I graduated from high school in 1994. My graduating class was 104 at a private, all male high school in the south. It did not weight GPA based upon AP courses (there was no IB locally at the time). I graduated 11th in my class (not that it matters). There was a valedictorian war between two students. One, who ultimately won, took the hardest classes he could. He was a brilliant student and went to the University of Chicago and has had an excellent career. The other opted to take easier classes. He was our Salutatorian. He, as well, went to an excellent college. But, most of the good students felt what he did was underhanded. In his career, he was found guilty for massive Medicare fraud, ran his business into bankruptcy, and has a nine figure judgment against him held by the government. The moral of the story is, don’t cut corners.
Now, as to the topic at hand. There should only be one Valedictorian. But, after high school graduation, it really doesn’t matter.
In my years of work, I have been asked once where I placed in a class, it was with regards to law school (I was in the middle third). I responded as such and asked where the interviewer went, when they responded that they went to directional state, I supplemented my answer with the name of my law school. That was sufficient.
I have a very different view about participation trophies. For some kids, especially at young ages, participation IS an achievement. Last year, my 6 year old competed in the local science fair. She worked very hard preparing a poster and working on the experiement. Of course I helped. But she had to stand alone by her poster and explain her results to various judges. That was a BIG achievement for her and probably for the other litle kids as well. I would have loved for her to have gotten some kind of ribbon to reward her hard work. Of course, as kids get older and competition gets tighter, these kinds of awards go by the wayside, but even for older kids, there is something nice about recognizing that participation counts. Thats why ALL the kids in the musical take a bow, not just the leads.
Val and Sal are only as meaningful as the criteria used to determine them. If the criteria allow for top x%, you can call it whatever, but it carries a different meaning than a Val for 1 person. I have no issues with kids gaming the system if that is what drives them as long as every student knows what the rules are. Both my kids were 4.0 UW and took all weighted classes other than mandatory unweighted academic classes. But they were also 4 year varsity athletes, in student gov and in choir, which made it impossible for them to make Val/Sal (based on WGPA) because competitive athletics, student gov and choir are unweighted. They could take those classes P/F and not have the classes count in the numerator and denominator, but it meant it was 1 less 5.0 available class they could take. They were happy with the choices they made and were happy for their friends who chose a different path and made Val and Sal.
I thought the school handled the graduation ceremony well. The Val and Sal were separately recognized, but so were the top 10 (out of 500). Who gave the student graduation speech was based on a contest judged by a panel of teachers. The Student Body President acted as the student MC.
I agree that having many valedictorians definitely lessens the achievement, but being the valedictorian at my kids school still means something because the district’s criteria almost always identifies only 1 student. The top students at my kids high school tend to know who is the “one” and it has shown itself to be true even before the rankings actually come out. Being a Valedictorian doesn’t matter in the big picture, but being a true number 1# does symbolize something in our society. It is why we spend so much time celebrating championship teams in sports, or still talk about making it to the moon 1st.
Then why have a Val award? Isn’t the award the wonderful grades? Why have any awards? Isn’t the reward the satisfaction of an achievement? Why have medals and trophies to commemorate anything?
I shared the award in HS with my best friend. I think he might have actually got me by a few hundredths of a point. Mainly because he did not play as many sports as I did. We both never made a B. We had that agreement back in freshman year that we would share if we didn’t make a B.
That being said if your class is 500 or more to get it you will have to game the system. I regret staying away from a few classes to make sure I got the A.
After many years it doesn’t really mean much. Nice to be recognized, but it doesn’t help me in everyday life.
Ironically my D19 is not real close to valedictorian, but I would take her test scores in a heartbeat. I think she is smarter than I was when I was a senior.
Our HS chooses Val and sal based only on weighted grades the courses required for graduation. Kids that take four years of music or have a lot of extra unweighted electives aren’t penalized and the ones that take every possible weighted class aren’t necessarily gaining an advantage. Those extra classes just don’t count. There is a little bit of angling for the top gpa but I’m not sure all that many kids understand how the system works before senior year. The kids at the top of the class all tend to be taking the same AP classes and are generally all friends. Some kids are more competitive than others. My D was sal, but I don’t think anyone knew she was in the running until late senior year because she didn’t talk about her grades if she could avoid it. She also refused to take any additional weighted class senior year just to keep herself in position for Val. She took classes she was interested in, including four years of orchestra, and three years of art. This school tends to have only one or two Vals in a class of 550-600.
Val, sal, and class president all give short speeches at graduation. Writing and delivering that speech in front of thousands of people was probably as much or more of an challenge and achievement for my quiet daughter than the four years of perfect gpa that got her there. It was a special moment.
@gallentjill I think of it from a point of view of awarding something for a winner (you can go up to top 3 Olympic style)… I laughed my head off (of course not in front of my child) when my daughter would bring home a 17th place ribbon from a swim meet. 1st place got basically the same ribbon as number 17 but it had a 1st on the ribbon and the ribbon was gold. I prefer celebrating achievement (winning) instead of participation alone, which is why I like celebrating a true valedictorian, but that line of thought is old-school and rapidly changing within society. My guess is that your view is in the majority.
@ChangeTheGame, would you feel differently if the lanes were slightly different lengths and where you started was a matter of negotiation? Or if first place awards were given only to the single fastest swimmer in the meet, regardless of event? That’s what the valedictory race is like at some schools.
My kids knew which trophies were meaningful and which weren’t. The first place cups for indoor soccer disappeared quickly. The 6th place all-New England ribbon is still hanging.
I think if you take Honors and APs and get As, you should be ranked higher than if you took College Prep and got all A’s.
On the other hand, weighting everything such that you don’t take gym or band or electives because they are not weighted is destructive to HS students, i believe.
Back in the dark ages when many of us went to HS, there was no system to game. AP courses --and thus bonus points – were few and far between. Everyone had to take four years of PE (in our state). Taking Honors Orchestra in senior year did not ‘hurt’ your GPA.
@Sue22 I think I grew up in a different place from most on CC. Every trophy, cup, and knick-knack, no matter how important is now collecting dust in the attic. What was important for us and still up in our household are the pictures from those times. I believe that my kid’s high school has a fair race for val so I can only speak from my personal experience, but if things were unfair, I don’t think it would bother me either, because the world is unfair and I would want my kids to learn from/overcome obstacles along the way.
Who really cares? (I know, a lot here do.) It’s a high school award. Schoolwork from 14-18. It won’t auto admit you to a tippy top, guarantee anything in life. It’s just slicing and dicing, not a lifetime achievement. The work goes on.
And what if ten kids get a 4.0? Then slicing per course rigor? What’s it going to come to, to find one top kid? AP physics is “harder” than AP French? Someone thinks so, so give that kid a boost? For what?
And then complain about holistic? All this assumes only winners get ahead, only the one “true” winner is the worthy one. But that’s not worth. It’s high school stuff. And a mighty tender time in life to encourage kids to think only winning is the point. Is it any wonder so many kids on CC claim depression and anxiety?
And what about team sports? Is a relay about only the kid who got the best time in her segment? Or no, the weather was crappy on the day of Sally’s race, so her time is more important than Bob’s, because he had perfect conditions?
You’re imposing this hierarchical attitude. Life isn’t like that.
What are we telling our kids?
Mine are brilliant, afaiac. And truly good people. Accomplishments, but not awards. No need to hold herself over others for hs gpa.
Maybe some here would like to change the meaning of valedictorian. Only one can be the best, except in a rare case of a tie, like we had at my h.s. To say “let’s call the top 10 students Vals” or “Let’s call the top 2% vals”, diminishes the value and misuses the word, imo.
If some want to argue doing away with rankings, then argue that. If some want to do away with Vals then argue that. If some want to create a new group title such as “highest performers” in lieu of val, then argue that. If some want to argue basic minimums such a AP classes, then argue that.
Isn’t the definition of a val the best performing academic student? I think the question for those that don’t like that, is not to say let more students be called a val, but rather to do away with the name and create a new term. Is the point of recognizing a Val an effort to make student(s) feel good about themself or to recognize their achievement? Jon234(post 39) argues for what I’d call a “spirit award” I’m ok with that, but Val is based on gpa, not attitude.
My student had no Ap- my student had 1- my student had 3! SO what? Equality of outcome or equality of opportunity?
Perhaps gaming the system and grade grubbing to gain class rank in high school is useful practice for any prospective pre-meds, who need to be very careful about course selection in college to minimize their chances of getting non-A grades?
I am arguing against this hierarchical mentality that only one can truly be best. It’s empty, imo. I wince when the silver and bronze Olympians sob for not being gold. Or #4 falls apart.
Even presuming the two top kids who tie should share is assuming only a tiny number could possibly be worthy.
I will respectfully disagree w/ post 41. It is wonderful the child chose to enter a science fair contest, and wonderful that the child prepared and did well. I would think that would help teach the child about the topic presented, other topics that others presented, and something about competition. But it was a competition and some did better than others. I get that a ribbon that essentially says “you showed up” issued by the school might make a child feel good. I’d prefer a proud parent recognizing the time, effort, and performance of the kid, and perhaps treating the student to a zoo, or park, or favorite dinner, or such. At a child’s musical all may bow, but there are stars and supporting players. In addition, there are writers, directors, stage hands, tailors, and more. They are all necessary, but some rise to the forefront, They don’t remove the actors so the lighting crew can come out to take a bow.
Kind of mirrors society right now. We have those who will “game the system” to win at any cost. We have kids who know and follow the rules, and want to win by the rules. And those for whom the rules don’t apply/aren’t important. I think it’s a reflection of the town ( region where you live) and to a large extent the family. In some towns it’s ok to have a lot of “winners” ( I’d guess these are higher income), some towns where it’s one kid and some towns where they don’t count.
