<p>From how the issue is described by many colleges, I wonder if federal FA regs require them to “enforce” an EFC (however loosely determined) in order for the student to remain eligible for fed gov’t aid elements (pell grants, etc.).</p>
<p>If that is true, the college would be facing a decision of substituting all in-house aid dollars to substitute for the lost federal subsidized amounts and would quickly exhaust its aid pool. Hence, colleges offer few, if any, full-ride merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Fallen, yes I am violating your don’t speak wihtout PROOF posting protocols, but trying to make sense of this strange animal.</p>
<p>I do think colleges try to do their best to make attendance affordable, but it still doesn’t change that applicants should be clearly informed upfront about the merit limitations.</p>
<p>For example, a student armed with the facts may target need-blind colleges instead of colleges that are need-aware + merit. Which may be why merit award colleges are not so eager to be clear on the point, since their goal is to boost applications …</p>
<p>So do you believe they wealthy should also be the ones paying all or the bulk of income taxes in the country?</p>
<p>And do you realize your policy, if enacted would severely limit the amount of need based aid available. Because it is the wealthy who provide the gifts to colleges to be able to fund need based aid. And it is those full pay families - who may go to a college because they were enticed by merit aid - that still pay a substantial amount in tuition to enable the college to help fund need based aid.</p>
<p>Well said. people like momma-three amaze me. Wanting all these handouts but not realizing where the money for the handouts really comes from.</p>
<p>Colleges that use merit aid to entice studnets who will pay a substantial amount of the going rate do so because it is a revenue winner for them. It helps provide them the funds to offer need based aid and other programs</p>
<p>S-1 had 2 outside scholarships to offer: Robert Byrd @ $2,500 x 4 years; and a modest one-time performing arts grant. </p>
<p>Brandeis would have taken it dollar-for-dollar off of his need-based aid. Brandeis had many academic and social attributes he appreciated deeply. He might have attended, but…</p>
<p>Amherst had the opposite answer: need-based aid unchanged. </p>
<p>S went to Amherst. They really “get” middle-class families there. Every dollar counts. If a college genuinely wants a student from a family with close budgeting, they won’t subtract such funds. He/we felt this: it’s a harbinger of things to come if they squeeze off those dollars. It was a deal-maker/deal-breaker for us.</p>
<p>ETA: Perhaps a meaningful difference is that Brandeis offers some merit-based aid, while Amherst offers only need-based. Also Amherst’s endowment is much larger. I admire both instiutions equally, academically and socially. I’m just trying to explain how the difference over the issue raised by this thread can result in an enrolment or a declined offer from the accepted student, especially one from a middle class family. WIth two more students coming up (this was our eldest), $l0,500 was not chump change. We also needed to hope for consideration once Kid #2 began and we would be “paying2tuitions.”
Since you can’t know an answer two years in advance, all you can do is gauge the first institution’s approach and hope for the best when other kids begin elsewhere a few years later.</p>
<p>skier, thanks for your answer. However, a CFP is not what I’m looking for. We’ve had a CFP for years, and recently acquired an in-house FP as well and received great advice over the years. Though there are families that can take advantage of the strategies you mention to tip their EFC downwards, they wouldn’t make a real difference for us–our EFC would still be above COA. A CFP might work well for other families, especially as an alternative to those shady-looking FA seminars that advertise like get-rich-quick schemes. I’m not sure that a CFP would be workable for someone like rocket, or even affordable. </p>
<p>I agree about how it’s often too late to do anything by junior year. It frustrates me that my children’s schools have an FA night during the junior year for one, and the senior year (!) for the other. I’d love to see middle schools and elementary schools giving quick presentations at PTSA meetings as an early heads-up.</p>
<p>cluelessdad - Did those colleges have a track record of giving the highest merit awards to EDs? It is contrary to basic enrollment management strategies but certainly the fairest policy.</p>
<p>fallen, Smith grants will make up the great majority of a need-based aid package for high-need students at a 50k+/yr school. Of course federal money is always available, but as has been lamented repeatedly, federal money is not enough to cover even many in-state public tuitions.</p>
<p>keil - it isn’t just federal grants like Pell’s, it is loans too, right? Are you sure Smith grants will really make up the majority of need based aid?</p>
<p>Federal loans, yes–I believe the maximum for freshmen is $3500 a year? May have gone up recently, but not by much. Pell and other federal grants are only for low-income students; a kid who qualifies for full Pell would absolutely have the majority of the package be Smith grant aid. I suppose you could package in Perkins for said low-income kid, but assuming a liberal $10k a year in federal loans, that doesn’t come close to $50k+.</p>
<p>I can’t tell you anything about highest awards, did not specifically come up.</p>
<p>In a nutshell, 2 ED contenders, each with 1/2 ride merits targeted ballpark top 10% (my rough sense), which were my focus. I do believe each has 1 or 2 merit full-rides, which were not a focus for us :)</p>
<p>I was told by Admissions that applying ED would not prejudice us in any way in merit consideration and took them at their word; our discussions were not limited to the 1/2 ride awards, it was a general statement as to consideration for all merit awards.</p>
<p>Can we also consider another question? What about local scholarships. Let’s say a kid gets $500 from their local rotary(or something in that nature)…isn’t it a bit ridic for them to have their need based aid affected(as is the case at many colleges).That 500 is nothing for the college, but alot for the student. Why not let them use that towards books? Furthermore, are such things normally addressed in financial aid web pages and such?</p>
<p>thanks CrewDad…I still think it’s silly to not let kids use at least small outside scholarships to help pay for books and such…maybe they could cap it at like 2k? that way it’s only for incidental costs</p>
<p>In a sense they do. In most instances, the outside aid first reduces EFC resulting in a less out-of-pocket expense. You can do what you wish with the saving.</p>
<p>r6l, your FA package has budgeted for books. This is why most schools require a student contribution from summer earning because this is your “start up money” when you get to campus. It is like crewdad stated, your outside scholarship would reduce your self help aid (work study, loans). You could ask if monies can be used for the one time purchase of a new computer</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>A student with a “0” parent EFC (school will probably give student an EFC with the expecation that they work over the summer to get this money) will probably receive a package from smith that looks like this:</p>
<p>Ma. Resident :</p>
<p>5,350 Pell (max pell grant)<br>
750 Academic cometitiveness grant
1,900 If student is a Ma. resident, they would also receive a Massgrant and other state aid that they are eligible for
3,500 (stafford Loan)
1,900 (work study)
Smith grant ~40,000 (minus the student contribution)</p>
<p>Probable Non Mass resident package for “0” EFC</p>
<p>5,350 Pell (max pell grant)<br>
750 Academic cometitiveness grant
3,500 (stafford Loan)
1,900 (work study)
Smith grant ~41,900 (minus the student contribution)</p>
<p>Other federal aid student would possibly receive:</p>
<p>If school has SEOG funds available student would also get SEOG
SMART Grants
TEACH grant</p>
<p>I’m confused about how families can cover EFC from broader sources: what if a grandparent kicks in? A rich uncle? A family friend? Someone in the community who is made aware of a worthy kid, yet it is a one-off and not part of a “scholarship” program?</p>
<p>(cross-posted in schools w/ good merit aid thread)</p>
<p>My take-away from this long and winding road is that for FA families, merit awards NEVER reduce EFC (with the possible exception of outside merit scholarships). Have I oversimplified the net EFC effect?</p>
and received great advice over the years. Though there are families that can take advantage of the strategies you mention to tip their EFC downwards, they wouldn’t make a real difference for us–our EFC would still be above COA. A CFP might work well for other families, especially as an alternative to those shady-looking FA seminars that advertise like get-rich-quick schemes. I’m not sure that a CFP would be workable for someone like rocket, or even affordable. </p>