<p>Thanks, all! My d loves math and is doing well in precalc as a soph, so maybe BC will work for her. It kind of depends on the teacher (but I know I can’t control that) – she’s always had an A+ average but had one teacher in Alg 2/beginning of precalc who brought her way down. Switched to a different section and popped up to a 99 average in three weeks. She’s gun shy from that bad experience but wants to take the challenge. She also wants to take AP stats and then do calc 3 (not AP but they offer it) as a senior.</p>
<p>BCEagle91 - Actually I don’t want to introduce the other variables. The most common questions on the MIT forum are these: I have a B on my Calculus class, is it OK for MIT?
I have 710 on SAT Math, should I retake? The MIT rep said B is OK, 710 is OK.</p>
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<p>Do these folks get in?</p>
<p>I should ask a few of our MIT grads.</p>
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<p>If she takes multivariable calculus, she may want to check whether the universities she may go to will accept it for credit and placement differently depending on whether she takes it in high school versus a community college.</p>
<p>Of course if a high school requires AB before BC, a college will know this from the profile, and all the students will have the same sequence on their transcript. Students would not be penalized for taking a less rigorous math sequence.</p>
<p>The issue is that at many schools, students can choose either AB, which is Calculus 1 taught over 2 semesters, or BC which is Calculus 1 and Calculus 2 taught in two semesters as it is done in college. </p>
<p>The CollegeBoard website description of Calculus AB says that elementary functions can be taught during the AB year to prepare students for Calculus. If a school has a good PreCalculus class in which students have learned functions and all the prerequisite skills for Calculus, students should be prepared to do Calculus BC.</p>
<p>akapiratequeen-my daughter also excels in Math with a certain type of teacher, and flounders with a teacher she doesn’t respect, or feel comfortable asking questions. Fortunately she had an excellent teacher for Calculus 1 and 2 as a junior, who is now teaching Linear Algebra and Discrete Math this year for the seniors who completed Calculus last year.</p>
<p>At dd’s high school AP Stats is considered a joke-weak teacher, little homework, easy tests. It’s a good way to get an A in a weighted class, especially for students who want a break from “real math.” This could be an excellent class at other schools. I think a well-taught Stats class in high school could be excellent preparation for college, but dd’s school kind of wastes that opportunity, unfortunately.</p>
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<p>Here are some answers I found on the MIT forum:</p>
<ol>
<li><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/1090325-could-someone-give-me-general-idea-my-chances.html?highlight=calculus+b#post12026706[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/1090325-could-someone-give-me-general-idea-my-chances.html?highlight=calculus+b#post12026706</a></li>
</ol>
<p>Answer by HPuck35 (MIT grad):</p>
<p>“However, you say you are currently in pre-calc and will take AP calc BC next year. What happened to calc AB? Same kind of jump to Physics C? These are areas that one should not short one’s understanding of the subjects. Very important to get a good solid base in the fundamentals IMHO. I’m not the one to decide, but I’d rather see one get a good base in the fundamentals than take short cuts just to think one looks better on paper. (and by short cuts, I mean a summer course that is somewhat condensed and doesn’t really go into the proper depth for those topics as some summer course don’t)”</p>
<p>2.<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/949173-average-what-highest-level-math-course-mit-students-took-hs.html?highlight=calculus+b#post10704195[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/949173-average-what-highest-level-math-course-mit-students-took-hs.html?highlight=calculus+b#post10704195</a></p>
<p>Answer by MITChris (MIT adcom):
"Except in very special circumstances we require calculus of all of our applicants. </p>
<p>Beyond that, I don’t think there is a meaningful “average.” I’ve seen everything from basic calculus to “i’ve already taken every single undergraduate math course offered at my state university.” </p>
<p>I think the mean would probably be AP Calc AB / BC, to be completely honest. If you’re taking AP Calc AB, you’re fine - we won’t look down on you for not being good enough at math, but it also won’t make me go “woah, look at their curriculum”, eh? "</p>
<p>“Except in very special circumstances we require calculus of all of our applicants.”
This is not an indication of the mathematical abilities of those students that WERE accepted- only the dividing line between applications that don’t even get a second look and those that move on for further consideration. He did not give an indication of the level of mathematical skills of who DOES gets in.</p>
<p>The original question was “On average, what is the highest-level math course that MIT students took in HS?”</p>
<p>MIT students means HS students that have been admitted to MIT. I think.</p>
<p>Still, a student who is two grades ahead in math and getting A grades should be able to handle Calculus BC without much trouble, unless the preceding courses at the high school were really weak. There does not seem to be much point for such a student to take a slower paced Calculus AB course if a Calculus BC course is available (whether or not it matters for admission to MIT or other colleges or universities).</p>
<p>It may be different for a student who is only one grade ahead in math and is struggling to get a B or even a C in precalculus; such a student may find Calculus AB to be a better fit. But this does not appear to describe the OP’s daughter.</p>
<p>Certainly if the student desires to take the challenge. And I don’t really object to this. My whole point is: colleges don’t look down on students who take AB first. Overyone learns at his/her own pace. The difference in 1 or 2 classes in a math sequence does not determine who is better.</p>
<p>I would assume that MIT gets lots of students with Calc I-II-III, Differential Equations, Probability and Linear Algebra and that these students would have an advantage over those with Calc AB or BC. I seem to run across students like this at CC from time to time.</p>
<p>That’s what I meant by separately. Some schools (wringheadedly, imo) require AB as a prereq. OP’s D’s school does not. That means that in the school context AB is for weaker students, and everyone looking at the school profile will know it.</p>
<p>In terms of selective college admissions, her goal here is to take a schedule that allows the guidance counselor to check off the “most rigorous curriculum taken” box on the applications.</p>
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<p>I agree with you that those courses taken together can be really tough. Is there a language and English in there also? </p>
<p>AP US is a lot of memorization. If your kid has a natural aptitude for math then BC calculus is doable – but for many kids, calculus is a real killer. You’re a new member, so I can tell you that every year in the fall there is a flurry of students who post frantically on here, terrified because their straight-A average has been ruined by calculus. Calculus seems to be one of those classes that either you get and do well, or you don’t and you struggle. Many kids who have sailed through school and all prior math classes are defeated by calculus – and not defeated with a B, but with Cs.</p>
<p>To answer another question – the vast majority of very selective schools say that the very first things they look at, the most important things, are the transcript and GPA. I think when you get into the next tier, test scores can be more important (depending on the school). Did she take the PSAT in the fall, and how did she do?</p>
<p>Can she sign up for BC and easily change to AB when she gets a sense of how she is doing and what the teacher is like?</p>
<p>Four APs are not really too much in one year - if you read through other CC threads, you will see lists of many kids who’ve taken that much or more!</p>
<p>But. it really comes down to your D. Is she comfortable with taking these AP classes? My D is currently taking 4 APs (including AP Stat and AP Calc BC) and is doing fine with these. But she wouldn’t have touched AP Chem. Didn’t want to go there! APUSH is a lot of rote work, memorization - if this comes easy to your D, she might be fine with it.</p>
<p>As far as AB/BC goes, in our school, they offer both - but the track is laid out such that you are typically taking one of these in senior year. A lot of the “top” math kids in school are in the BC class while lots of the other smart non-mathy kids are in the AB class. D was told by her pre-calc teacher that she specifically shouldn’t bother with AB, just take the BC. You could ask your D to get her teacher’s opinion if she knows her well - D’s teacher had a good handle on who could handle the work in the AB/BC classes.</p>
<p>It sounded to me like the school/relevant teacher recommended Calc BC, and it was a parent who was suggesting AB. Just my take on it. I’ve been wrong before.</p>
<p>One of my kids went directly to BC Calc soph year (math major) and his AP Stat class was calc-based (pre-req BC Calc). He’s a math major. He had no problems about whether his MV/Diff Eq (or the other post-AP math classes) were taken at the HS or a community college – the schools (MIT included) give placement exams anyway.</p>
<p>The other one, a social sciences guy, did Calc AB junior year and AP Stat senior year in conjunction with a full IB diploma program. Chose not to do BC Calc senior year, though was tempted because they’d already covered a lot of the material. Decided Stat would be more useful to him in the long run. He knows he has to take at least one more math course in college, but is using his APs as background knowledge vs. placement.</p>
<p>OP, has your D already taken any APs?</p>
<p>Great responses, thanks!</p>
<p>My daughter is currently a soph. She is taking AP US this year (it’s a 2-year course at our school) and finding it rigorous–she is getting Bs. But she loves it and doesn’t regret the lower grade. (It helps that she is clearly a math person and won’t be majoring in history!)</p>
<p>She has had mixed experience in math. She was identified as gifted early on (through testing) and put in an accelerated class that was two years ahead of sequence. This started in 6th grade. In eighth grade they were bused from the middle school to the high school for geometry. As all the way.</p>
<p>In 9th grade (Alg 2), she had a teacher who is considered to be very good by many. They were oil and water. He didn’t go through proofs systematically, but wanted the kids to “extrapolate.” When her proofs were too “creative,” he had her make them into posters and he displayed her errors on the class wall. In spite of outside tutors (who kept telling me “she knows it, I don’t understand the problem”) she quickly went to a B- average in math. Worse, she lost all confidence in her abilities.</p>
<p>This year she was assigned the same teacher for precalc. She lasted about ten weeks–again with a B- to C+ average-- and then I finally went to the department head and threw a fit. They switched her to another “high” precalc section–mostly juniors this time–she had a test a week later and got 100. She has run a high A average ever since, with no tutors or outside support.</p>
<p>So–the current teacher recommended her unequivocally for BC. She felt great about it. Then the teacher took her aside and told her that, while she still would put her in BC, her former teacher had told her that he didn’t think my d could handle it. Poor d came home in tears. We talked about it for a few days, and then she asked me to check if (evil) teacher was teaching BC (AP). He’s not, and she decided she wanted to take the challenge. She feels like she really wants to prove this guy wrong. I am proud of her “go to” attitude, but don’t want to see her slapped down again, either. She really turned from a strong student who loved math into an insecure mess after one year with this teacher.</p>
<p>As a result of all this, her math cumulative is lower than it should be (although she will pull out an A or A- this year even with the lousy first quarter grade). I’ve gone back and forth about which course she should take. I think she would ace AB (the teacher is not considered rigorous), which would help her morale, but it might bore her. I also agree with the poster who said that at some schools (def. ours), AB is considered the less rigorous track.</p>
<p>AP calculus taught in HS is basically speed math. This means the quicker you apply the plug and chug formulas that you memorize the higher scores you have. This may works against students who have high math reasoning ability but are not keen on memorization. Cal BC has more stuff to memorize than AB. If your D is fast in applying formulas then she will be fine.</p>
<p>The following post in this topic probably will give you some more insight:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/mathematics-computer-science/1083071-ap-calc-bc-harder-just-more-stuff-than-ap-calculus-ab.html?highlight=calculus[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/mathematics-computer-science/1083071-ap-calc-bc-harder-just-more-stuff-than-ap-calculus-ab.html?highlight=calculus</a></p>
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<p>Oh my God. I don’t know what to say expect what an awful thing to do. Some teachers seem to feel public humiliation is a defensible motivational tool. </p>
<p>As far as your daughter’s decision - a lot of students who are good in math do fine taking Calc BC. If my son felt strongly about taking Calc BC, I wouldn’t stand in his way.</p>
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<p>This hasn’t been my son’s experience in his school’s AP Calc BC class at all. It probably varies enough from school to school that it’s hard to make a blanket statement.</p>
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This totally depends on the particular student and also depends on the courses. Some people have all classes as AP classes in the junior year and can do fine but it depends on the individual. </p>
<p>I think you need to take the lead from your D on this one. It sounds as if she’s already quite accomplished so since the teachers recommended these courses for her, and if she thinks she’s ready for the challenge, then she should go with it. However, I wouldn’t try to push her into it (but it doesn’t sound like you’re doing that). If she finds it too difficult she may be able to drop back into a less difficult course. </p>
<p>At this point I think she’d be better off not pursuing a course simply because she’d have a better chance of ‘acing it’ but rather, it’s the appropriate level of challenge and learning experience for her.</p>