Should I even consider grad school in this situation?

Graduate School
1

<p>I just graduated in August with my B.S. in Psychology. I had a job lined up in Human Resources but it ultimately fell through. I've tried applying everywhere in my area (for example at banks for teller/collections positions, admin assistant positions, retail management, etc.) but I've had absolutely no luck. I started to panic and enrolled at a community college to finish a paralegal associates degree because I wasn't sure what else to do. Ultimately, I do not qualify for any more financial aid and my parents are unable to help me with school. I cannot qualify for a private loan without a cosigner and I'm worried about what to do next. I can pay for this semester but that is all of my savings and graduation money. I have no methods of obtaining a private loan because I have no one else who can act as a cosigner and my parents have terrible credit. I am also not really interested in being a paralegal; however, I was trying to find a way to gain direct employability. After talking with some friends/advisors I thought this was the best way to go.</p>

<p>I'm contemplating going to graduate school; however, I'm not sure going into debt further is a great idea especially since even at a master's level, most psychology degrees do not guarantee better job prospects. I realize grad school is not something to be taken lightly and I was hoping to gain some real world work experience prior to applying to grad school. I'm interested in Industrial/Organizational Psychology, Human Factors Psychology and School Counseling but those three fields are pretty difficult to break into. I have internship/research experience but I have not yet taken the GRE and my GPA is not exactly strong at a 3.3. Any advice or input on what I can do? I've been looking for serving jobs/min wage jobs at this point, but I'm really tired of waiting tables and would prefer to find more valuable work experience even in an unrelated field.</p>

<p>( I just wanted to note: My internship experience is in the area of I/O psych. I'm not going into this blind with no idea of what to expect. I have done the research about the requirements to get into grad school and I also attended the grad school fair at my college and spoke with professors/representatives).</p>

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<p>I also have the option of pursuing a certificate in cognitive sciences and taking human factors or I/O electives to gain “education experience.” Basically the program would allow me to get my foot in the door, take some graduate coursework, meet important graduate faculty and be a little bit more competitive when it comes to applying for a master’s/PhD program. Certificate programs at my school are eligible for fin aid. I thought that doing this combined with an RA or TA position could cut down the cost of tuition. OR I can apply as a non degree seeking student but I’d have to finance a semester or two out of pocket :frowning: assuming I can find a serving job or something in the meantime.</p>

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<p>any input or advice?</p>

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<p>Panicking and going back to school to spend MORE money is not a good idea, unless you are absolutely desperate and have no other way to support yourself. If you aren’t interested in being a paralegal, and have no more money to go back to school…continue to search for a job! In this economy even experienced hires have spent 6-12 months or more searching for a job.</p>

<p>Industrial/organizational psychology and human factors psychology are a decent field to go into with better job prospects. But don’t go running into graduate school (racking up more debt) if you aren’t sure about your field AND you’re only doing it because you’re having problems find a job. Continue to job search. (School counseling is not an easy field to break into, and I don’t think you would increase your employability. You might in school psych, but it’s so radically different from the other two fields that I get the sense you are grasping at straws.)</p>

<p>Definitely do not go to a PhD program just because you can’t find a job. You’ll be even more unhappy.</p>

<p>Don’t pursue a certificate. Graduate school is intended for getting a degree for a specific intent - getting an I/O degree because you need it to get a job as a licensed I/O psych, or getting an MSN in nursing to be a nurse practitioner. It’s not something to do just because you can’t figure anything else out…continue to search for a job. Get a copy of What Color is Your Parachute?</p>

5

<p>I really don’t have any other way to support myself. My parents house is being foreclosed so I have to find a way to support myself and move out soon. I was planning on attending graduate school anyway, but after I had worked a bit and fully stabilized my life. I don’t have 6-12 months to spend on looking for a job. I have no savings and no money. I literally am running on empty. My parents and family have nothing to contribute. The economy in my area is terrible. THERE are no full time jobs willing to hire psych majors. I’ve been looking for 3-4 months now. That is ultimately why I enrolled in the paralegal program to begin with because I was looking for direct employability. But since I am not dedicated to being a paralegal its torture. At least with the PhD or Master’s I can spend my time in a field I enjoy doing something I like.</p>

<p>I am sure that I would be happy in I/O psych or Human Factors. I have internship and research experience in I/O and I really enjoyed it. I was planning on pursuing a grad degree eventually, just not this early in life. … research is my favorite thing in the world.</p>

<p>I think going back to school instead of waiting tables at a pizza joint or being an assistant manager at Hollister looks better to employers and shows my drive and dedication to succeed. The certificate program isn’t something I’m doing for kicks. It would be to get my foot in the door and take some grad classes before I start dropping thousands of dollars on something I’m unsure about. It would also give me a chance to really prepare for the GRE and meet significant professors who could write me excellent LORs. The point of the certificate program would be to prepare myself for the rigorous work required in grad school. It is also covered by financial aid so I would not have to pay out of pocket. And in the long run it would help because I can then spend time perfecting my application and making myself a stronger candidate for a fellowship or assistantship and ultimately take out less loans.</p>

6

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<p>This is wishful thinking. Employers want a mix of education and real-world experience. If you have tons of education and no actual jobs, you look over-educated - which is a thing.</p>

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<p>It means more loans that you’re going to have to pay back at some point.</p>

<p>I am borrowing for my graduate degree, but I didn’t pursue this program until after I worked in a significant (paid) internship experience that offered me the opportunity to build a career in the field - and provided me a strong chance of full-time employment after graduation.</p>

7

<p>Do you know anyone (friends or family) who lives in an area with a better job market? If so, I’d encourage you to strongly consider moving.</p>

<p>Is there a branch of a national temp agency (like Kelly) near you? Go ask them if you can test (document skills) locally, and have them send your file to a different branch when you move. They ought to be able to tell you if there are any areas where they need more people with your skillset than they have. If they can, I’d encourage you to strongly consider moving.</p>

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<p>I strongly disagree. The best way to get a job is to have a job. It puts you in contact with potential employers who can see for themselves what a good worker you are. It gives you the opportunity to be promoted from within. If it’s a national company, it gives you more ability to have a job waiting for you when you move. It puts money in your pocket, rather than adding student loan debt not dischargeable in bankruptcy.</p>

<p>I’ve got a Psych degree from a big-name school, had a good GPA, and graduated when the local unemployment rate was about 4%. I spent 6 weeks sleeping on the floor of my parents’ attic (they were not believers in boomerang children, so converted bedrooms to office space the same year each of us went to college) without getting so much as a good lead on a job, and eventually started temping. A temp job turned into a full-time job, and the skills I got at that full-time job got me a better job, and eventually I went back to school.</p>

<p>The people I know locally who have gotten jobs recently (local unemployment at 8%) all got them because they knew someone who worked for a company that was hiring, and the employee handed in the applicant’s resume and personally vouched for that person being a good worker. Not having those kinds of contacts makes it much harder to find work, and having a job that brings you into contact with people makes it easier.</p>

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<p>While I agree that having a job of some significance would put money in my pocket, allow me to pay off my loans, and look good on a resume, I am not going to make enough money working as a retail assistant manager or as a server to support myself. Most jobs such as these aren’t full time anyway, as they are cutting hours. My psychology bachelor’s is essentially useless in my area (regarding full-time jobs). I have had connections but they can only do so much. I had a human resources position lined up but it ultimately fell through because the woman that was leaving ultimately decided to stay and was not relocating for her husband’s new job like she had planned. Serving has not been beneficial for networking whatsoever. Working in a bar until 2am is not helping promote my career at all. </p>

<p>I’ve worked my way through college, so I have lots of experience in the food service industry as a server/server trainer/receptionist but I’m not interested in restaurant management or retail management. I’ve been looking everywhere for an administrative position but its tough when someone with 5-10 years of experience is applying as well. I have been looking for case management or bachelor level positions and the competition is so fierce that its pretty much been a lost cause.</p>

<p>I have no extended family that I could potentially move in with or ask to put me up while I transition. I have absolutely no money saved up in order to move and its looking like if I don’t find a job soon I’m going to be working somewhere such as Hooters to support myself. Which, arguably, looks worse than actually doing something productive in school.</p>

<p>The temp agencies in my area are so full of applicants there is no chance of me finding a job that way. I’ve tried that avenue already.</p>

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<p>“There exist no jobs or combination of jobs which would keep a roof over my head and food on my table” is a different problem than “I can’t get hired for the kind of job I’d like to have in the local I’d like to have it.”</p>

<p>Having a bad job sucks. Having two or three part-time bad jobs is worse. But either of those pales in comparison to having enough student loan debt to keep a roof over your head and food on your table plus pay tuition for multiple years. Ten years from now, you can look back on a series of bad jobs and laugh. Ten years from now, you might be looking forward to paying more than a house payment in non-dischargeable student loan debt every month for the next 20 years.</p>

<p>Fast-forward for a moment to a year or so from now, when you’d have your paralegal degree. You’re now qualified to do a job that you don’t like doing, but you don’t necessarily have a job. What’s your school’s job-placement record like? How many grads have paralegal jobs lined up within 2 weeks of graduation? How many are full-time and how many part-time? How many are contract? What’s the average starting salary? Does that count everyone, or just the grads who returned the survey? What percentage returned the survey? Law firms can get a newly-minted attorney for $25 an hour or so, contract, in many markets - why would a law firm hire a paralegal who doesn’t actually like paralegal work, and not a licensed attorney? </p>

<p>Fast-forward to when you’ve finished the certificate program, and ask those same types of questions. Who would be hiring, and what are the odds of them hiring you?</p>

<p>Re-reading, it looks like you had an internship. Internships in some fields are like really long job interviews - is there a reason that internship didn’t turn into a job? How have you kept in touch with the people you met on the internship, including other interns? Have you asked them to help you find work?</p>

<p>I was a resume reviewer for my professional society’s student night a few weeks ago, and there was one kid who stood out to me. He did not have a stellar GPA. He had no relevant work experience. There was nothing fancy or special about his resume, or his appearance, or anything. I spent maybe 3 minutes total talking to him, and if he were local to me and looking for a job, I’d pass his resume on to half a dozen places in a heartbeat, and tell all those companies I thought he was worth hiring. Why? Because he’d driven a couple hours to get to the student night in my half of the state after having already gone to the student night in his own half of the state, because he wanted as much advice as he could get about how he could improve. And because he came up to me with 3 minutes left before the next session so he wouldn’t miss the opportunity to talk to one more person. And because he’d put on his resume, under the job position “farm hand,” that he’d learned to get up early in the morning and work all day long, day after day, doing hard, hot, dirty work that most people didn’t want to do. And because he had the biggest smile I saw on anyone at the entire event. If that guy got an interview, I don’t have a doubt that he could get a job. Employers like people who are not afraid of hard work, of showing up every day and getting stuff done even when it’s not interesting or enjoyable, of going the extra mile.</p>

<p>You could be that guy. Being a really good server (even at Hooters) requires good people skills, good memory, good attitude, hard work, and doing things most people don’t like. A regular customer at the bar who’s seen that you’re smart and hard-working and always have a smile on your face, and who finds out that you’re looking for a different job, might know somewhere to pass your resume along. You can network almost anywhere, and almost anyone could be the person who networks you into a job.</p>

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<p>Many grad school programs offer tuition stipends for TA’s. depending on the program you apply for you may not have to worry about the tuition part. I know our grad students in my dept are provided tuition waivers and just need to cover living expenses. Sometimes they even work with the res life offices and get room and board covered in exchange for RA duties. I/O psych is a great area and many consulting firms exist for those with advanced degrees in those areas. Check out linked in for people who have that degree or work for consulting firms. Talk to the faculty and ask where they have connections and where they are sending students. Also with the public loan forgiveness program if you work for 10 years in the public sector (ie like a faculty member at a state school) you can forgive portions of your loans. Life is too short to be unhappy, if you work hard you can make it happen :)</p>

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<p>Alleyphoe, I understand having a bad job sucks. I’ve had quite a few terrible jobs so far. That might be true, but its also true that having a PhD would also qualify me for higher paying jobs so that I could pay that student loan debt off. There is no guarantee with any job that 20 years from now I can afford a roof over my head. There’s no way to predict how my life will be 20 years from now. What I can tell you is right now, I’m in my grace period. And I STILL can’t afford the student loan payments I have from undergrad with two serving jobs. Its just not possible. I’m not going to waste my life away serving. I’m not going to be looking on those bad jobs and laughing if the only job I am qualified to get with my bachelors is a serving job…20 years from now. </p>

<p>The school I am attending has an ABA accredited paralegal program with an excellent job placement rate. ALL of the professors in the program were/are practicing lawyers. Most graduates do have jobs within a month of graduating. The average starting salary is around 20,000-25,000 with a median in my area around 45,000 after 5 years of experience. This only counts those that return the survey but this program has so many immediate contacts with the bar association in my state and the local practicing firms that its not a bad way to network. I just have weighed the costs and benefits and ultimately, I don’t have the funding to be able to complete the paralegal program in a decent amount of time. You don’t have to have a degree to be a paralegal and the internships/job experience provided by the program are really beneficial. Most paralegal students who complete their internships successfully are offered a position within that firm if one becomes available. My professors have even stated that sometimes firms are willing to make a position or call other firms and recommend students who do a good job and perform well. Just because I don’t like a job doesn’t mean I won’t work hard at it and give it my best.</p>

<p>I don’t think you understand. The certificate program is a WAY/means to get into a PhD or Master’s program. I will not be using it to get direct employability. I won’t be looking for a job, I will be applying to grad school AFTER I complete it.</p>

<p>The internship was completed with a research lab on campus and with a graduate student. She left the program after graduating and there are NO BACHELOR LEVEL positions in Industrial and Organizational Psychology. You MUST go to grad school to be in that field. I have kept in touch and they said they are keeping an eye out. I applied for a case management position based on a reference/recommendation from a colleague with no luck. I have no case management experience.</p>

<p>I don’t understand what you’re saying-I haven’t been able to find a job at all to prove that I am capable of working hard. All of my past employers would comment that I take initiative and I am a good employee. There is no reason for you to say that I wouldn’t be a hard worker. And as for the Hooters position-I have been there done that in a similar environment. 9/10 the people in there are not looking for women/girls that would do well in a professional work environment. They are looking to eat lunch and drink beer or watch the game. I do keep in contact with some people I have met who recognized my good work ethic; however, they work in Computer Science/Engineering. Not exactly Psychology friendly. I specifically went to college so that I WOULD NOT have to be a server for the rest of my life. I’m willing to take a job as a file clerk or a low person on the totem pole but I can’t even find something entry-level for me to be able to prove myself. Unless I’m looking to excel in the restaurant management industry a job at Hooters is in no way beneficial and isn’t going to pay my student loans off anyway. I’ll be living paycheck to paycheck.</p>

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<p>MyAdvisorSays, Thanks for the advice I am planning on applying for fellowships/assistantships and RA positions. If I could at least cover living expenses and part of tuition, I think that would help a lot. </p>

<p>I’m not planning on taking thousands of dollars in loans blindly. I know fin aid in grad school is hard to come by but I am willing to work to find it.</p>

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<p>There isn’t going to be any assistantship money for certificate programs. You will not be eligible for an RA or TA position. Those slots are reserved for degree-seeking students.</p>

<p>Also, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program is not really as good as it sounds, MyAdvisorSays. You have to make loan payments for 10 years - and unless you’re low-income, you will have completely paid the loan off at that point. There won’t be anything left to forgive. The only place the PSLFP helps is if you’re in a low-paying job with ridiculous amounts of loans… then you go on income-based repayment and will have something left at the end to forgive. However, this means that if you get a higher-paying job midway through the period, your loan payments will go up accordingly.</p>

<p>(I have studied the PSLFP quite a bit because I’m eligible, as a federal employee.)</p>

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<p>Polarscribe, I know. The certificate program is for preparation. If I can do well enough on the GRE, prove myself in grad classes and obtain good letters of recommendation from those graduate professors then I can potentially receive a fellowship or assistantship AFTER I complete the certificate and apply to grad school. </p>

<p>Clearly, the purpose of the certificate program is being misinterpreted. It is merely to prepare me for the PhD program and point me in the direction I need to go in-i.e. I will take all Human Factors electives to meet Human Factors faculty so that I can have significant and relevant letters of recommendation. But in the long run if I am only taking out loans for 2 semesters for the certificate and then able to obtain other forms of aid for graduate school then I can potentially reduce the amount of debt I would obtain through just applying to grad school now with a sub-par GPA and ok, but not necessarily great or significant faculty recommendations.</p>

<p>I’m not sure I will even qualify for the PSLF program so that’s not something I’m counting on right now.</p>

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<p>This thread just irritates me because you cannot say that spending 5 years serving at Hooters barely making ends meet and ending up on student loan forbearance anyway is more beneficial than finding a way of going to grad school that involves accumulating the least amount of debt possible, especially in a field like I/O or Human Factors psych where there are no bachelor level positions offered at all.</p>

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<p>You asked for advice about the path you plan to take. People gave you honest answers. If that “irritates” you, maybe you shouldn’t ask for advice.</p>

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<p>I was asking for constructive advice. When I interview for grad school (which is required at the school I want to attend) and they ask me what I’ve been doing for the duration of time I’m out of school, working at Hooters isn’t exactly going to land me the spot in grad school. I mean seriously? I think it would be much better to say that I’m taking grad level courses and excelling in them. If I could get a “real” position with a company then I obviously would do that but waiting 6-12 months to find a job when I have no money is not exactly plausible.</p>

<p>Also telling me to relocate is pointless as well. I would have done that already if I had the means. The unemployment rate in my area was 9% in July. And is now still around 8+%.</p>

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<p>I’ve visited my college career center, updated my resume and had it revised at the resume center they offer on my campus, I’ve done practice job interviews and gotten feedback on how I interview, I apply to 3-4 jobs a day on my school career website and craigslist. Its very frustrating having research and internship experience and not being able to find a legitimate job. I even went to the temp agency and they pretty much told me they have nothing for me since they are so full of applicants. I’ve been doing everything I can to get a job. Its not like I’m not putting any efforts in. I also spoke to an admissions rep at a grad fair and he suggested the certificate program as a way to make my application stronger. I’m not just pulling these ideas out of the air here.</p>