Should I incur debt for Bryn Mawr?

Parents Forum
1

<p>From Bryn Mawr, I got a small sum of money per year and a Stafford Loan (unsub) of $3,500, which will increase each year. So I'll end up with about $19,000 of a Stafford Loan and the rest I'll take with an alternative student loan. My parents said that that will mean me paying between $60,000 - $100,000 on my own in loans. I am in love with Bryn Mawr. The people there are absolutely incredible; if I went there I feel like I would become a totally different person, just because of the way the environment would shape and challenge me. I feel that Bryn Mawr would open tons of doors for me. I plan to go into anthropology or something humanities related, possibly even pre-law.</p>

<p>My other option is St. Mary's College of Maryland. Now it's a good school of course but not as good as Bryn Mawr, and the environment is definitely nothing like Bryn Mawr...it would be an entirely different experience. And it would cost me about half as much. Is it worth it to go to Bryn Mawr?</p>

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<p>Do you have a bank that will GIVE you such a loan, or is it a non-issue?</p>

<p>I can't tell you "what it is worth".</p>

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<p>As a parent, I would make that expenditure <em>in that particular pairing</em> for my D. This assumes that I can. For many, it would be a moot question. Fwiw, I'm looking at the differential cost, not the absolute, in making my opinion.</p>

<p>Please understand that BMC is in my personal top 20 or so colleges...I dunno, I've never ranked the ones that I really really like.</p>

<p>Good luck and peace be unto you as you make your decision.</p>

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<p>Well, I do have a bank that would give me that kind of loan. At least, my dad is really good with money and says I can take out those kinds of loans, so I believe him.</p>

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<p>Okay. So, $60k at 7% interest (if you can get it), paid out over 10 years would be $696.65 each month. The Debt Wizard says if you are to pay it back at a maximum of 8% of your gross income (which is what banks use in their figuring), you will need an average annual salary of $104,467.67 in the first 10 years out of school.</p>

<p>$100k at 7% over 10 years is $1,161.05. The Debt Wizard says you would need an average annual salary of $174,162.72.</p>

<p>Will your parents be co-signing? That's fine - it's just that it is better than 50/50 that they will be paying the bulk of it.</p>

<p>It still may be worth it. If Bryn Mawr gave you no aid, it is likely your family income is upwards of $170k per year at a minimum, and will likely grow, so THEY will be paying it off in deflated dollars.</p>

<p>Is it worth it? Thems that does the paying gets to decide.</p>

<p>$19k in Stafford is absolutely the average for college student debt (besides credit cards), so it is no accident that they came up with that figure, 'cause they believe (rightly or wrongly) that your parents can pay the rest. And they likely will - either now or later.</p>

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<p>Well, see, the number I gave you is the number after my parents have made their contribution. Part of that total number would be Stafford Loan, part of it the alternative student loan. My dad calculated it to be about $900 a month at least. Apparently, the alt student loan can be extended to even 25 years. </p>

<p>I just want to know what kinds of doors I'm closing by taking on this kind of debt. Don't talk in broad, general terms either. Is grad school still a possibility? What's my likely salary to be when I get out of college? What are possible options during undergrad, between undergrad and grad and during grad that I can take advantage of?</p>

<p>For the record, Bryn Mawr requires that you work in the dining hall for freshman year for at least 8 hours, at $7.10 an hour; so that gives me spending money.</p>

<p>And then during the summers, I have a job for $10 an hour full time, and also a second job for $6.50 at sporadic times (working at a concert venue).</p>

<p>I also have money saved for a computer already. (I know all these numbers I just mentioned are peanuts but I figured I'd include it).</p>

<p>See the thing is, my parents are both pretty old (mom 61, dad 57) and they've got to retire soon, and I don't want to explain the financial situation in detail because they asked me not to but they don't have an endless source of money to give me. (Who does :)).</p>

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<p>I have no idea what kind of career you are headed toward, but the average college grad is going to earn the first year something between $30k and $50k. More for engineers. Toward the higher end for nurses and accountants. </p>

<p>Let's say $40k for sake of argument. Paying out 8% of your gross income over 10 years (at 7%), the maximum amount of debt you can afford to carry is $22,067.03. Paid out over 25 years, it would be $37,729.89. You see that neither is anywhere near $60k, no less $100k, which is why I say, as cosigners on the loan, your parents are going to end up paying it, not you. Yes, you can eat Top Ramen two meals a day for a couple of years, and dumpster-dive for the third; live without a car; quadruple up in an apartment, and go without health insurance. You still won't be able to carry $100k in loans, though you might get a little closer to $60k.</p>

<p>Grad school is possible, provided you don't take on any more debt (even credit card). Law school, med school, business school are out.</p>

<p>You can play with the numbers yourself. Here's two sites:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.studentloans.com/myf_debtwizard.cfm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentloans.com/myf_debtwizard.cfm&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.bankrate.com/brm/popcalc2.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bankrate.com/brm/popcalc2.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Let me make clear: I LOVE Bryn Mawr. It's just that making the numbers work without your parents ending up paying a good part of the debt is very rough.</p>

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<p>I'm trying to imagine your situation. If your promised finaid from Bryn Mawr was that small, then perhaps your family has money, either in income power or assets --such as, own their house perhaps, since they're older parents. Older parents have the problem that they wont' be earning much longer so can't repay a loan with the same vigor as someone 45 years old and still able to work for another 20 years. </p>

<p>Are you ready to promise them that they can always live with you in their old age, no matter how old and sick they get? That might ease their minds, realizing YOU could take care of THEM someday and you're saying you WILL. </p>

<p>Are there other siblings they need to save for, or are you an only child?</p>

<p>At the moment, I feel as though you and your folks wandered into an expensive restaurant, they opened the menu (let you apply, that is) and are saying, "you can order tuna or beef wellington, but you have to pay for the dinner with your allowance" when you have $20/week allowance and they earn $150K or whatever. </p>

<p>Why is the entire burden of repaying for your education on your shoulders alone, if you go to Bryn Mawr? </p>

<p>Are they willing to pay all of St. Mary's and asking you to pay the difference between the 2 schools...or are you also the sole payer for St. Mary's which costs half?</p>

<p>Where is their half, in other words, if you choose BrynMawr -- because if they were ready to pay for St. Mary's it seems they should be ready to pay for half of Bryn Mawr and you'd be repaying half, not all, of the loans towards Bryn Mawr.</p>

<p>If your dad is ready to line you up with loans that big, i'm concerned for you. Are you sure you're understanding what your dad means when he speaks about this? Does he talk or write it down for you, as he talks? (get him to write it so he slows down for you). </p>

<p>Ask him to write out ON PAPER exactly who's responsible for what. And ask him if he expects you to pay back Nothing, Half, or All of each of the two colleges.</p>

<p>I grew up in Maryland and while St. Mary's is very nice, you are comparing a good split-level house to a mansion. Of course Bryn Mawr dazzles by comparison. The question is whether your parents are saying they can only afford/expect/want to maneuver you into accepting a split level. Lots of people live just fine in split levels, but mansions are actually better. You just might be able to get by in a split level. </p>

<p>If you find money hard to discuss, maybe a friend can sit with you and help you listen and ask the right questions of your dad. Or ask you GC to be that "friend" and do it in her office.</p>

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<p>Well, I would be paying about half of it, and my parents would pay about half. Their financial situation gets tricky in the junior year, which is why it could be $60 to $100K. They have a bunch of debt in the basement (which was recently finished) and then the house, and they plan to use the equity from the house to go into retirement.</p>

<p>See the FAFSA says we have an EFC of $42,000, and my parents (and financial aid officers at schools) say that it might be different if they were 42 years old, but they're not.</p>

<p>My parents say they would try to help me as much as I possibly can. Perhaps I need to speak to them again, but I just asked my mom and that was the figure she gave me.</p>

<p>I am the only child. My family doesn't have any money saved up, but my parents earn a good salary. We're middle class (which is unfortunate for this situation).</p>

<p>As for St. Mary's, I would still pay half and they would pay half of the total costs.</p>

<p>By the way, Bryn Mawr would cost about $160,000 - $200,000 in total costs for four years. (I think $200K is a bit of a stretch though).</p>

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<p>"I am the only child. My family doesn't have any money saved up, but my parents earn a good salary."</p>

<p>Ah, there's the rub. NO college expects you (or your parents) to pay for college out of current income, but out of past savings (accruing in value all the time), or in future income (and paying in deflated dollars after you graduate.) It is NOT your middle class status that is burning you (in fact, your family income puts you in the top 3% of families in the United States), but the lack of assets that usually accompany it.</p>

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<p>Heh. And ironically, my dad didn't want to save partially because he thought we would be less likely to get financial aid. Looks like it's killing us though >></p>

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<p>That is some sad thinking on your dad's part. His misguided priorities are the biggest part of your problem, and should be a lesson to others. </p>

<p>Don't let his lack of sound thinking impact the rest of your life. As others have pointed out, taking on an excess of $50,000 in loans is going to harness you to debt for many years. You'll also be perpetuating the situation for another generation - you won't have money for a house down payment for your own family, or a college fund for your own children. College debt has gotten much harder to escape. Recognize it for the prison it is.</p>

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<p>I'm probably in the minority here, but I think too many people play it safe and don't take a chance when an opportunity comes their way. If you believe that Bryn Mawr presents you with such an opportunity, then I'd say go for it. Follow your dream--think big. .</p>

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<p>That's fine. Now will you explain "how"? (without the assumption of the parents paying off the debt?)</p>

<p>Give her some help.</p>

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<p>It sounds like your thinking you might one day like to go to grad school. That would add more debt.
Would you one day like to have a family? Kids cost money.
I know a young family. Both parents about 30. Both still paying on student loans. Living in a small apartment. Their 4 yr old wants to take gymnastics. It is just the start. And in 14 years that little girl is going to want to go to college.</p>

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<p>I'm not a financial aid expert, but the first thing she might do is go back to Bryn Mawr financial aid. Make her case and ask if they can do better. The school has a very large endowment and according to their stats 60% of the students get financial aid. It never hurts to ask; all they can say is no.</p>

<p>Seems to me she ought to figure out ways to cut down on the amount of money she'll have to borrow. Several ideas come to mind. Summer jobs--waitressing at high-end resort areas can yield several hundred per week in tips (my d did it). Check out scholarships--there are lots of scholarships in the $500-1000. My d's high school offers a number of such scholarships from various organizations/individuals in the community; all of these are administered by the school and are there for the taking, if you're a good student and can write a letter making your case. There are all kinds of web sites with lists of small scholarships as well. These might not amount to much individually, but they can add up. Money from scholarships reduces her loan amounts. Do some research on volunteer programs which will help fund your education if you work with them for a year before starting college. I know there is a program called City Year that does this. The OP needs to be proactive and start coming up with ways that she might reduce the amount that she'll have to pay back in loans. She'll have to be creative and resourceful. As i said, none of these are going to yield huge amounts, but everything she can do to reduce her loans will help. </p>

<p>To respond to mom60--two 30 yr. olds who can't afford to pay for a gymnastics class (that costs what--$15-20 per session at a private club and probably less at a community rec program) for their daughter sound like losers to me. I don't think the OP falls into that category.</p>

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<p>Note that Bryn Mawr already seems to have assumed her working summers and during the school year. They figured a 42k EFC, and cost of attendance is about 49k.</p>

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<p>stillRver, you've got an odd sense of arithmetic. If your D was able to bundle the $500 from the garden club with the $250 from the Board of Realtors and come up with a meaningful sum which could reduce her loan obligation than great.... but to me (and believe me, my kids applied for everything under the sun and won several....) it amounts to a semester's lab fees and a textbook, hardly a meaningful amount.... plus Freshman year only. Coupled with your snarky comment about mom60's friends.... H and I were paying off undergrad plus grad loans when we were 30, plus paying childcare expenses, and believe me, we did nothing extra... not gymnastics, not music, no nothing. We weren't losers, we were people who were paying off loans while saving for a down payment; we paid the loans off early and now own a house free and clear.... so why you'd call people who take their financial obligations seriously losers is beyond me.</p>

<p>Posters are trying to help the OP conceptualize how someone in her situation with parents whose retirement is looming should think about borrowing. More power to you if you can wave a magic wand and make mountains of debt disappear so you can have discretionary income for extras... most 30 year olds buried in college loans don't have that luxury.</p>

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<p>"that will mean me paying between $60,000 - $100,000 on my own in loans."</p>

<p>Stop the madness. If you want my advice, don't take on this much personal debt at this phase of your life. I would say the same even if you didn't plan to go to grad school, and even if your dream school were MIT or Wharton, where typical graduates can find unusually high starting salaries. With the facts as they are, I think it's an even bigger mistake to borrow that much.</p>

<p>You might revisit the question in a couple of years when you're a potential junior transfer and could hypothetically get the same BMC degree borrowing only half as much.</p>

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<p>When I was your age Bryn Mawr was my dream school, strictly because Kathryn Hepburn went there. Instead, I went to Tulane on full scholarhip and loved every single minute of it. One of my kids had an almost ivy dream school costing $200k over 4years, but luckily got a huge scholarship to a different school and fell in love with the scholarship school. She is loving every single second of it.</p>

<p>In addition to the above advice, let me add, not to be a complete dream crusher but just the cold water of real life, if in the future you would (god forbid) decide to go w/o health insurance to make ends meet, hope and pray you don't ever get sick. Said child at the scholarship school had an emergency appendectomy this school year and the bill, just for the hospital, just for one night plus the OR, was $33,000. The doctors were another $10,000 roughly. Appendicitis is about as simple as it gets and bam! you're $43k in the hole w/o health insurance, and all in less than 24 hours start to finish.</p>

<p>Like I said, the cold water of reality.</p>