<p>garland- i don't think i'm squeaking by.
another poster stated that 150k in north jersey is "squeaking by." i fyou had read my post in its entirety, or even jsut scanned the first part, you would see that a statement by someone else had been attributed to me and that, while i proposed istuations in which the comment of "squeaking by" could be justified, i did say that "squaking by" did not seem accurate at all.
i'm not saying everyone lives in an expensive town. i'm not crying poor. i'm just saying that what the govt believes i am capable of paying for college is outrageous and the original intent of my post was to see if others thought my SAR was accurate and see other opinions.
i agree that your students who are less financially blessed than me should get all the resources the govt can muster. i have no doubts that, if they have equal "merit" w/e that is, (which could well include holding down a job to help support the family) they should have every opportunity that is afforded to me.<br>
and as far as my earlier comment about living in an area that was turning into a ghetto, i was referring to the prevalent drug use, the fact that gang fights occured on the school's lawn, and the safety and security, as wlel as educational quality, of the school i attended were unfortunately falling. i have nothing against non-white people- i'm dating one. i'm definitely not racist if that's what a previous poster implied.
and could this thread STOP being about personal attacks and rants against those who have been financially successful but find themselves thinking the cost of college and efcs are out of hand? i think everyone can agree on that.</p>
<p>Just my humble opinion here...EVERYONE feels their EFC is too high...unless it is zero.</p>
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and could this thread STOP being about personal attacks and rants against those who have been financially successful but find themselves thinking the cost of college and efcs are out of hand? i think everyone can agree on that
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<p>How have you, personally, been financially successful? </p>
<p>I think people are frustrated because they read the title of your thread and thought you were looking for an actual answer and that, having received the answer, you might appreciate some suggestions on how to get to college. People didn't realize you only started the thread to complain and weren't interested in having your assumption that you MUST attend a $40k a year school challenged.</p>
<p>The 1/3 amount may seem like a lot compared to income but the family is not expected to come up with 1/3 out of income, it is understood that some will be from savings, some from working, some from loans, etc.</p>
<p>I think you have touched a nerve with some of the other posters because what you are going through has been experienced by many, many other people. In a few months these boards will be full of screaming kids upset with their aid packages. And many will have to choose less expensive schools. That is just the way it is. There is not enough aid to give everyone enough money so they can go to any school they want.<br>
Too many kids, too little money, and the schools can charge what they want because the students will come.
I think it is as fair as it possibly could be, because if expenses were calculated in then everyone would just take out huge loans the year before college came.</p>
<p>thank you for your considerate response
as far as expenses are concerned, i only referenced the fact that my family has recently moved so that it canbe seen there is little home equity for a home equity loan for college for me.
i'm speaking mroe to the expenses of local, state taxes and an overall higher cost of living which those people living in areas that are in no way metropolitan may find difficult to understand.</p>
<p>for those that want some more detailed information on the methodology behind the FAFSA, this link provides some enlightening information: <a href="http://www.fafsa.com/fmtables.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.fafsa.com/fmtables.htm</a></p>
<p>to give you a partial summary, each family is given an asset protection allowance based on the age of the oldest parents (presumably to protect assets as they near retirement age). The amount, however, is small compared to what many do have saved for retirement. a two parent family where the oldest parent is 60 gets a protection allowance of $56,200 -- and that is as high as it goes.</p>
<p>each family also gets an Income Protection Allowance or Expected Living Allowances. This is the amount that is budgeted for you to actually live on </p>
<p>"The figures included in this table below are the amounts assumed to be needed for reasonable living expenses that would be associated with the maintenance of an individual or family. The allowance is offset against the family's income and varies by family size. The allowance for living expenses (i.e., rent or mortgage payments, food, utilities, clothing, etc.) are the same for a family who lives in California as a family that lives in Mississippi (sorry about that). The figures are derived from the Bureau of Labor Standards tables, low standard of living and updated for inflation each year."</p>
<p>This is the one that astounds people -- a family of four with one in college is given an expected living allowance of $21,330. </p>
<p>so -- they take your income and assets, subtract out the asset protection allowance, subtract out the expected living allowance and the rest is considered fair game for college expenses -- so you can see why it is so high in most cases.</p>
<p>Keep in mind also that once you are at school your parent's household bills (other than the tuition one) will be lower. Grocery savings are amazing, electric, gas bills, and also car insurance go down. We used to eat out often, particularly after the kid's school events. Now the kids are at college so we almost never eat out.
You kind of get into a different mindset about spending when you know that big bill is coming in a few months. Once you start thinking and living that way, it is doable.</p>
<p>"each family is given an asset protection allowance based on the age of the oldest parents (presumably to protect assets as they near retirement age). The amount, however, is small compared to what many do have saved for retirement. a two parent family where the oldest parent is 60 gets a protection allowance of $56,200 -- and that is as high as it goes."</p>
<p>Just to clarify, because this is a bit misleading. Retirement savings in IRA's, 401K's and other tax deferred vehicles is fully protected under FAFSA. As is the home equity in the primary residence, and all tangible assets (cars, etc). The asset allowance ($56K in the example above) is for checking/savings/investments. Most families find that their reportable assets are lower than their asset protection allowance, so they have no contribution at all from parental assets.</p>
<p>Agree with Sblake. If a parent is paying attention, starting early, all assets over the APA will be in IRAs or 401ks, and home equity. Invisable to FAFSA.</p>
<p>Lots of people think this is unfair or "gaming the system." Well, sorry, but if Congress chooses to encourage certain behaviors by giving financial aid in response, why is it wrong to pay attention and act accordingly? The alternative is to be ignorant and pay full price to send their kids, and mine through taxes, to school.</p>
<p>The fact is that it's very expensive to live in north Jersey. Where I live (Bergen County), a family can easily spend $50k per year just to own a basic no-frills run down 3 bedroom house. Other expenses are very high too.</p>
<p>I have no problem believing that a family with 3 kids earning $150k would have a hard time coming up with $25k per year for college, let alone $50k.</p>
<p>thanks for the clarification, sblake -- I knew that specific retirement assets and home equity were not included in the asset protection allowance and meant to include that in my post -- but it was late, I was tired, etc. </p>
<p>I have noticed some kids and parents posting and mentioning that they had money in stocks, rental property, etc that was to be used for retirement -- so it is important that people understand what is and what is not officially included in retirement assets.</p>
<p>passion -"overall higher cost of living which those people living in areas that are in no way metropolitan may find difficult to understand."
haha. First off I think other folks in less urban areas can understand. They may wonder how such a smart girl didn't realize that places with 150k houses usually pay workers much less too.<br>
many people answering your post, myself included, live in northern NJ or the surrounding metro area. many of us who have answered have less income, lower assets and are surviving. Many families assumed that great grades=low cost college, which it can if you go to a lower tier school than you would if paying cash. Many others, as you can see from reading here, did not understand what the school is allowed to consider. If you are supporting older relatives you certainly could document it and bring it to a FA office.
If your parents just don't want to pay/borrow that much -that is their choice for you. Not the schools being unfair, not the govt., not poor folks who are getting a lower EFC. Your family choice on how to spend their money and what is most important to them.
Although many small local groups will give a few hundred bucks in scholarship after school starts so it's not taken from your need based aid, it is actually illegal not to report scholarships. Be sure it's ok.</p>
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They may wonder how such a smart girl didn't realize that places with 150k houses usually pay workers much less too.
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<p>And workers who are paid less would seem to have lower EFC's. So their children don't get hit quite as bad if they choose not to help with college.</p>
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If your parents just don't want to pay/borrow that much -that is their choice for you. Not the schools being unfair, not the govt., not poor folks who are getting a lower EFC
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<p>I disagree. The schools are being unfair by pretending to be need blind when they are really not. Many are also being unfair by charging far more in tuition than they really need to. Just my humble opinion.</p>
<p>I don't necessarily see the system as being a fair one either - remember the families that are making about what your family's EFC comes to - then imagine 1/3 of that out for the EFC (because at their income, there has been no extra to accumulate assets) - definitely doesn't leave enough for housing in an upscale area!</p>
<p>Please remember that the term IS Expected "Family" Contribution - NOT Expected "Parent" Contribution. "Family" INCLUDES the Student. It is not unreasonable for the family to expect the student to work and contribute to their own college expense - and if necessary, to encumber themselves with debt in order to obtain a college education. It is also not unreasonable for the family to expect the student to choose a school that does not unnecessarily cause the family financial hardship.</p>
<p>There ARE jobs for high school students - if you want to work. Wal-mart hires them all the time to the tune of $7-8 an hour!</p>
<p>I'm not saying there are no jobs for hs studnets. i am not saying i am unwilling to take on some loans. i am just saying that my efc is ridiculous!
i'm not crying poor.<br>
nearly everyone who botherst o respond DOES NOT READ what has been said before.</p>
<p>btw, thansk for the great information on how fafsa is calculated.</p>
<p>"This is the one that astounds people -- a family of four with one in college is given an expected living allowance of $21,330. "
hsmomstef..... is this figure an annual figure??!! and this includes a mortgage and utilities etc. OMIGOD!!!!!What do they think people eat?? "Kibbles n' bits"?
Let's face it, the cost of education is this country is getting out of control, pretty soon it will only be the VERY wealthy and the poor who will be able to go to college and come out after 4 years without a tremendous burden of debt. This is how we are preparing the next generation.... sending them out into the world already "behind the eight ball". And this isn't just the 40K schools...ALL schools are getting expensive, state schools may have a lower tuitions, but then they start tacking on the the "fees" and the costs goes up by thousands of dollars.
The middle class in this country is getting screwed. And the middle class includes people making 150K--there is not a lot left; after taxes ( at least a third of your income), living expenses like fuel that keeps going up.....just like my blood pressure!!!</p>
<p>Also, would like to add that I have 1 relative who living in a low cost area and is earning the same salary as that he would earn in a high cost of living area. His job began in NY and he was transferred to NC. I now have a 2nd relative who is relocating from NY to another low cost of living area, and his salary from NY wil remain the same. This is the primary reason for the move. He was not forced to move, he was offered an opportunity and took it. He will now have a much nicer lifestyle on the same income.</p>
<p>mocollegemom, You are correct, but be careful. One school last year gave us an EFC and then added onto the EFC AGAIN, stating that my son could work and could earn 4,000 over the summer (double dipping on his end of the responsibility). In other words, EFC + 4,000, not EFC including the 4,000 that my son would be held responsible for paying.</p>
<p>lskinner, I agree with your post #50.</p>
<p>twosonmom, exactly. Many public Us today are running around 20,000/year per kid for tution + room and board! Where will it end? If something is not done soon IMO, only the wealthy will be able to attend. It continues to increase 5% (give or take each year), and 5% of 10,000 is diferent than 5% of 50,000.</p>
<p>Only the wealthy are able to afford a lot of things.</p>
<p>I think what posters here are objecting to the entitlement of the OP wanting her choice among all colleges. Can you have a Jaguar to drive there too?</p>
<p>My parents make under $150K and live in high cost areas. We planned. It was clear to me that my dream school would not be possible without a lot of work on my part. In the end it involves a job I often work at 16 or more hours a day during a gap year. It's all good though, the job has taught me lots and boy will I appreciate college!</p>
<p>suze- one has to EARN their way into college. if those who are deemed qualified to attend are not able to go for financial reasons or who have to take exxtroardinary measures to do so undercuts the idea of meritocracy in colleges. cost should not keep anyone from the education they deem the best for them if they have earned the privelege of admission.</p>
<p>i'm really glad that you made your situation work and you feel it has enriched your life. But do you think that that should really be necessary?
you really just accept the fact that you've had to do this without question while others, richer and poorer, go to school ahead of you?
if college admissions is about selecting the best people, and the best people can't attend or without an insane amount of rearranging their lives to do so, what does that say about who really goes to colleges that are expensive?</p>
<p>...And the middle class includes people making 150K."</p>
<p>Only if you consider the top 10% of wage earners "middle class." Keep in mind that the median family income is a bit under 50K.</p>
<p>People get stuck in an affluent bubble-- where most of their friends and neighbors are high income earners, and they begin to feel like they're just average income earners.</p>