on a tangent: T26E4, I’ve seen you here on CC flaunting your Ivy admits and allegedly inferior stats. If you don’t mind my asking, how DID you get in as an “average” asian applicant? Is this just a reflection of how admissions have changed with the times, or are you hiding something spectacular?</p>

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<p>Waverly and MonsterClam, not sure how old you guys are and how much life experience you had (even with your HYP education). Simple question here, do you believe that the Equal Employment Opportunity mandated by the fed law create less diversity? Or more? Then why do you believe race-blind admission plicy/opportunity would create less diversity? Note that I never said, neither I supported, (as T26E4’s message may have indicated) race-blind admission criteria are solely based on grades. Please re-read my very first post. Totally different topic. What I am saying is there may be many many criteria for admission, but RACE is not and should not be part of it.</p>

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<p>Tiger, I’m a fifty something who has worked in college admissions for 2 decades.</p>

<p>CollegE is a time, IMO, for students to broaden their horizons in every way. I always encourage my students to leave their comfort zones for college. To try another coast and to pursue new interests.</p>

<p>I love the fact that the top colleges are taking more internationals, more low income kids, more middle class-- kids from every corner of the planet. Getting the future leaders together to know and understand each other at a young age is critical in my view.</p>

<p>You seem to assume it’s the right of the most academically gifted prior to age 18 to fill these schools. It isn’t. That is not the sole metric these schools choose to utilize nor should it be. And of course schools would be less diverse if they used that metric alone. What culture you were born into and how much money your parents have would be the only things that mattered.</p>

<p>Private colleges are free to create whatever environment they want and I support what most are doing. </p>

<p>I understand your issue with naming race as a criterion. Colleges will tell you they don’t. They will also tell you they don’t weigh legacy much or whether a child is a billionaire’s son. To create a diverse campus and one with enough donors to support their scholarship programs, we all know they do take things things into account. There will always be social engineering at colleges. I for one support it.</p>

<p>Creating a college class with an amazing range of kids, cultures, talents and outlooks is a beautiful thing.</p>

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<p>T26E4: don’t brag. Some Ivy League schools aren’t that impressive. Race/income based points for admission are absurd. I do not believe in compensation.</p>

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<p>“I’m a fifty something who has worked in college admissions for 2 decades.”</p>

<p>Waverly, I have a question.
Do Asian Americans have equal chances at top colleges compared to other ethnic groups?</p>

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<p>Waverly, I think we all agree that diversity in life, let it be in college or at workplace, is a beautiful thing. The question is how to achieve it and whether or not using race as a very criterion is a good or even effective way to do it. </p>

<p>“You seem to assume it’s the right of the most academically gifted prior to age 18 to fill these schools.” Waverly, where does this statement come from? Seems HYP people (similar to T’s assumption that I am for grade based admission policy) love to assume and put your words in my mouth. What I said, once again, was RACE IS NOT AND SHOULD NOT BE A CRITERION FOR COLLEGE ADMISSION. There are better ways. Just like in workforce, we achieve diversity not based on race or artificial quotas. </p>

<p>I agree the fact that the top colleges are taking more internationals, more low income kids, more middle class-- kids from every corner of the planet is a good thing. But again, the question is how to do it. given there are many underprivileged kids in this world, whom should a college choose? </p>

<p>I totally disagree that private colleges are free to create whatever environment they want. It this is right, the why not college for KKKs and Nazis? or Colleges who discriminate people simply based on their race, religron, or ethnicity? In fact, take workplace for instance, even private firms have to follow and comply with EEO laws. </p>

<p>The fact UC system has more Asian isn’t because they are using race blind admission policy. It just means that their criteria for admision is flawed (maybe too much focused on academics, not enough leadership, community citizenship, etc.) I just don’t believe the over represented group can excel to the point where the kids can dominate in every aspect of life or study, be it academics, leaderships, or communication skills, citizenship, etc. No one group can be this well-rounded. So the question is really about how these admission criteria are defined. </p>

<p>In fact, I don’t see race blind employment policy created less diversity. Quite to the contrary, it only promotes it. Now it’s the colleges the turn to do the same!</p>

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<p>Asian Americans are way overrepresented at top colleges if you look at the percentage they represent in the US population vs. Their presense at top colleges.</p>

<p>I’ve read the same things everyone else has that say Asians need 50 points more on the SAT thN a white student for the same college admit. Is that true? I’m guessing the researchers did their homework, so probably. I have never worked at a college that took out a calculator to make sure Asian candidates had higher scores.</p>

<p>But let’s be honest about the real issue. Many Asian Americans come from households where academics was the absolute priority. I for one admire families that are dedicated to education. These families (and Asians a not the only culture known for this) often produce offspring that have the highest grades and scores in their environment. Doses that make them the smartest or tell us that they will have more impact in the world than others? No. </p>

<p>So should a school look for the honest grades and scores as the sole metric? I don’t think so. The high percentage of Asian Americans at top colleges tells us colleges do reward this academic achievement but it’s not the only thing they reward.</p>

<p>Colleges look at candidates in context. It’s far more impressive for a child to do well if they come from poverty than if they we sent to top prep schools all of their life, so colleges reward that too.</p>

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<p>It’s interesting how the diversity drumbeat is sounded so loudly for admissions, and once you have the various ethnic groups, you have self segregation in frats and sors, clubs, by language, and the like, and the same people will tout how wonderful this is too.</p>

<p>As to OP’s original question, I definitely don’t think that private colleges should be forced down this line, but it would be good if there’s more transparency in the policy. I would like to see public schools being race blind and if people find it acceptable to go a school that’s, say half white, what’s the difference in going to one that’s half Asian? I personally think there’s more diversity in the Asian population compared to the US Caucasian populations if that is a consideration. </p>

<p>For the racial diverophiles, I think a better strategy, is to have a school create this by having say an Engineering school and, say, a -studies school, and have admissions to each be race blind and create diversity through self-selection. I sometimes wonder if this in fact is being deployed, because when I went to an event in the CMU ECE building and looked at the photos of the senior class that they have by the entrance, it was very top heavy with Asians. I expect some of the less STEMish departments will have a far lower Asian population, and if this was created by picking the best for each department, it works out, is fair, and also accounts for differences in stats by ethnicity.</p>

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<p>The discussion aspects of this topic can go into the existing FAQ thread: </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1228264-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-9-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1228264-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-9-a.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>I’ll close this thread and invite participants here to join the discussion over there.</p>