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If their parents decide to give it to them, I think they are entitled to it. I know, of course, that this is really about an attitude–but I sometimes note a tone of annoyance that rich people have the temerity to spend their money as they please.</p>
<p>“I just have to note that rich people are legally entitled to spend their money on this if they want to. I’m never sure what people mean when they use “entitled” in this way–perhaps they mean cosmically entitled.”</p>
<p>Cosmically entitled? Hunt, you’ve outdone yourself! </p>
<p>DW teaches STEM in a very complex discipline (yes, it’s rocket science). All of her students are smart. The ones who study and learn the material do well. The ones who don’t study and don’t learn the material do … um, less well. Some of those who do “less well” have daddy call the University President to complain. Perhaps “immaturity” is a more appropriate description of this lamentable behavior than “entitlement.” </p>
<p>Fortunately, this level of immaturity is restricted to a relatively small number of students. And it’s important to remember that college students are still kids mostly. A certain amount of immaturity is to be expected.</p>
<p>The first post began with a report of the Board of Regents of the Iowa state university system ending the practice of funding FA from tuition revenue.</p>
<p>I think the furore about the issue is overdone on this thread. No one is forced to send their children to college. No one is forced to send their children to a public, in-state college. For many families with academically capable kids, merit scholarships may make private and out-of-state public colleges more affordable than in-state colleges. The out-of-state colleges may offer a better value in exchange for tuition.</p>
<p>Every family, whatever their means, must make a rational decision about the value received compared to the price paid for a college degree. SAT scores are a factor any would-be selective college must consider. As SAT scores correlate very well with SES, if the middle class thinks the tuition’s too high, they’ll send their children elsewhere. Colleges are already offering merit scholarships. That will continue.</p>
<p>Given the economic crisis, I predict many colleges will end programs which increase tuition. It will become more and more of a buyer’s market. Families which do not need FA for a college degree, and whose children are prepared for college (i.e., do not need remediation) will have the luxury of choice. They might have to send their children to an out-of-state college, or even out of the country, but they will be in good shape as long as they’re not determined to chase prestige.</p>
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Despicable. Maybe they need an IRS audit? Finaid audit?</p>
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<p>What do they say? </p>
<p>I’ll admit I’ve considered complaining to admin about certain situations with my Ds’ colleges (not at their request, but prompted by the experiences they shared with me), but haven’t done it. At a cost of around $60K for a 9-month experience, my expectations for a quality product are pretty high.</p>
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<p>Hmmm . . . my DH was a tenured professor at a state flagship for a number of years and still has an adjunct and occasionally teaches. Certainly never experienced what you’re describing.</p>
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<p>Nope…completely legal and I’d bet they’d pass an audit with flying colors. I’m sure the kids are at a FAFSA only school…good for them!</p>
<p>Perhaps “immaturity” is a more appropriate description</p>
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<p>Yes, immaturity of the idiot parents who actually call the president of the college to get Muffy or Biff the grade he/she did not earn (but apparently deserves).</p>
<p>As I stated before, giving full rides to students from low income families is simply another entitlement on top of those they already receive; guessing it’s going to get a lot worse over the next four years too… For goodness sake, at least get some skin in the game; maybe $500 or $1000 a year…nah, the entitlement mentality they’ve all grown up with just carries over to not having to pay anything for higher education.</p>
<p>What public school gives full need-based rides?</p>
<p>I put zero income and assets into <a href=“http://financialaid.ucdavis.edu/aidEstimator/Dependent.aspx[/url]”>http://financialaid.ucdavis.edu/aidEstimator/Dependent.aspx</a> and got net price of $10,000.</p>
<p>There are very few places that give ‘full rides’, even to families of low SES.</p>
<p>If you check IPEDs (Integrated Post-Secondary Education Data System), you can check the ‘net price’** of an institution based on family income.</p>
<p>At almost all the state schools that I’ve looked at, families making below 30K still have a ‘net price’ of around 8K. </p>
<p>For example, for U of AZ, the average net price for families with 0-30K income is 8,297.
U AL: 13, 815 (and the net price for families making over 110K, it’s 20, 429)
U Wash: 6, 128
U Mass: 8, 863
U Iowa: 9, 323
U Colorado: 12, 181</p>
<p>I don’t understand how families at this income level can actually even afford the ‘net price’.</p>
<p>What’s very sad is the complete misunderstanding of financial aid and how it is awarded at most institutions. The average income for Pell Grant recipients is around 15K. I doubt many of these recipients are well-off tax cheats.</p>
<p>If these numbers are to be believed, there must be very, very few who are getting a ‘free ride’ based on being of low SES.</p>
<p>***Average net price is generated by subtracting the average amount of federal, state/local government, or institutional grant or scholarship aid from the total cost of attendance. Total cost of attendance is the sum of published tuition and required fees (lower of in-district or in-state), books and supplies, and the weighted average for room and board and other expenses.</p>
<h1>104–“Given the economic crisis, I predict many colleges will end programs which increase tuition.”</h1>
<p>So who’s paying as we inch backwards in our wagons (#94)?<br>
I’m just happy to get my kids out of the system as fast as possible and hoping for some type of employment on the other side.</p>
<p>What really is sad is that our educational system for so many worthy students needs major revising. No matter the economic level, a good public education should be available. It’s obviously not since so many turn to private options.
There should not need to be remedial math and English for incoming college freshmen. Why would that even exist? How did we get to the point that college is available to those without the credentials to attend ? And now they need to “catch up” just to be able to compete at all? The common answer is lack of a good HS education–so what happened there?
Not sure how we started with such a simple priority list of good schools, good teachers and education for all got so messed up over the past 30 years.</p>
<p>The reason why there’s all this cost shifting and subsidization is because college is just too darned expensive. Caused, I think, because of all the aid and govt loans that has been thrown at it. As is the case with health care, the US spends the most on education but gets worse results.</p>
<p>Here’s an interesting start-up idea that seems like a much more promising way to go – drop the cost of a year of college down to $5k. If something like this would work, it would do way more for students (especially poor ones) than trying to get someone to throw even more dough at the current college model in the form of aid or loans or donations or govt support. </p>
<p>[Web-based</a> college aims to break down barriers - Denver Business Journal](<a href=“http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/street_backtalk/2012/10/web-based-college-aims-to-break-down.html?page=all]Web-based”>http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/street_backtalk/2012/10/web-based-college-aims-to-break-down.html?page=all)</p>
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<p>At the lower end of this range, probably through Stafford loans and the student’s summer job/internship earnings, or part time job during school. (Of course, this depends on the student actually getting a job, not necessarily a trivial thing during an economic downturn.)</p>
<p>Still wondering what are the public universities that have full need-based rides. (Not merit scholarships, and not the military service academies that are full ride for all.)</p>
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<p>The number of students who capable of eventually completing a bachelor’s degree (probably about a third of high school graduates) is far greater than the number who are ready to start college without needing remedial courses (probably fewer than a tenth). Both are related to poor K-12 schools, though the latter appears to be more affected than the former. Agree that this is a travesty that the state is paying to educate the students in English and math in high school, but then paying again to teach them the same material in college because it was taught poorly in high school.</p>
<p>Re: <a href=“http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/street_backtalk/2012/10/web-based-college-aims-to-break-down.html?page=all[/url]”>http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/street_backtalk/2012/10/web-based-college-aims-to-break-down.html?page=all</a></p>
<p>That is a two year college offering associates degrees.</p>
<p>“What do they say?”</p>
<p>“DH was a tenured professor at a state flagship for a number of years and still has an adjunct and occasionally teaches. Certainly never experienced what you’re describing.”</p>
<p>Private University … obviously. Complaints run the gambit … everything from “she wants to flunk out half the class” to “biased against students like me.” Perhaps an example? Kid misses a test prior to mid-term grades. Comes to the office “Yeah I missed the test. I just wasn’t into it.” DW reschedules, and makes up a test with different questions. Kid bombs the test. Complaint comes down: “Student says the make up test was unfair because the questions were too hard.”</p>
<p>I’m reluctant to apply the term “entitled.” But private universities do have a problem with the spectre that private education has become “transactional” … namely that students make large tuition payments and receive their educational credential in exchange.</p>
<p>NewHope, I’m friendly with a local LAC’s (D3) b-ball coach.</p>
<p>Parents contact her to complain about their daughters’ playing time. In college. Your scenario is entirely plausible to me.</p>
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<p>In practice, this leads to rationing with advantage to the politically connected.</p>
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<p>No, Michigan State doesn’t. They have an employee benefit called “Course Fee Courtesy” that “provides financial assistance to enhance the educational development of an employee’s spouse and dependent child(ren). Course Fee Courtesy consists of credit of an amount equal to one-half of the applicable Michigan resident on-campus undergraduate course fees at Michigan State University.” It does not waive or reduce any other student fees. So essentially, it’s just a 50% tuition discount.</p>
<p>Ohio State’s is also a tuition discount program, providing a discount of 50% up to a maximum of $4,820 per semester for spouses and children of eligible faculty and staff.</p>
<p>The University of Florida doesn’t have an automatic tuition benefit; children of eligible employees may apply for a special scholarship available only to children of UF or other participating college/university employees, good for tuition less $5,000 per year. However, only 1 child per employee is eligible at any given time, with a 2-year waiting period before a second child may apply.</p>
<p>U Maryland and UConn do appear to offer full tuition remission for children of faculty and certain other employees.</p>
<p>Some of these benefits are taxable income to the employee. UF’s “scholarship” isn’t taxable because it’s billed as a scholarship. The others would all appear to be taxable income, but I’m not a tax expert so don’t take my word for it.</p>