<p>coureur: I’m Asian, and the situation is different in our culture. Drive through any predominately Asian neighborhood and you’ll find all kinds of businesses that offer specialized tutoring and college counseling. Some specialize in SAT II tutoring; others specialize in writing essays. These businesses aren’t found in largely Hispanic, largely white, or largely black areas where I live. These businesses are booming, and it’s not just the rich families that send their kids there. Almost all of my Asian friends, most of whom are lower middle class to middle class, have parents who think nothing of spending $4,000 for a class to help them prepare for the SAT or ACT or $1,000 for a class on a SAT II subject test or $2,000 on a class that helps students develop essays. They can’t really afford to pay this much, but they do. My friends go to these schools almost year-round. Most of their parents are not highly educated. Most can’t speak English. It’s just an Asian thing.</p>
<p>Here is where I am confused. Someone who worked one year in admissions at Dartmouth a thousand years ago charges $40,000 for private college counseling, and some kid who recently was admitted to Harvard charges $500, and people want to tar and feather the $500 person.</p>
<p>^ lol, that was basically the gist of my first post, and i was subsequently labeled as the source of all evil in the world</p>
<p>how about i’ll charge you 50 bucks? That’s even less. Or a even better deal - my 4 year old cousin will charge 25 bucks per person. </p>
<p>There’s a difference between who’s offering the help. </p>
<p>Anyway, I’d never use counselling of any sort.</p>
<p>“Here is where I am confused. Someone who worked one year in admissions at Dartmouth a thousand years ago charges $40,000 for private college counseling, and some kid who recently was admitted to Harvard charges $500, and people want to tar and feather the $500 person.”</p>
<p>What’s unethical is offering to “revise heavily” the student’s essay. Offering advice and guidance isn’t unethical even if one charges $40 k. Rewriting someone’s essay or application is what would be unethical.</p>
<p>“Northstarmom, you really think pointing out grammar errors in a college essay is unethical? I can’t imagine many adults asked to look over a student’s essay who wouldn’t point out such errors. I also don’t think it’s unethical to say things like, “This second paragraph is vague, and your conclusion is weak,” etc.”</p>
<p>I’m saying fixing the grammar is unethical such as if a parent or consultant goes through and fixes all of a student’s grammatical errors.</p>
<p>I don’t see anything unethical with a parent fixing grammatical errors-admissions officers expect (and encourage) that essays are shown to parents, teachers or someone else that has a firm grasp of the English language. And this is not just for grammatical errors but also for good flow, etc. It’s the same as preparing any other important paper such as a proposal, report, speech. Only a fool (or a uber-genius writer) would not show it to others to edit and comment. We have writing tutors for our papers at Stanford (that we are encouraged to see) who will help us fix grammatical errors and give advice to the flow of a paper (assignment, report, etc) for God sakes! So I don’t really see where NSM gets off with it being unethical for college essays. As for when it stops being ethical, IMO, that’s when you lose the original author’s voice. Perhaps coincidentally, that’s when you start to get rejected too.</p>
<p>If he wanted to scam you, he would be charging you a lot more. My daughter tutored someone for two days on her biology final. The kid had a C+ going into the exam, but ended up with a B. My daughter was paid $800 for two days of work. My daughter organized the kid’s notes, helped her focus on what may get tested on. My daughter graduated from the same high school, so she had a pretty good idea on what could be on the test (it was 5 years ago when she took the class). Was that cheating or unethical? I don’t think so.</p>
<p>Many parents from our HS send their kids to essay writing boot camps. They cost thousands $. Those essays are looked at and critic by top tier school’s adcom. Is that unethical? If this Harvard kid is a good writer, that alone would be worth $500 to go over your son’s essays. If you don’t know this person, I would ask him to go over one essay with you, hear what he has to say, then determine if he is worth it. Of course, you could tell him what kind of help you would like for your son.</p>
<p>My friend, who is a great writer and does marketing, packaged her son and got him admitted to Dartmouth. The son was an A-, no honors student, but he was the only student that got into Dartmouth ED that year. Could he have gotten in without his mother’s help? Probably not. Is he doing very well at Dartmouth? Yes, high GPA, thriving socially. </p>
<p>I can’t write. I would pay someone $500 to go over my kid’s essays if he is good. We paid thousand $ for SAT tutoring.</p>
<p>Wow… 800 bucks for two days… wow.</p>
<p>There is nothing ethical about the admission process to IVY league colleges anymore. So do it. Some people have the affrimative action helping them, you will have a person. No difference there, same moral level.</p>
<p>“Here is where I am confused. Someone who worked one year in admissions at Dartmouth a thousand years ago charges $40,000 for private college counseling, and some kid who recently was admitted to Harvard charges $500, and people want to tar and feather the $500 person.”</p>
<p>What’s unethical is offering to “revise heavily” the student’s essay. Offering advice and guidance isn’t unethical even if one charges $40 k. Rewriting someone’s essay or application is what would be unethical.</p>
<hr>
<p>Please don’t tell me you believe that highly paid college admission consultants do not tear down essays and help reconstruct them. At $40,000 for some consultants, they care about results and testimonials. If an essay needs a tear down, it will get a tear down. If you don’t believe this, you’re being naive.</p>
<hr>
<p>“Northstarmom, you really think pointing out grammar errors in a college essay is unethical? I can’t imagine many adults asked to look over a student’s essay who wouldn’t point out such errors. I also don’t think it’s unethical to say things like, “This second paragraph is vague, and your conclusion is weak,” etc.”</p>
<p>I’m saying fixing the grammar is unethical such as if a parent or consultant goes through and fixes all of a student’s grammatical errors.</p>
<hr>
<p>So proofreading and identifying grammatical errors is unethical? We disagree. Any piece of written work that can be reviewed and proofread should be reviewed and proofread. Whether that’s by a parent, teacher, consultant, or friend doesn’t matter. Most good writing has been vetted by someone other than the author. Unethical is having someone else write it, not having someone read it and suggest revisions.</p>
<p>Often with student writing that I have read, I find myself writing in the margin “what exactly do you mean here?” The writer and I talk about the intended meaning and then the writer revises to more accurately reflect that meaning. I don’t think that’s unethical. </p>
<p>It sounds like if my student writes an essay and I read it and simply circle grammatical errors in red and then the student rewrites, you think that’s unethical. If so, we disagree.</p>
<p>YAHA: How the hell is that the same morally? You don’t choose what race you are, you do however choose to pay someone to write your essay for you.</p>
<p>Yes, I just don’t believe in the essay part. If they want, they should change it into a 3 hours essay writing in SAT style, so students write their OWN essay, talking about themselves, by themselves.</p>
<p>At our high school all of the senior english teachers have the students write college essays as an early assignment for the class. They are reviewed by the teacher, commented on, workshopped with the class, and graded. I find nothing wrong with this. Correcting grammar is not unethical. Nor is taking the time to get to know the student, brainstorming with him and helping him find a terrific topic for his essay. It is a wonderful teacher or counselor who can bring out the best in the student. And it takes time and may require a fee. This is not a breach of ethics by either party. Writing the essay from soup to nuts is wrong, but those who find the offer made to the OP objectionable may be making the worst assumptions. I have no problem with this assistance and know that when my children applied to college their competition probably had a lot more help than what the Harvard senior is offering.</p>
<p>“It sounds like if my student writes an essay and I read it and simply circle grammatical errors in red and then the student rewrites, you think that’s unethical.”</p>
<p>Nope. I said if the parent or consultant fixes the errors. Pointing out the errors is fine IMO.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, the OP is considering paying someone to “revise heavily” his student’s college essay. To me, “revise heavily” means rewriting, and that’s what I think would be unethical. Pointing out errors, suggesting a change of topic, suggesting that the student has buried the lead or could end the essay in a more interesting way – I don’t have problems with that kind of editing.</p>
<p>You are right that one doesnt choose the biological factors such as race, disabilities, etc. However, when a system, giving preference to candidates with certain biological qualities over candidates lacking those qualities regardless of or overlooking their merits, is in place, there is nothing moral in it. It has nothing to do with meritocracy, although most of those schools claim meritocracy to be their admission motto. By the same token, if a person tries to bend their application in a way that would increase their chances to be admitted by using “services” of an insider, there is also next to no morality involved. </p>
<p>P.S. What ever happened to prideful students who dont see themselves as “black”, “asian”, or having some other “hook” and just look at themselves as a suiting candidate to be admitted to top school and build their apps around merits and not their skin color?</p>
<p>College admission reminds me of athletics. The top young American athletes (Michael Phelps, Shawn Johnson, etc.) had great talent, but they also had something else – the opportunity to have intense specialized training at very young ages. There’s no doubt there were other young people out there who were even more talented but didn’t have access to the coaching they needed to reach their potentials. </p>
<p>Ditto for academics. Every student accepted into top colleges had talent, but many of those had huge advantages that others didn’t have, whether it be paid consultants, mothers who are professional writers, fathers who are geniuses, etc. The playing field is not level. I think we have to accept that fact. Some people take their advantages arguably too far, be it through exaggerated racial classifications or paid help on essays, but I think most competitive students do everything possible to get accepted. Some just have bigger and better tools to use than the rest of us. </p>
<p>As a student few tools to use, and all of those are small, I am a little jealous of those with bigger tools. I wish the process was more fair, but I will live with the fact that it is not.</p>
<p>I will say this much, however. If I had a mother who was a professional writer, I would have no problem working with her intensely to improve my essays. If I had a father who was a math and science genius, I would lean on him for help all of the time. I also wouldn’t turn down a $40,000 advisor if my parents could afford one. I don’t blame anyone for utilizing the resources available to them. I wish them well.</p>
<p>One more thing. I have a friend who plans on writing an essay about his background that is absolutely not true. The subject matter can’t be verified, so the colleges won’t know he’s lying. He’s very creative and loves acting. In an interview, he’d have no problem pulling off the lie. I wonder if this is more common than we think? </p>
<p>It just goes to show what people are willing to do to get into top schools.</p>
<p>
Well, alrighty, then. I agree with that. I would never fix the errors myself–heck, sometimes I won’t tell my kids what the error is, just that there is one there…I’ll say something like, “Did you REALLY proofread this?”</p>
<p>The vast majority on CC always come out to say that college consultants are not worth it. I always disagree with them. We hired a good one for our third child and kicked ourselves for missing the opportunity with the first two. It can be a huge advantage for many kids IMO. The professionals are no different from hiring an accountant to do your taxes because they know more loopholes.</p>
<p>The question here is different. This is not a professional. Would you hire a kid whose only background is getting himself in and we have no idea if his essay played a critical role? That I wouldn’t do. We don’t know if he got in because he was an oboe player from South Dakota, a legacy, a football player or had something the school just wanted. An expert at positioning which is what essay writing is about? Probably not.</p>
<p>Now there are some ivy kids who run an essay business guided by a marketing professional ivy grad who can prove their essays were considered the best at their ivy. They just helped my niece for considerably less than $500 and she came away for a brilliant essay. Money very well spent IMO because her family could not afford the big guns. That group I’d hire.</p>