SHould I apply to these musical theatre schools? What are my chances?

Penn State is highly competitive. Last I knew, SUNY Purchase didn’t have an MT major. And of course you don’t have to apply to non-audition programs (my daughter wouldn’t), but be prepared for the possibility of not getting in anywhere. It does happen, even to really talented kids. Of course none of us here knows you, but if you have the means to do so, you might want to have an eval done by a coaching service like MTCA to give you some guidance as to schools where you may have a chance.

Penn State is one of the top MT programs in the country. It is very difficult to get in and most certainly would not be considered a “safer” school. SUNY Purchase is a good school but it is an Acting BFA. They do not offer a musical theater degree.

You are definitely not stupid! You are quite smart for asking so many questions. Auditioning for musical theater programs is a complicated process. If you look at the numbers, all of the programs you’ve mentioned have hundreds, sometimes thousands of students, applying and auditioning for a precious few spots in the program. The odds are not in anyone’s favor for any of these programs. But people do get in! If you truly want to study MT in college, it is highly advisable to not only have some of the top schools on your list - but to also have some schools on there that are a little less competitive to get in. And to also have some non-audition safeties as well.
There are great non-audition programs out there and there are threads on CC that discuss these schools at length. I would strongly recommend you search CC for the list and description of non-audition programs and pick one or two of these non-audition programs as your “safety” schools. Some really talented people attend some of these programs for varying reasons - they may wish to study some other subject in addition to MT, it may be a financial decision, they may want to be in a certain geographic location… who knows. But just because it is non-audition does not mean - not good. You just need to really investigate all of the possibilities. Muhlenberg is one I would look at for sure.
If musical theater is truly your passion, I do not buy the argument of “if I’m not good enough to get in an auditioned program I won’t make it in theatre”. There are stories on CC and online you can find of students who didn’t get into any auditioned programs during their HS senior year. Some took a gap year and did nothing but prepare for auditions and successfully were admitted to great programs their second time auditioning. There are also stories of really talented kids who drop out of MT programs because they find the intensity, the schedule or other things are too much for them. So even though they have the talent they don’t have the drive needed to succeed. And stories of someone who may have been considered “less talented” who works hard and makes a great career for themselves. A lot of it is really up to you and how much you want it and how hard you are wiling to work for it. In the professional world you will see successful performers coming from many different schools and training background. So investigate some of the schools you may not have heard of before. There are excellent, excellent programs out there.

Again, I still recommend having a couple of reach schools, a good number of “fit” schools and a couple of non-auditioned safeties.

It is just so harder to differentiate between the MT safer schools because there are SO many. how do i pick safe schools??

Also- does SUNY Fredonia have a BFA in musical theatre? Would that be safer?

Also! Anyone heard of CCPA in Chicago (Part of Roosevelt University). Is it good? and how competitive is it?

I would rather pick safety schools near either New York or Chicago…

It is hard. And no schools are truly safe. As was said earlier, there are kids who have been turned down by their “less competitive” schools only to get in one of their top schools. There is no audition program that is a safety. I would only consider a school a safety if you know you meet their academic criteria and it is an affordable option for you and there are no other prerequisites for admittance.

CCPA is an auditioned school. I would not say it is as competitive as NYU, Carnegie Mellon, Penn State, Ithaca and Syracuse - but it is still quite competitive to get in. In Chicago, there is a school called Columbia College that has an MT program. You do not have to audition for admittance. But you may have to audition once there if you want to select a BFA as your major.
I’m sorry but I don’t know anything about SUNY Fredonia. But if you are wanting to be in New York, some programs that are competitive, but less so than NYU would include Marymount Manhattan, Pace, Montclair, Rider, Cap 21/Molloy and Wagner. None are “easy” to get in, but may be a little less competitive than NYU.

To put Penn State in perspective – we were told that they auditioned about 650 and select 14.

Montclair gets over 700 applicants and Pace supposedly gets over 1000. If you want to play a pure numbers game, I always tell people that if you have talent and the academic creds (and I mean really have them; this school has to accept you academically first and their standards are high) and you have money and don’t mind being in an acting studio, NYU has decent odds for admission because they take so many. (Their MT studio is another story). Another program that takes a LOT of kids (like 20%, which for MT is huge) is Boston Conservatory, and for them (I’m generalizing here) you just need talent and money. Rider is another school that has a large freshman class so your odds MAY be better if you are looking purely at numbers accepted/numbers applied. Of course with all these programs you have to first, have talent, and second, do your homework and be prepared. And even though these schools take in large freshman classes, they are very popular and highly regarded programs so your chances MAY be better at less popular programs that get fewer applicants. Again, we don’t know you. But there is absolutely no shoo-in audition program. And seriously, Ellen Lettrich at MTCA is a genius at advising which schools would be a good match for you based on type, talent, academics, finances, etc. of course she has nothing to do with the admission process but she can tell you which schools would be reaches, good fits, and safeties.

I found it was useful to go through past acceptance threads and look for schools that had lots of acceptances, rather than just one or two. There are lots of variables, obviously, and you can’t assume you’ll get in to any audition program, but it might give you some ideas. BTW, my son goes to CCPA for acting (not MT) so if you have any specific questions about the program, I might be able to help (or ask him).

I think it is a good idea to try and see how competitive you will be nationally. You can do this in a variety of ways, auditioning for summer programs, auditioning for professional non-youth theater in your area, trying for Young Arts, and talking to coaches like Ellen at MTCA who will tell you their honest appraisal of your competitiveness after they see your pieces. Then you can create a balanced and thoughtful list that MUST include non-audition safeties. There are plenty of people who have BAs from great schools who did not get a BFA for a variety of reasons. The letters on your degree will not dictate your future unless you let it.

I completely understand why you are reluctant to apply to nonaudition schools. Folks will put a lot of pressure on you to apply to one of these! So, if you must: You will likely have a really topnotch SAT/become merit scholar, and you’ve taken a challenging courseload. You may want to consider Northwestern. They are one of the better programs with no audition. If you want to be in NYC, you might look at Hoffstra on Long Island. They have an MT program where you audition after freshman year?. With your stats you may qualify for a $20-25K scholarship if not a full ride (trustee’s scholarship). Check it out!

As with any audition based program, there really aren’t any that can be considered “safety schools”. You have mentioned extremely selective programs. You do need to cast a wide net between the selective top MT programs and perhaps some non-audition programs. You need to be prepared most likely to apply to more schools than others strictly applying to colleges for undergrad. Is there an application limit from your high school or from your parents because of application fees? Also you did not indicate your home state and you might find that your home state university or state system has a suitable program that is non-audition.
With your stats you might want to look at American University as their program was fairly new when my d was applying and they did give merit money for academics especially if you demonstrate some interest.
What does your high school drama or any of the contacts from non-school based performances recommend? Are you planning to work with a coach to prepare for auditions? They will or should be able to lend expertise in all the current programs.

Hofstra BFA is in Performance. You can take minors in MT and Dance. Double major in drama. They have a lot in the performing arts.

I am planning to work with a coach (: I would rather apply for schools around New York and CHicago because where I live there are no opportunities professionally to work and if I don’t feet the adjustment to city life in college it will be hard to later. My my family, mentor and I have made that decision. I live in a small town in Southern Washington State.

I don’t get why that would be so? (adjusting to nyc or chicago “now” rather than later). I would guess the opposite: it might be easier for a 22 year old to make that adjustment rather than an 18 yr old who is also adjusting to college/being away from home for the first time? I understand if you want to work, I get it. But not for the early adjustment. Also, don’t underestimate opportunities in Ohio, Pittsburgh and elsewhere for regional professional work. There are many really good programs you will forgo if you limit yourself to just NYC and Chicago. (But I get it for the safety School. My D said if she is forced to go to a safety, it would need to be in NYC!).

You sound like my daughter a few years ago. We are from a rural area and she had had it with small town life and was just itching to be in or very near a city. She would have gone nuts waiting another 4 years. I’m not aware of any non-audition safeties in NYC for MT (Hofstra may be the closest you’ll get and it may be a really good option) but you really might want to jump in on the Molloy/Cap 21 boat before it gets too well known and popular. Columbia College in Chicago would be an excellent choice, too.

@Beccaw444, there are many opportunities to work within striking distance of small town southern Washington State. You just need to be old enough to get yourself to them and have access to transportation or a place to stay. Your own state’s flagship University of Washington is having its inaugural year of their BA in MT. It is by audition but something you might want to consider adding to your list. You could certainly entertain a minor in psychology there. There is also a BFA in MT at Central Washington University. I don’t know if admission there is by audition or not. There are talented students in that program and if there is an audition, it isn’t a safety, but you can assume it doesn’t have a nationally competitive draw like other programs on your list do and make your own conclusions from there.

I don’t understand your sentence about adjustment to city life in college will be hard later. The wording is a bit confusing. Can you elaborate? If you mean having had it with small town life, that’s different from thinking that you just need to get there right out of high school. Clarify?

I would rather my daughter experience the city with the safety net of college than do it on her own after college. But each family is different and what works for one …

@bisouu That is a good point! Living in a dorm as opposed to an apt in nyc for the first time would be a lot easier! But temptations might be different at 18 as opposed to 22…