<p>Passion, you are not the only college wannabe who lives in an expensive part of the country. Your family's annual income is three times the average in this country. You have a good state university (Rutgers) and a fine smaller state university (TCNJ). Both would be much more modestly priced than private schools, would not necessitate your living at home, and provide excellent educations. And yes, your EFC is typically about 1/3 of your family's gross income. By the way...yours actually sounds low. Our income is 125000 and our EFC is $42000. And no...we don't have significant assets in the bank and YES we also live in a very very expensive state. The choices have been laid out. It is not too late to put in applications to less expensive schools...and your notion that the only good schools cost $40,000 is both wrong and frankly insulting.</p>
<p>i'm not asking taxpayers to shoulder the burden of my education- i'm just saying that in any situation, it's ridiculous to expect a family of five to spend 1/3 of its income on college. its also heinous to make assumptions on what is affordable without looking at the cost of living in a particular area is. if it costs 300k or more for a decent, not amazing house with say, 3 bedrooms, where in other places such as upstate NY you can get the same house for like 125k, obviously there's a difference in the cost of living that should be factored into college. not to mention nj has some of the highest taxes in the country.</p>
<p>i'm not all that familiar with the system, but in england, somehow college is about 15k a year, wherever you go, whether somewhere like oxford or cambridge. obviously, the govt has a lot of money going into the colleges and unfortunately there is no financial aid there for those that really need it, so far that i'm aware of, but i really think that the cost of college in this country is way too high. it has more than surpassed inflation and although a college degree is close to a necessary to have a "career" rather than a "job" - no offense to those without higher education, my dad has done quite well without it for one. obviously higher demand begets higher prices, but what you can do with a BA now, or rather, the amount of people with BAs as compared to the general population now is much higher than it was say 20 years ago, so the increase in need for a BA is more than offset by the increase in people who have BAs, so the value of a BA, while now perceived as more of a necessity, has actually decreased.</p>
<p>anyway, i feel that institutional aid should pick up, not so much the government. because the integrity of a college's selectivity and "diversity" of economic backgrounds is compromised when people who get in can't go because of money. I have done quite well in high school, picking up several state level awards, taking all honors/ap classes (and doing well in them) being involved with school, etc. so i do think that i deserve to go to the college where the fruits of 4 years work will take me. i don't think my parents and my ability to pay should prevent that. </p>
<p>and as for less expensive schools, well, i havent applied to that many because i know that rutgers, especially the honors college, is much better than most private schools, so most colleges that fall under the 40k mark are not worthwhile compared to the rutgers education i can get for 2k a year (if i live at home). now you are all going to holler "poor little rich girl" even louder, which is a total mischaracterization of my situation and in my opinion, the tone of some of the people who've bothered to take the time to reply have been a bit rude, given that i in no way implied all schools that don't cost 40k are crap, just that nearly all private schools i'm aware of (the small lacs I actually like- and tcnj just doesn't hold up academically-according to the opinion of my mentors who are professors-against the small private lacs to which i've applied) whether princeton or fairleigh dickinson, which is soo much worse academically than rutgers, are 40k. or at least the ones in my general area. if i were to go to a less expensive part of the country, the travel costs and family considerations (unless i were to not go home for 4 years) may well outweigh the cost benefits of the tuition. and because i have not explored college options far from home due to my parent's wishes, i am relatively sure that most colleges not in the northeast or west coast that cost less than 40k are not better than rutgers. this could be totally wrong, but this is my totally unprofessional opinion.
thank you very much for helpful suggestions.</p>
<p>Passion, believe me, no one is happy about the costs of college or their EFC....especially if they are families in high cost of living areas. I will say, I do believe there are a bunch of colleges out there that provide just as good an education as Rutgers...my unprofessional opinion also, but based on researching colleges for over 4 years. However, I will say, Rutgers is a very fine school and you are fortunate to live in a state with as fine a flagship U. Good luck to you!!</p>
<p>Passion, I'm with you. $150k in north Jersey is barely enough to squeak by.</p>
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But you sound like you feel entitled to go to any school you want to. Many people are in your situation. The choices are not easy. Work, go into debt or choose a cheaper school.
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<p>Colleges -- particularly top colleges -- promote the fiction that they are need blind. But it does seem like the struggling middle class in expensive parts of the country get screwed.</p>
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i'm not asking taxpayers to shoulder the burden of my education
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<p>Actually, if you're talking about the FAFSA EFC, that's exactly what you're doing. FAFSA deals with Federal aid only - and where else does the money come from but taxpayer pockets?</p>
<p>As far as institutional money is concerned, it's just that - it belongs to the institution (and much of that, by the way, also comes from other students' parents, and from Federal money - out of taxpayer pockets, again). They can do with it as they choose, and most do have what's called an "institutional methodology" which can result in a family contribution of more or less than the FAFSA EFC.</p>
<p>(As far as England's system, I can't debate that because I don't have enough information. I don't know what England's tax system is; how many colleges and universities they have; how many students go to Oxford & Cambridge; what the mean or median incomes are in England; whether kids who can't afford the relatively low tuition even have the option of going to Oxford or Cambridge; what percentage of England's high schoolers go on to college; or at least a dozen other variables that would have to be considered to determine if the educational and economic systems are comparable. Just taking the tuition and saying, "Well, England can do it" is meaningless.)</p>
<p>I agree that college costs are out of control, and I am in a similar situation as you are - high cost of living, high taxes, seemingly high income that doesn't explain half of how we live. And we have to make choices about colleges. So do you.</p>
<p>Passionflower, as you are seeing, many of us who live in the Northeast are in the same exact situation. We will have two in college for the next three years, much lower income than your family and yet our EFC is much, much higher than yours. We had to break the news to our senior that her RD colleges will not work out financially for us. However, she has some great safety schools to consider that will work within our budget. College costs, health costs, utility costs have increased far more than the increase in salaries over the past 15-20 years. We have lived frugally and saved for our children's education, but the funds have not grown enough to pay for an elite college education.</p>
<p>Many colleges will work with you. We too make over 100K but live in the Northeast. Our EFC is pretty high (28K). When we got our son's initial aid package from his college we went up to the school and met with the director of FA. We went over our budget with the director (insurance costs, housing,heating oil etc ) and they gave us 5000 more in Grant $ for him
So now we are going to pay about 23K. It can pay to have this discussion with the FA office</p>
<p>From experience, I can tell you that it's pretty hard for parents of multiple children to be able to save any substantial amount for their childrens' college expenses, and you yourself indicate that although they make $150,000 a year, housing and other expenses in the area where you live don't leave them much extra.</p>
<p>You indicate that they both work very hard, but you did not indicate that YOU have taken any initiative to currently have, or in the future obtain employment yourself. Would that not be an option to help with your college expenses? Many students work full-time during the summer and at least part-time during school months to help with their educational expenses.</p>
<p>You also did not indicate a willingness on your part to pursue other avenues of financial assistance besides need-based. You mention that you are an honor student, so should be able (with a little effort on your part) to obtain academic-based financial assistance. It will mean that you will need to get online and do a lot of searching, applying, writing essays, etc. </p>
<p>In my honest opinion, YOU need to make a reality check! You want your parents to dish out $20,000 a year for you to go to the college of your choice, and for the government to pay the rest while you sit on your duff and complain about how unfair it is.</p>
<p>My advice to you is to apply to some colleges and universities that fall in your financial means. Let your parents keep their $20,000 a year that they work so hard for - and become determined to put yourself through school with what financial aid you can get, and gainful employment on your part.</p>
<p>Minimize your expenses - maximize YOUR income - and stay within your means. You'll still get a quality education and put a lot less stress on your parents and siblings!</p>
<p>You may want to look into New College of Florida. <a href="http://www.ncf.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.ncf.edu/</a>
Even for out of state student, the tuition is low and it rank #1 in public LAC by U.S.News and World Report.</p>
<p>You will find many excellent students like yourself at Rutgers. That's why it's so big. It's a great deal, a quality school at a great price. Yes, you'll have to deal with some large intro classes, but if you stick with it you'll progress into smaller classes before too long. </p>
<p>You seem sensitive to your family economic situation. Your parents work hard, your mom's health is an issue, would you really want them to struggle to provide yout EFC when you have such a good deal?</p>
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<blockquote> <p>Colleges -- particularly top colleges -- promote the fiction that they are need blind>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>Some people also believe that these schools are the only ones that can provide an excellent college education. That notion is also fiction. The reality is that there are many many fine colleges in this country, some are very underrated and have less name recognition. Still they are fine schools. ALSO many of these other schools, while expensive, provide fabulous merit aid, especially to students who they highly desire in their enrollment numbers. Your options are many many many...including Rutgers, a fine school. And as noted...your EFC isn't very much different from any others who live in these high income/high cost of living areas. I know...I'm one of them.</p>
<p>The answer to your question is yes, your EFC should be 1/3 of your parents' income. There is not a mistake in the calculation. </p>
<p>What you choose to do with that information is up to you. You can work to earn some money for college, you can apply for outside scholarships, you can apply to lower-ranked LACs that give good merit aid (there are many threads about those schools on this site), or you can go to a college you can afford without doing any of those other things. </p>
<p>Basically you're making the same decision that the majority of high schoolers make every year. It might be good to remember that the ones you seem to envy, whose parents make less than yours do and who don't live in such expensive areas, probably went to schools with fewer resources than your schools and probably didn't have half the advantages you did growing up. Would you really trade that at this point?</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
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In my honest opinion, YOU need to make a reality check! You want your parents to dish out $20,000 a year for you to go to the college of your choice,
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<p>This hardly seems unreasonable to me. In effect, the price of college is based on parents' ability to pay. The whole system assume and expects that parents will pay. So it's not outrageous that a high school senior would want his or her parents to pay for college.</p>
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sit on your duff and complain about how unfair it is.
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<p>Again, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to complain about unfairness if the system is in fact unfair. And frankly, it does seem unfair to me.</p>
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Some people also believe that these schools are the only ones that can provide an excellent college education. That notion is also fiction. The reality is that there are many many fine colleges in this country, some are very underrated and have less name recognition. Still they are fine schools. ALSO many of these other schools, while expensive, provide fabulous merit aid, especially to students who they highly desire in their enrollment numbers. Your options are many many many...including Rutgers, a fine school. And as noted...your EFC isn't very much different from any others who live in these high income/high cost of living areas. I know...I'm one of them.
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<p>I think that's true, and after studying the ins and outs of higher education and financial aid, I am becoming more and more convinced that places like Harvard are a big ripoff. If I were starting from a blank slate, I would probably encourage my children to attend Rutgers. Further it occurs to me that as more and more bright middle class kids and their families realize what a ripoff places like Harvard are, more and more will go to places like Rutgers, UMass, SUNY etc. and increase the reputations of these places.</p>
<p>currently i've been applying to part time jobs in the retail sphere where i hope i can catch more hours, or acquire another job, in the summer.
i'm doing my best there, but many prefer not to have hs students. i hope to hear from a few places, and i'm filling out applications for a job all the time.
i am planning to work full time in the summer if at all possible.<br>
although my major, poli sci, is not so fast-track career oriented, i'm pretty good at french and would like to increase my fluency to the point where i could get a skilled job doing that.
as far as scholarships, i'm working on that too. sometimes it is very overwhelming, and i'm trying to pick and choose what scholarships i have any real chance at and concentrating on smaller local ones. one thing that is very upsetting is how most colleges use scholarship money to decrease the aid they would have given the students. (i'm sorry if this is unclear) however, i'm hoping that with local scholarships with late deadlines will give the money to me to use for books, room and board, etc rather than addressing it to the college. however, i'm going to try to get scholarships.
thank you for suggesting i have this conversation with the fa office. i thnk that is definitely something i'm going to do once the decisions come out.
i'm sorry if i was unclear in my statements about fafsa expectations. i thought that colleges used the fafsa efc as a guideline for their INSituttions' aid package and that only those in dire need got federal money. i'm not saying i want money from the government.
and yes, the system is unfair. if a family of five people, 3 children, is expected to pay 1/3 of its income for one child's education, something is wrong. even when the student is expected to contribute through summer earnings, etc, it is an unreasonable estimate unless the student is getting a very very lucrative summer job (s).</p>
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i'm not saying i want money from the government.
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<p>I don't see why not. Your parents have been paying taxes for years, and you (and your husband, if you marry) will spend your lifetimes paying taxes. </p>
<p>This is your hour of need and there's nothing wrong with wanting money from the government. Unfortunately, you aren't likely to get it, but you shouldn't feel ashamed if you want it.</p>
<p>By the way, my wife who is also from New Jersey applied for and received a Golden Nugget scholarship. You might look into that if you haven't already.</p>
<p>"Passion, I'm with you. $150k in north Jersey is barely enough to squeak by."</p>
<p>I've never been rude on this board before, but shut up.</p>
<p>Some squeak by more comfortably than others, apparently.</p>
<p>Yeah, it's expensive to live expensively.</p>
<p>while "squeak by" may not be the best of terms to describe 150k in north jersey, its safe to say that people who live a relatively middle class existence, never buying name brand peanut butter or having a luxury vehicle may really live pay check to pay check. i would say a 3 br house is AT LEAST 300k. maybe in ny state a teacher is making 30k, but the house would cost about 150, whereas in nj the teacher is making 40k (a 25% increase) yet the house costs more relative to income.</p>
<p>unregistered- it would have been nice if you kept your mouth shut and had kept up your self-reported history of not being rude. this board deals with a very sensitive subject- money. first of all, you don't know everything about someone else's financial situation. if you are making 150k and supporting an aged parent, perhaps a house wife who has no pension, as well as kids, you may well be squeaking by. if you are de facto supporting more than just your kids but can't claim other relatives who can't take care of themselves financially but can't claim it on your taxes, then no, you are in no way rich.
you should be ashamed not just because you've given an opinion without anything like the proper information to render it, but also because you were out and out rude.
sblake7- i'd say that the same goes for you.</p>
<p>Passionflower--I live in North Jersey, too. We're probably nearby "neighbors". But somehow we're "squeaking by" on less than two thirds of what you are, and we feel rich next to some of our real neighbors, actually, many of our neighbors. But, you probably wouldn't live in our town.</p>
<p>Not everyone in North Jersey lives in an expensive town. Many of the students I teach have incomes a third, or a quarter, or less, of yours. And they live in North Jersey too.</p>