@moneydad actually, I was very involved in the Oberlin Republican club. That’s primarily the reason why I was hated by many students, but I had an incredible experience, nevertheless.
@Studious99 actually, I don’t mind the college campus to be “liberal”. I only want college campus where even the Liberals can have a respectful dialogue… now, CMC may be “liberal” because some students have successfully blocked conservative speakers. However, I’ve heard reports that compared to many schools, CMC has fair number of Libertarians and Republicans.
@happymomof1 Maybe big state school is too big for me. I am still searching for a size of around 4000 to 12,000 students.
Then take a look at the second tier non-flagship universities. Lots of those would be in the size range you are looking for. The challenge for you could be identifying ones that are small enough for your tastes, but also with good departments for your major.
I just re-checked your current list. I’m pretty sure that Cornell is bigger than 12,000. However it can feel quite a bit smaller because each of the colleges is somewhat separate from each other. In Econ, you might never have a good reason to leave the CAS part of campus. Truth be told, most big Us are like that. Once you settle in to your department, you can easily ignore the rest of the place if you really want to.
“I was very involved in the Oberlin Republican club.”
Evidently, not to the extent of updating their website, just sayin’…
CC Super-moderator Alexandre attended both U Michigan and Cornell, he has posted numerous times that substantially they felt the same size to him. Not that they were the same size, but the student attendance experience was essentially the same.
I guess past a certain size it doesn’t much matter anymore.
So if Cornell works for you, you might look into U Michigan. OR UCLA. Or Penn State. Or…
Bigger school, or school in/ near a big city, might be favorable for you socially.
Thank you all for the help. I’ll look over all the colleges that were suggested.
@monydad instead of updating the website, our club made Facebook page. We find this a better and more direct way to communicate. If anyone likes dissenting perspectives or “trolls” in a deepest echo chamber, follow us on Facebook @theRealOCRL
To give you a different perspective, I am an employer and given the trends emanating from Oberlin, I would not hire a recent graduate. I’m all for fairness and equality, but some of the stuff going on on Oberlin’s campus borders on ridiculous and, as a business owner, I would not want to hire someone whose mission is to create havoc. It’s just not worth the risk. And I am not alone in this feeling, as this topic was discussed in an entrepreneur’s group I belong to - a group that includes people of varying political ideologies. It’s hard enough to run a business without having an employee who is threatening to sue every time they don’t get their way. This is the impression one gets of many Oberlin students nowadays: they are whiny brats. For example, when a student wants a passing grade for a class that they failed because they were busy protesting, it says to me that they will not be a reliable employee.
@vango I hope you take a holistic look at some Oberlin graduates. In my experience, the conservatives in Oberlin are in a deep entrenched environment while keeping their heads up for the brighter future. I’ve seen some of the most hardest workers who are far removed from the free labor protestors. But if you don’t mind me asking, if I do graduate from Oberlin, what would you recommend on ways for me to distinguish myself from the bad reputation of Oberlin? Personally, I find the academic very stimulating and I’m sure many grads can still add great knowledge to their workforce.
@Vango, suggest you keep an open mind about that. There are alums of this school who were not part of all that noise, and in fact didn’t like it. Like my D1, so I clearly have a vested interest. But it’s true.
We all hire individuals, not a school. At any school, all individuals in attendance are not exactly the same. If they were, you wouldn’t need to interview anybody !!
The school has a long and deserved reputation for serious scholarship and academic excellence, which should not be ignored, regardless of the presence of a certain faction there…
Let’s not paint everybody with the same brush.
@whatcha, the simplest answer is get a graduate degree from someplace else.
Out of undergrad: there are (or were) various internship opportunities available through Oberlin. If you do one and impress somebody you can maybe get a job that way. Put stuff on you resume- such as these internships, maybe even Republican Club- that might mentally distinguish you from the “undesirable” stereotype. Once you are in the workplace (and even before), what you have done, and can do, becomes a lot more significant than where you went to college for undergrad.
As for the last, it has tradiationally been that case that a graduate of this college signified high intellect and academic achievement, which was a good thing.
@whatcha I appreciate the dilemma you face. The issue for an employer is that once you have invited someone for an interview, you open yourself to discrimination charges if you do not hire that person if they can make a case for bias based on gender, sexual orientation, race, etc. And the issue is, while they may perceive bias, that may have nothing to do with why they were not chosen. The unfortunate aspect of this is that employers try to glean as much as they can from a resume before making a decision to interview - and because not all resumes are created equal, a perfectly good candidate may be avoided based on their resume. If I saw that a student was actively involved in what I feel are controversial matters, I would not want to bring that into my workplace. As I said, I’m all for fairness and equality, but at the end of the day, I have a business to run and I do not want to deal with people who are constantly aggrieved. I treat my employees equally and fairly, so there is no reason for them to be aggrieved. That said, I will not pay them for a day of work if they decided they needed to go protest (they can do that on their own time or take a vacation day). I also would not want to hire someone who feels the workplace is an appropriate place to advance their agenda or who is not respectful of the fact that people have different beliefs, political leanings, etc. I wouldn’t want to hire someone who I felt would harass another employee because they voted for the opposing candidate, etc. I know of far too many cases where an employee who is doing a poor job either quits or is fired and then claims they were discriminated against so that they can sue the company or at the very least acquire unemployment benefits. If I get any sense of this from a resume, then I don’t bring that person in. So I would suggest that you structure you resume to reflect the characteristics most employers value. I know this is somewhat subjective, but I think there are universals that every employer values, such as taking initiative, being able to work in a team, being on time, etc. That said, I am sure there are employers in certain fields (say, social work), that would appreciate the same Oberlin student that I would avoid. So I would say that researching the company you apply to, to understand their corporate culture, and tailoring your resume to that culture, would be the way to go. And once you have an employment history with related accomplishments, where you went to school won’t really matter (in most cases).
@monydad I absolutely get what you are saying. I know that not all Oberlin students embrace the wackiness going on there, but the problem is, a majority do (at least that is what I have gleaned from my reading on the subject). If I get dozens of resumes for a job, I need a way to cull that down to a reasonable number. While it may shortchange a deserving person like your daughter, having shortcuts (like excluding graduates of certain schools that have problematic campus cultures) works for me. As I said, I am trying to run a business and I don’t want to get stuck with a employee that is going to cause nothing but problems.
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Most printed material that I’ve seen does not go so far as to detail the proportion of the student body involved in certain events, so evidently you have different sources.
FWIW, what you “have gleaned from your reading” does not completely correspond to what my D1 shared with me.
From what I was told, certainly @watcha’s club is not likely to be an enrollment leader on campus any time soon. Politically there are many Democrats, liberals, and then onwards from there. And there is a large group, particularly in the conservatory, that for the most part could care less. There is a radical contingent that is possibly more represented, and intrusive, and reported about, than at some other colleges. But D1 represented this to me as an annoying and vocal contingent, not a majority. Her primary complaint mostly took the form of “PC run amok”. Not “refusal to work”.
But I didn’t go there, so that’s all second-hand heresay, and from ten years ago at that.
If your sources indeed surveyed the student body, appropriately, and found majority percentages of students who would likely disrupt the workplace, so be it.
Liberal ideals are not the only reason someone might be attracted to Oberlin. The school has a largely non-pretentious student body (that midwest thing leaking in), high academic standards and reputation, and an amazing conservatory. But that other thing is also there, it is true, and must be dealt with, or coexisted with, if one is to maximally enjoy attending.
@monydad The New Yorker article from last year that referenced some of the ongoings at Oberlin is enough to raise concern with me. Creating an environment where regressive tactics are used by people who feel they have been marginalized to now marginalize others is disturbing. The PCness run amok is a problem that needs addressing. I am fine with places like Oberlin dying a natural death: I don’t want to hire someone who may donate to the school as an alumni. Apparently Oberlin graduates do not command very high salaries (I suspect this is because many go into the non-profit sector, especially those with degrees in subjects like gender studies, etc.). If fewer employers are willing to hire from Oberlin, the college has a choice to reform or decline.
FWIW, the salary studies I’ve seen exclude anyone with an advanced degree.
Oberlin is known for having one of the higher proportions of grads who go on to a PhD. My guess is a relatively high proportion of its grads get a graduate degree of one sort or another. All of whom are then excluded from the salary studies. It has no engineering school, no business major, and a large conservatory. Music grads are not known for raking in the dough. It is located in the Midwest, where salaries tend to be lower than on the coasts. Also I agree it may well be true that some proportion of the student body gravitates, through choice, to some areas of endeavor that are not that highly remunerated, eg non-profit sector.
I’m not aware of any apples-to-apples study that shows that a psychology (or pick other liberal arts major) major out of Oberlin would have lifetime earnings any higher or lower than one out of, eg, Kenyon, Grinnell, etc. Given similar interests.
@OHMomof2 A recent grad (without much job history) often lists the extracurricular groups they belong to and what their “accomplishments” and responsibilities within that group were. And, yes, some list that they organized protests or things of that nature because they are proud of that work or because they believe it shows leadership. It is not too hard to glean the nature of group from the group’s name/description or from a quick google search. If you have children in college, what do their resumes look like? Don’t they include their college activities?
@Vango The New Yorker article was a sensationalizing piece quoting only a handful of disgruntled students. A vastly larger percentage are creative, intellectual, and accomplished, whether or not you like their politics. Here are a few: https://new.oberlin.edu/office/fellowships/
I’m thinking the famous and very accomplished Oberlin alumni would have a good laugh at the idea that their degree would hinder them professionally in some way.
