I want to double major in math and computer science. Given that I already know what I want to do and want to pursue graduate studies, should I look at liberal art colleges?
I know I’d prefer a specialized 4 years with the courses that I’m interested in and not being burdened with having to take courses that I don’t really want so I don’t know if LACs are the place for me. However almost all of my guidance counselors are telling me to go to LACs based on small size, ability to stick out and better relations with the professor.
Opinions?
Math and CS are two subjects where students need to be picky about which LACs are suitable in terms of course offerings and frequency of offerings, since there are many LACs whose departments in those subjects are rather small and therefore offer limited numbers of courses or specialty subareas, or offer advanced courses very infrequently.
If you are highly advanced in math (i.e. completion of college math beyond the AP calculus BC level before high school graduation), you may find that many LACs may be limiting because students as advanced as you are often want to take graduate level math courses and do graduate level research as undergraduates.
You can check course catalogs, schedules, and faculty rosters at each school to see whether they will have enough to keep you interested, particularly at the junior/senior(/graduate) level.
Could you give me some examples of the LACs with particularly good math and comp sci programs
Harvey Mudd, Williams.
You can add Caltech. The undergraduate college is smaller than most LACs.
If you do a search here on LACs and math, you’ll find this topic has been covered. For example:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/906140-best-lac-math-programs.html
“I know I’d prefer a specialized 4 years”
If you want the freedom to pursue courses virtually all of your own choosing, a few liberal arts colleges such as Hamilton and Amherst have open curricula which allow this.
There is value in taking general education requirements - the purpose of liberal arts education is to produce well-rounded individuals. Moreover, it’s not just LACs that do that; most universities offer a liberal arts education and require general education requirements. For example, Columbia has the Core.
However, if math and CS are your interest and you want a more specialized course, consider attending a technical school or university (like Georgia Tech, Colorado School of Mines, MIT, RIT, WPI, RPI - something along those lines).
Professors from these schools appear to have been the first to actively initiate and design a model CS curriculum for liberal arts colleges:
Allegheny
Amherst
Bowdoin
Colgate
Hamilton
Swarthmore
Vassar
Washington & Lee
Williams
(Information from the Liberal Arts Computer Science Consortium.)
MIT has extensive general education requirements, including in the humanities, arts, and social studies, so a student wanting a more open curriculum may not find it to be the optimal school. The same applies to some other technically-oriented schools like Harvey Mudd and Caltech.
Of non-LAC schools, Brown is the best known for lack of general education requirements.
What math class are you currently in?
What are your stats (gpa, test scores)?
What’s in state for you?
In recent years, these liberal arts colleges have had a particularly high number of math majors: Bowdoin, Carleton, Hamilton, Harvey Mudd, Pomona, St. Olaf, Swarthmore and Williams. By percentage, most would exceed schools such as UChicago and MIT. (From USNWR data.)
LAC’s are good(IMO) because they offer a smaller more intimate learning environment …taught by a professor not a TA . the professor is also not running some big lab and teaching undergrads is at the bottom of lists of what they do.
the rest of the LAC “mission” to me is a waste. but you can steer clear of a much of the basketweaving stuff at a lot of LAC’s. just my opinion!
The 3-minute Youtube video “My Sewanee Story: Johnny” does a good job of succinctly showing benefits of studying math at an LAC, IMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW-hee0oSYg I believe the student in the video is currently pursuing a PhD at UC Santa Cruz.
The ability to work one-to-one with faculty members at many LACs cannot be overestimated in my view.
@MYO
I am an international student doing A levels. I need financial aid and have a 2200 sat score and alot of ecas.
currently studying furthur math, highest math A level
Those two things are very important to know. I’m not sure if this Wiki is up to date but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission#U.S._institutions_that_are_need-blind_for_U.S._applicants_and_meet_full_demonstrated_need
Re: #15
You probably meant the much smaller list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission#U.S._institutions_that_are_need-blind_and_meet_full_demonstrated_need_for_both_U.S._and_international_students , since the OP is an international student.
But the net price calculator at each school’s web site should be a more reliable estimator of financial aid, since each school may have a different definition of “need”.
However, junior/senior level math courses in college tend to be small faculty led classes. Frosh/soph honors math courses, when offered, also tend to be small. So the advantage of a LAC in this aspect is less for math majors who are relatively advanced than for many other students.
CS has experienced a large increase in popularity recently. So many schools (LAC or otherwise) have had to make a choice between hiring more adjuncts or TAs for CS, increasing CS class sizes, and/or limiting access to CS courses. Sometimes, a school’s class schedule can reveal class sizes, use of TAs or adjuncts, and/or whether the classes are completely full.
These problems are far less pervasive at LACs, and at top LACs you won’t find any classes taught by adjuncts or TAs, even in CS departments.
Look up CSCI005 at Harvey Mudd at https://my.pomona.edu/ics/Academics/Academics_Homepage.jnz?portlet=Claremont_Undergraduate_Course_Schedule .
The main section 01 has 224 students enrolled out of a capacity of 225. Section 02 is the “black” section where students with previous CS experience are enrolled by instructor placement; it has 40 students enrolled out of a capacity of 70. Section 03 is for non-Harvey Mudd students; it has 131 students enrolled out of a capacity of 132.
So here we have a top LAC where the introductory CS course is both large and almost completely full.