Should I even waste my time?

Paying for College
1

<p>I'm planning on applying to the following institutions:
UChicago, Northwestern, Stanford, Caltech, MIT, Harvard, and possibly Brown and Carleton</p>

<p>My parents have been adamant about paying a maximum of about 15K a year. This would be fine if I would qualify for some need-based aid, but I don't think I have a chance. Here's why.</p>

<p>My dad is a physician who practices at his own clinic making 300K+ a year. He also owns a portion of a surgery center in town. My mother is unemployed. No other siblings are in college, just a sister in grade school. We just built a house somewhere in the price range of 800K.</p>

<p>So should I even check the "I will be applying for financial aid" box on the CommonApp? Will I qualify for any money?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>Maybe not… I’ll let others chime in on that. </p>

<p>But more importantly you need some safety schools on your list. Academic safeties and financial safeties.</p>

3

<p>By submitting the FAFSA, you will be eligible for a $5500 Stafford loan as a freshman. If it were me, I’d submit the forms. That way, you’ll know you TRIED to get some need based aid (which it sounds like you will NOT be eligible for at all).</p>

<p>Have your parents indicated what they hope you’ll be doing after high school? Do they want you to go to college? Do they feel one of your state public universities will be OK? Do they want you to commute from home ($15000 probably will not cover tuition/fees AND room and board for a residential college)?</p>

<p>I think it would be good for you to have a discussion about life after high school so you can hear their thoughts and they can hear yours.</p>

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<p>Stanford, MIT, Brown and Harvard to NOT give any merit scholarships. They only award need based aid. At $300K per year, your family income well exceeds even the most generous of schools for any need based institutional aid. The costs of these schools (and, frankly all the others on your list) exceeds $50,000 a year. With a family income of $300,000 a year, your family contribution will likely exceed the cost of attending ALL of the schools on your list. You will not get need based aid there. Carleton, UChi give some limited merit awards. I don’t know about NU or Cal Tech.</p>

<p>How does your family (or you) propose to pay for any of these schools should you get accepted? Will they cosign private loans (because the Stafford certainly won’t cover the costs)? Or will they take out Parent Plus loans for your education?</p>

<p>$15,000 a year will not fund these schools.</p>

<p>The biggest question you have is how you are going to pay for these expensive private colleges. Whether you apply for financial aid or not doesn’t really matter as much as a plan to pay.</p>

4

<p>They want me to go to college, but they have been planning on my going to Mississippi State University, which I absolutely will not do (I reside in Mississippi). I have applied to University of Alabama as my safety at which I will receive a full ride plus a stipend.</p>

<p>As for these expensive private colleges, I plan on paying with a combination of parental contribution, government aid, institutional aid, outside scholarships, internships, and preferably a low amount of loans.</p>

5

<p>You can certainly apply, but you won’t get any government aid. I agree you need to have a conversation with your parents, but if they will only contribute $15K per year, and you can get a Stafford loan for $5500 your freshman year, then you need to think about how you’ll fill the gap. </p>

<p>There won’t be any goverment aid beyond the unsubsidized Stafford loan (everyone who files a FAFSA can get that).</p>

<p>If you’re looking for institutional aid, it will have to be merit-based which means to have a crack at it you’ll have to apply to schools that offer merit aid, and where your stats put you near the top of accepted students.</p>

<p>Outside scholarships are usually fairly small (there are exceptions) and mostly just for the first year.</p>

<p>I’m not sure what you mean by “internships” – most internships for students your age, outside of a few narrow business fields, are unpaid and short term. Do you mean an on-campus job? Those will most likely go to students receiving federal work study, which you will not since you won’t qualify for need-based aid.</p>

<p>Your best bets for money would be summer earnings, and if you’re lucky you may be able to find an off-campus job where you can work part-time during the school year, but you’ll probably not make much more than is needed just for books and personal expenses.</p>

<p>Truly, I don’t see how you close the gap. Your efforts should probably be spent trying to work cooperatively with your parents to widen your options, even though they probably won’t include the expensive private schools on your list.</p>

6

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<p>The only government “aid” you will receive will be the Stafford loan of $5500 for freshmen. Your family contribution will be TOO HIGH to receive any institutional need based aid based on the income you have quoted here. Outside scholarships typically are not huge enough although you might hit it lucky. Just make sure that they are renewable, many are not.</p>

<p>How will you get $40,000 in any kind of aid for these expensive private schools, especially the ones that do NOT give any merit aid? How? </p>

<p>Good that you have a financial safety in the mix. Have you looked at any other possibilities? If you plan to apply for competitive merit scholarships at any schools, the ones that require a separate application have very early deadlines.</p>

<p>If you really have the stats to get accepted to an Ivy, you might also want to check into the McNair Scholarship at U of South Carolina. It is a terrific award. BUT the application is a doozie and it’s due either mid November or December 1. Check it out.</p>

<p>Also, you might want to look at University of Pittsburgh. They give out a small number of full merit awards, and they also have fairly generous merit awards for high stat kiddos they want to lure to their school. With your parent contribution of $15K and a merit award from them, this could also be affordable to you.</p>

7

<p>*As for these expensive private colleges, I plan on paying with a combination of parental contribution, government aid, institutional aid, outside scholarships, internships, and preferably a low amount of loans. *</p>

<p>You’re applying to… *UChicago, Northwestern, Stanford, Caltech, MIT, Harvard, and possibly Brown and Carleton *</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>you have gov’t aid AND loans listed, yet they’re the same thing. All you’ll get from the gov’t is loans.</p>

<p>What institutional aid would you get from private schools? You have NO demonstrated need! Which schools are you talking about that will give you institutional need?</p>

<p>You cannot depend on “internship money” to pay for college costs. First of all, new freshmen don’t often have paying internship jobs, and once you get one, the money is really just for personal expenses.</p>

<p>Outside scholarships are typically for small amounts, are ONLY FOR ONE YEAR, and often look at “financial need.” Even if you somehow got a few thousand in private scholarships for freshman year, what about years 2, 3, & 4???</p>

<p>Do the math…</p>

<p>Privates are costing $50k to $55k per year.</p>

<p>$15,000 from parents</p>

<h2>$5,500 from gov’t student loan</h2>

<p>$20,500…where is the rest coming from???</p>

<p>What is your likely major?</p>

<p>Are you going to apply to Bama’s Computer-Based Honors? You should.</p>

8

<p>Is there any way to get DOD (Dear old Dad) to do a road trip with you to your first choice school? (quickly??). Because I hear you – there is a world of difference between MIT and Mississippi State. </p>

<p>Lots of parents can be in denial about college costs. They can hope that if they refuse then somehow something will shake loose. </p>

<p>If Dad is a physician, then he knows a thing or two about labs and equipment. Taking the MIT or CalTech campus tour should open his eyes . . . big time.</p>

<p>Carlton or Brown is a harder sell. They could seem like a more expensive version of what’s available at home (I know, it’s not – but we’re talking appearences here). </p>

<p>If it were me, I would apply for financial aid (it is a way of respecting your parents request) AND I would beg, beg, beg for a trip to Boston with Dad (to see Harvard and MIT). Early Christmas present? Major concession from you? (Like you will house sit Aunt Edna’s cats and clean the litter boxes . . . ) Anyway, he needs to see what you are seeing . . .</p>

<p>It might also help if your school has Naviance – or you can use the data on the College Board site that shows how you match up with certain colleges. Your dad is going to respect data. If you can show that your GPA and SAT scores are in the top 5% of MSU students, then you can argue that you might not find the campus offerings challenging enough – and you can respectfully ask him to help you find a college where your peers would be more like you. . . </p>

<p>Your parent’s money is their money. It’s not yours – but you may be able to help them see what it is you are seeking (for starters, loose any snotty tones about MSU, particularly if it is their beloved alma mater). You can respectfully say that it is not a good fit for you. Keep your calm – and ask for options.</p>

9

<p>I would apply for financial aid (it is a way of respecting your parents request)</p>

<p>?? How is applying for FA respecting his parents’ request? What request? (Did I miss something?)</p>

<p>*My dad is a physician who practices at his own clinic making 300K+ a year. He also owns a portion of a surgery center in town. *</p>

<p>There is NO WAY this kid is going to get any need-based aid. Period. Surely the parents know this, therefore it’s unlikely they’re going to want to do the work necessary to provide paperwork, etc, to submit a CSS Profile. </p>

<p>I can understand not wanting to go to MSU if it’s in your own backyard (so to speak) and everyone from you school goes there. I’ve visited MSU and it’s a very nice school. :)</p>

<p>However, with your stats, you do have some other great merit options. :)</p>

10

<p>Remember too that some merit scholarships require the completion of the need based financial aid application forms. When both of my kids were freshmen, they had to complete these forms in order to be eligible for merit awards at their schools. This policy is not uniform regarding schools.</p>

<p>I agree she should apply for the aid (if her parents will give her the information). They might not BELIEVE that she is not eligible for need based aid until they get an award from a school. OR they could run one of the online financial aid using the Institutional Methodology. This will ONLY give them an estimate of their family contribution but it will be a good ballpark for them to at least think about and discuss.</p>

<p>One thing…if the OP’s parents graduated from a public university and the father is a physician, he may wonder WHY he/she needs to go to a more expensive school. AND I’ll add…if the OP is considering medical or law school in her future, she might want to consider the absolutely least expensive option possible for undergrad as the vast majority of med and law school students pay the full cost of attendance…and most with huge loans. If she takes out loans for undergrad, she will be very deep in the loan department when she finishes college. It doesn’t matter what her intended major is for undergrad. NO MAJOR guarantees finding a high paying job.</p>

11

<p>AND I’ll add…if the OP is considering medical or law school in her future, she might want to consider the absolutely least expensive option possible for undergrad as the vast majority of med and law school students pay the full cost of attendance…and most with huge loans.</p>

<p>Excellent point! The parents may be more willing to help with med/law school, too, if undergrad doesn’t cost much, too.</p>

<p>BTW…just to give the OP a quick idea of what his family’s EFC would be (not including assets - which many doctors have a decent amount of)</p>

<p>With just counting an income of $325k (and no assets), a family of 4, with one in college, will have an EFC of about…$84k…so, no aid from any school.</p>

12

<p>Not to mention that Dad may still be paying off his own med school debts!</p>

13

<p>Happymom makes a good point. If the parent is still paying off huge college debt from med school, he may not want to see his child in the same position.</p>

<p>Regardless…assuming huge amounts of undergrad loans is seldom a good idea. I’m glad the OP is looking at other alternatives that ARE affordable.</p>

14

<p>For many schools it is the FAFSA that is the entry point for departmental scholarships. Once in awhile there is a highly specific scholarship that is funded by an alumni and the school is eager to both please the alumni and the incoming student. </p>

<p>I also think that a student and parent working together to fill out the FAFSA can come to have better understandings of 1) the family’s financial situation and 2) the costs of modern colleges and 3) each other’s fears and values. </p>

<p>As with legislation, the devil is in the details. A student may see the bank account and think “wow, what’s the problem? We have lots!” where the parent may look at the same amount and think “We need to pay off the mortgage before retirement and Mom-in-law is going to need live-in help and Cousin Lulu needs some help because her husband has pancreatic cancer and her twin babies are just six months old.”</p>

<p>Sometimes the brain freeze is in the other direction, with the parent thinking “I went to school on five grand a year that I earned waiting tables. Fifteen grand is THREE times as much and the kid doesn’t have to lift a finger.” Ouch. I know my husband’s eyes bugged out when a financial aid officer said that today’s waiter/waitress would have to earn $22 an hour to have the same college buying power as a minimum wage job in the early '70’s. </p>

<p>So, yeah. Fill out the FAFSA. Be respectful. Be articulate about what it is you want and why – and be more than ready to make some sacrifices and trade off’s, such as no car if you go to private college – or some summer school at MSU so you can graduate early – or a willingness to pick up a well paid job skill to work summers (one of my cousins trained to repair cracks in fiberglass shower stalls. She earned $60 an hour but also spent her summers on her hands and knees in some really scummy showers). </p>

<p>Time for lots of talking . . . and listening. Good luck!</p>

15

<p>*I also think that a student and parent working together to fill out the FAFSA can come to have better understandings of 1) the family’s financial situation and 2) the costs of modern colleges and 3) each other’s fears and values. *</p>

<p>Frankly, I think if and when this family fills out a FAFSA, it will just create a more upset student. This family has very high income and if the father/doctor is like many then he has some substantial investments that will get reported. </p>

<p>I have known families in this situation who have refused to fill out the forms if they know they won’t get aid and they think the info will just cause more emotion. Plus, if the family’s finances are complicated (self-employed, assets, etc.), they may just feel it’s not worth their efforts when aid won’t be forthcoming anyway. The last thing these families usually want is their child seeing some huge EFC from assets/income and the parents saying, “we will only give you $15k.”</p>

<p>I realize that some schools ask for FA paperwork for merit consideration, but so far, I don’t think there aren’t any such schools on his list. And, if there aren’t any, why would the family bother? I think you can now submit for a student loan without parent info.</p>

16

<p>you need to look at Vandy and Rice. Both offer excellent academics and offer some full ride merit scholarships - you’d need excellent (outstanding) stats, but you have ivy aspirations, so maybe it’s possible.</p>

17

<p>Vandy does offer some merit, but it’s very unlikely that a non-minority from nearby Mississippi is going to get much. Vandy uses their merit to target students who are from unlikely states and who are URMs.</p>

<p>However, as a NMF, the student would get $5k, but that’s not nearly enough to cut the $60k COA down to the $15k the parents will pay.</p>

18

<p>I am a parent. My kid has been accepted by Caltech and is waiting for response from Harvard and Stanford. I don’t think Caltech will offer any merit-based scholarship, according to their website and application form. Am I missing something?</p>

<p>I am willing to pay 60,000K a year for four years but the problem is that my kid wants to study medicine, that’s another expensive four years. So, the option is, either she takes loan for her medical school or she takes a school with full-ride for under.</p>

19

<p>I have know many a medical and dental student who took the full ride and never looked back.</p>