Large part of that is because most go into academia, K-12 education, creative/performing arts, or social helping professions which don’t tend to command high salaries.
There’s also the part that a substantial portion of Oberlin students/alums come from well-to-do families so the low salaries are really masking the fact they’re living off family wealth/trust funds.
Also, compared to when I attended Oberlin in the mid-late '90s(on a near-full ride FA/scholarship package), Oberlin has actually become more mainstream/conservative comparatively speaking.
When I attended, one could be considered “too right wing” for being a Green party supporter whereas since 2004 or so, being a mainstream Democrat seems to be well-accepted.
And @Vango, I’d be careful of using one’s institution as a blunt filter as you’ve described.
You could end up filtering plenty of good folks including centrists/apolitical folks who attended for academic or other reasons.
Also, on the flipside, you could end up hiring folks who attended conservative universities or in occupations popularly stereotyped as conservative* who are very inclined to be active in radical progressive lefty protests.
Several old neighborhood kids/colleagues who were initially very conservative in my old '80s era NYC neighborhood who enlisted in the infantry and other combat arms branches of the Army/Marines who have become flaming radicals in large part due to what they've seen/experienced in OIF, an older HS alum and Cornell engineering graduate who is the "resident hippie" among the Reserve Captains and Lieutenants in his Army Reserve unit who is now preparing to undergo Ranger training after getting selected, or a younger HS classmate who was a staunch young Republican with libertarian tendencies through college and Law school before radically changing his political views based on the corruption/abuses he saw perpetuated by his former employers at a large corporation.
Last guy ended up going from employer-side to employee-side labor law and his current politics is such he’d now fit in far better at the Oberlin of my undergrad years than I did.
Not necessarily. Most employers tend to regard political involvement as a positive thing…even if they happen to disagree with that organization(Actual radical extremist groups excepted).
Then again, this might have explained why one recent Econ graduate who had not been able to land a job 2 years after graduation despite graduating respectably from a top 20 university had an issue with employment. He was a bit too open/adamant about his Ayn-Randian brand libertarianism and would drop the fact he was the VP of his university’s Libertarian organization every chance he could get.
Thank you all for the helpful posts. I will take the most challenging courses next semester for intellectual stimulation and will decide if I should transfer.
@OHMomof2 our club has a great relationship with Michelle Malkin and hopefully she can come and give a speech about freedom of speech and being able to “chill out” of victim-mode. @shawnspencer our budget is “bigly”. Haha
@cobrat could you explain more about the econ grad who couldn’t find an employment because of his Ayn Rand ideas? I’m personally a huge fan of her, although I don’t religiously believe her ideas. I fear that something similar may happen to me, if I’m not careful presenting myself.
@vango I was also worried about Oberlin grad income. Even in New York times, the Oberlin grad in age 30s (probably done with grad school) have one of the lowest income out of 66. I think oberlin was ranked 65. This is behind liberal arts colleges like Grinnell, Vassar, Kenyon, etc. Personally, many students may believe they may be the next “Messiah” changing the world for the good. This may not be the best mindset for successful financial career.
Ayn Rand/Objectivism can be a signifier of those with rigid viewpoints who accept this philosophy uncritically. For this reason, discussion of any political philosopher should be undertaken with discretion.
While merc81’s points may have played a role, in the case of that particular top 20 uni econ grad, I think the far bigger problem was the MANNER in which he discussed his Ayn-Rand/Objectivism libertarianism along with his constantly dropping the fact he was the VP of his university’s libertarian organization.
It reminded me of a few scenes from a movie in which one official in charge of Trade and Industry came across as exceedingly obnoxious to fellow conference goers…especially those more senior to him when he kept mentioning how he was in charge of the Trade and Industry group.
Most of them tuned him out while pretending to listen if they were polite or abruptly walked away from him in mid-sentence when they found a more interesting and less obnoxious fellow conference attendee to hang with.
In that case I would recommend William & Mary. It is strong in the areas you mentioned, but has a strong history of promoting civic engagement and discourse. It still generally leans liberal, but has a wide variety of perspectives and is more middle of the road when compared to most colleges.
Several alums include Thomas Jefferson, John Marshall, Henry Clay, James Comey, and Robert Gates who is also the current chancellor of the college. It also has strong connections to the DC area, which might be useful if you are seeking an economics or finance related career. It’s international relations and research has an international development focus, of which I am currently participating in a school sponsored program abroad currently.
You may also want to check out things like this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQx9CmDWwaQ. It is a debate titled “The Great Debtbate” where there was a discussion by the Young Dems, College Republicans, College Socialists, and College Libertarians on how to solve issues of the National Debt, and you got to hear cool things like Libertarians talk about climate change or Democrats talk about ways to make Social Security more sustainable.
So yeah if you have any more questions about that, feel free to send them my way.
Yes, transfer. I’m not sure some on your list will be much different though. Specifically I’m wondering about Hamilton, Cornell, maybe even U of R. My ds is starting to look at schools and has this same concern. We have thought maybe sticking to larger schools because there would hopefully be a variety of people. Or perhaps staying away from the two coasts and northeast? Its really a shame what has happened. Honestly, if there are any colleges that are not liberal lefty right now, I think they could attract many, many students trying to flee this nonsense. Some students just want to get an education and not live in a charged environment.
No, I would give it more time for a number of reasons. First off, as a number of others have said lot’s of schools have liberal contingents that tend to be higher profiled and more obvious on campus. We are a long time Oberlin family and have a student there now. What I was concerned as a parent was frankly the opposite trend- many traditional looking
students and a new football stadium surprised me and I had heard from a friend in Berkeley that the same thing was happening there. But this is appearances. And the media still looking for a juicy story which seems out of character
with everyday circumstances on campus. Oberlin at its core is a creative place to study and one where graduates we
know have had passionate involvement in their fields bringing those deep rewards. Not always easy lives but those big
heartfelt rewards in the big picture of life.
Classical musicians which Oberlin has so many of are mostly conservative from my experience. Are you friends with any or have you gone to the 500+ concerts there each year? These may be your people or at least one set to become acquainted with. Same for the science dept which is very forward thinking. Alum Jad Abumrad from Radiolab says his show is about curiosity. Oberlin excels at this open type of thinking about science, music, writing, gender, etc and it may be that you are seeing it as liberalism. Its an adjustment to wide ranging thinking. Interestingly this happens is in high demand in alot of fields that need out of box problem solvers. I see lots of quieter more conservative and intelligent students students there albeit a bit hidden.
Am in academia myself and I see circles change alot in the first two years often settling into what look like life long potential connections (certainly has been the case with many Obies). It may be too earlier on and you haven’t found your group yet. Transferring can be risky and I have seen an almost either it does or/ it absolutely doesn’t work. Big
throw of the dice.
Good luck with your decision. Just want to say that I am thrilled - repeat thrilled- as my child’s progress at Oberlin. I see someone who is challenging themselves and is challenged institutionally to make intelligent, responsible choices and who has become beautifully independent in how they navigate through life thus far. Love the friends too and the
safe, cute village of Oberlin and our student has wavered in the past as many do with confidence and where do I belong questions but has come through at Oberlin to be what I see as a positive, well educated, caring thinker. If you
chose Oberlin as your school in the beginning, I would listen carefully to that voice.
@OHMomof2 I specifically noted I would avoid “recent grads” of Oberlin as it is the recent stuff going on there that I would not wish to bring into my workplace. Regarding not putting political things on resumes, I would venture that you do not come across many resumes of recent grads, as I routinely encounter resumes that list affiliation with groups that have a political bent, from the BDS movement to political party organizations. If as a student, one has devoted a lot of time to such an organization, there would be a “hole” in the resume without such information. When I interview recent grads, especially those with little or no real job history, I ask them what they did on campus besides go to class.
@Vango I don’t know how many Oberlin apps you’ve seen over the years but Oberlin has been progressive since its founding.
I would never advise my kids to put anything political on a resume (as neither are in or intend to be in political careers). I’ve also advised them to take on plenty of work and internships so potential employers don’t need to wonder what they did with their time, either.
Interesting to me that anyone would but as the kids admitted to Harvard who shared baby lynching memes shows, anything is possible.
@OHMomof2 As most colleges do tend to be progressive/liberal, there are many liberal students who assume that the issues with which they identify are almost universally seen in the same light that they see it. I come across that attitude all the time (I’m not talking about work/resumes here, just in general). Some of these students are so encased in their bubble of beliefs that they simply cannot comprehend nuance or dissent from the opinion they hold. Therefore, they are very open about their position on an issue and usually quite proud to discuss it. It makes sense from the perspective that if you haven’t been challenged on an issue or forced to see another side of it, you tend to think everyone agrees with you (except complete idiots who are not worth your time).
Regarding hiring, I am willing to hire people who don’t share my beliefs, as long as THEY are willing to work with people who don’t share theirs. In my opinion, some of what I am seeing at places like Oberlin, UCSC, and Evergreen just turns my stomach. When I see some of the videos from Evergreen all I can think is “who would ever hire those students?” They may be able to get away with that behavior on campus, but I don’t know what employer would want to deal with that kind of behavior.
Well that’s valid. But it seems unnecessary to say “I won’t hire any recent grads from Evergreen State because I saw 10 students acting badly on a video in 2017”.
@OHMomof2 Well I suppose if the job market continues to tighten, I won’t be able to be as selective in my hiring. But as long as I am getting a few dozen resumes for a job, I can use certain factors to trim down who I would interview. I’m pretty comfortable with eliminating recent grads from certain schools from the mix - perhaps when the behavior of the “few” starts to impact the school’s reputation, the leadership there will stop caving to such immature behavior. The fact that the administration gives in to some of the most ridiculous demands just further ruins these students for the real world. They’ll leave college thinking that the real world is going to tolerate such nonsense.
I suppose you can use whatever (legal) filters you choose. You have to cut somehow. I suspect you lose some good ones by doing that but I know nothing about your business.
I do not think those filters will have any effect on how colleges handle protests, however.
I’m about to transfer to Wesleyan and I am nervous about this happening. I would transfer if you are not happy, you only get 4 years of college and you want to make them enjoyable. That’s how I thought of it. Does anyone know if Wesleyan University is very much like that politically and will I run into the same issues? I heard that Oberlin is one of the most liberal schools out there, and I’m hoping it will not be so bad at Wesleyan. Keep us updated on what you decide to do!
Over the summer, I was able to get many tips and internships opportunities because of Oberlin connection! This has led me to rethink my decision of transferring. Moreover, I am deeply committed to a graduate school, preferably Ph.D. program after my undergraduate. If I transfer, would this hurt my chances, since the recommendations from the professors may be more “mediocre” since I’ve known them for probably 2 years?
@OHMomof2 After finishing my first year of college, the only significant position I had was with the Republican club. If I portrayed the club as a “free-speech” advocate club, would that be fine for my internship applications? I have not been involved in other activities besides that club. Plus, programs like Business Scholar program was offered only to non-freshman students.
@Vango As a pro-capitalist, I believe that the employer has the full right to hire whoever he/she desires. I wish the best for your business. I guess if I apply for internships and jobs, I would have to apply more vigorously than the college applications.
@Cazoon Congratz to your acceptance to Wesleyan! It is a great college with a great academics. I heard that Wesleyan is a tiny bit more conservative than Oberlin. However, Wesleyan is still very predominantly liberal. I’ve read some reports on how the college or the student group have tried to censor some criticisms of Black Lives Matter because… you know, feelings.
That’s good news. Your work experience will, IMO, trump your club activities. And if you go to grad school, guess which degree will matter more to future employers? Your terminal degree. Being at Oberlin will HELP you with grad schools.
To your question about how to portray the club - I’d ask your career office about that. As I said, I wouldn’t put an overtly political credential on my resume, but I also wouldn’t lie.
My D had mostly high school stuff on her resume the summer after her freshman year, when she was having her first internship. She had (very normal) work experience from high school though - have you?
Speaking of grad schools, depending on the field, some applicants/grad students may find more issues with some academic departments/Profs expecting students to conform to their interpretations/takes on the field.
And it’s not always the stereotypical liberal/progressive echo chamber, either.
For instance, I knew of a few college classmates who ran into issues as Econ or Poli-Sci grad students because the department/Prof(s) they happened to encounter were conservative/libertarian leaning or because their preferred theory/orientation in the field is more amenable to that line of interpretation within their field/subfield.
This was one key reason why an older college classmate who is oriented towards comparative politics was advised by a Prof outside our college* to avoid certain grad poli-sci departments at all costs.
Also, there’s the possibility some departments might be embroiled in factional disputes over which theory/interpretation is more valid which grad students end up being caught in the middle of. This was a key reason why an uncle left his elite PhD program decades ago.
re #55: " If I transfer, would this hurt my chances, since the recommendations from the professors may be more “mediocre” since I’ve known them for probably 2 years?"
Well that’s a risk. It depends on where you transfer to, what their policies are, and how you do there.
On the other hand , how you do the last two years at Oberlin would also impact things. And that’s also a risk. Particularly if you will be unhappy there, which could affect your performance.
D1 did have good recs out of Oberlin, but if I’m not mistaken those were from Profs she had in the later years.
If your GPA qualifies you for departmental honors (maybe 1/4 of the class IIRC) you can write an Honors thesis, and that’s probably what would help most for a PhD program…
D2 transferred from a different LAC to a university for Spring of sophomore year. The university had a similar practice as oberlin about Honors. They transferred her grades, which were such that she could have qualified for departmental Honors, and written a thesis there, if she wanted to. She did get to know some Profs there well enough to get good recommendations. But that was due largely to her own initiative and extracurricular work. Others could go there, conduct themselves differently, and not have close faculty relationships. Other schools might not consider grades earned elsewhere in deciding on Honors qualification, in which case she might not have qualified to do an Honors thesis at the university.
So these are the sorts of things you’d want to investigate.
Re: Wesleyan, I suspect the majority are the same. However it plays sports with the likes of Amherst & Williams, so there is a decent sized contingent of of athletes, who may not fully “drink the kool-aid”.
But these two schools have a lot of cross-applicants. Vassar too.