Should Suicidal Students Be Forced to Leave Campus?

Parent Cafe
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<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/suicidal-students-allowed-campus"&gt;http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/suicidal-students-allowed-campus&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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In balancing the rights of students against the need for safety and order, many universities require suicidal students to leave campus. At Yale, Brown, George Washington University, Hunter College, Northwestern, and several other schools, students have protested these policies, by initiating litigation, submitting complaints to the Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights, or writing columns in campus newspapers.

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There have been several threads lately ranging from schools that seem to minimize a student's medical and MH issues (see the thread "am I responsible for my roommate") and schools that keep students unnecessarily over the weekend until they are "cleared" by the health center and permitted to return to campus. This particular article, about a Princeton student, shows how students with mood issues or possible MH issues are further stigmatized by their school. rther than normalizing and treating the mood/stress/separation struggles common to many students, they stigmatize it and boot them off campus. Really sad that a student would potentially fear asking for help for fear of potentially being discharged from school. Suicide attempts are very serious and should be treated as such,but not every student needs long term hospitalization or care at home before being cleared to return to school. </p>

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<p>I believe if they are cleared by a psychiatrist to be on campus then they should be allowed on campus. I think have a mental health clinic on campus tracking these students would be beneficial as well. While I can see where the colleges are coming from because no one wants a death on campus, obviously; it is important to remember that these students are dealing with lifelong issues that need to be managed. </p>

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<p>No school wants a suicide on campus, and even worse, they don’t want one where the student kills others first.</p>

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I see big liabilty exposure for the university if the tracked student commits suicide.</p>

5

<p>There are, unfortunately all too many suicides on campus, often by students who don’t seek out help, are afraid to seek out help, or are not able to get an appointment soon enough.</p>

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<p>I guess it’s tough. In the UVA thread, I and some other posters have argued that colleges sometimes overstep their boundaries by setting themselves up as law enforcement personnel even though they often lack the expertise and the resources to effectively do so. To a certain extent, a university is not an asylum and they may not have the resources to provide long-term care to someone who really needs it. </p>

<p>On the other hand, though, I believe that this is an area where colleges really can step up and provide such resources and services to people who can use them for mental health difficulties that are treatable. Booting people with mental illnesses off campus is bad policy, not just because it encourages people to avoid seeking help because they are afraid but also because it stigmatizes someone just for being sick which is hardly fair.</p>

<p>The view that mental illnesses are chronic conditions that could lead to hospitalization periodically is a strong one though – would they expel a student who had lymphoma just because there is a chance that they might succumb while at school, assuming the condition was manageable enough to attend classes? We sometimes have this attitude that mental illnesses should just go away after taking a pill or something but sometimes they don’t, any more than being a paraplegic will just go away if you take a pill. If it’s something that’s being managed, then that has to be part of the decision.</p>

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<p>I don’t know. I had a close friend and sometimes roommate who became schizophrenic while in college. His parents were in utter denial about how serious his mental health problems were, and he never missed more than a few weeks of school, despite repeated hospitalizations. He could be a very scary person at times. His friends (I included) bore incredible stress, and received absolutely no support from the college (or anyone else). Some (I included) were pretty much unscathed, but others were darn well scathed. His closest friend had to take a year off from college himself. There were many, many times that I wished the college had made him get better, or at least a lot more functional, before letting him live in the dorms with others and take classes.</p>

<p>One example: He had a crush on a particular girl, going back before he became symptomatic, and as his delusions and hallucinations took over she became the center of his delusional system. Everyone who knew him knew that – he literally worshiped her. But she – also literally – didn’t know he existed. He was too intimidated ever to have spoken to her. As his therapy and medications took hold, however, he stopped believing in his own utter worthlessness, or that he would instantly combust if he got too close to her. So, effectively, he graduated from silently crazy obsessed person to sneaky, creepy stalker . . . and you can bet she knew he existed then. She was petrified. I was petrified, too – he was already touching her surreptitiously, and I was afraid his next therapeutic breakthrough was going to enable a full-scale attack. We were sharing a suite, and he talked to me all the time about his plans for making her fall in love with him.</p>

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<p>Umm… I think you mean a psychotic break could have led to an attack. A therapeutic breakthrough is a good thing-- one of those "aha"moments in therapy when things start to fall into place. But your intent was clear. A person with a fulminant psychosis with delusions is going to need close management. Schizophrenia commonly manifests in the early 20’s, and is terribly devastating.</p>

<p>A depressed student with adjustment problems and no past history of self harm, who is in therapy, compliant with appointments and meds may be well able to handle the academic and social demands of school.</p>

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<p>I have a daughter who has been battling depression for four years. She is doing very well on medication and with weekly therapy and is thriving in college. If she ever became suicidal for whatever reason, I certainly hope the school would send her home where we could get her the care she needed. A person’s life is worth far more than their right to an education. </p>

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<p>I get that some colleges don’t have the resources to help a student who is suicidal, but at the same time, the college can’t know the student’s home life–it’s very possible that the kid’s home life is a factor in the reasons the student is suicidal (that can still affect you even if you’re living away from home, after all). Even if the home life is not contributing to the suicidal thoughts, going back home might upset the parents, which puts more pressure and stress on a student that is already not equipped to handle it.</p>

<p>It’s a bad move for so many reasons, but that’s just one of them.</p>

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<p>Hmm, that’s true, but how does the college know that the college environment would be any better? It’s a tough decision to make on anything other than a case by case basis. The example from the article was a student who had three suicide attempts (once at school and twice before college). The student claims that they were ‘cries for attention’ but can a college just believe that with no evidence? </p>

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<p>At some point the alarms just have to go off and we need to hear them They noted that this was his third suicide attempt in three years…The administrators urged him to voluntarily withdraw from the university for a year, so that he could get intensive psychiatric treatment.</p>

<p>If my child were in danger of life-threatening self-harm, I couldn’t be satisfied with young inexperienced roommates providing supposed oversight, nor some 9-5 staffers. Nor could I, in good conscience, accept the risk of emotional damage to those other kids. </p>

<p>Normalize? I dunno. If he were that close to “okay,” would he have tried that third time? Isn’t the right help from the right professionals in the right context, the more concerned attitude?</p>

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That would be my biggest fear. Yes, no college wants suicides on campus. The persistent (but false) rumors of prevalent suicides at Cornell, for example, show the stigmatism attached to high suicide rates. Nobody wants another Virginia Tech either. That said, I think the risk of driving such students underground is a real one. Most schools have medical amnesty to prevent taking harsh action against a student who drank too much while underage, but a mentally ill student may not feel like (s)he has any such protection. </p>

<p>I’ve had a lot of friends who’ve struggled with depression or suicidal tendencies, many of them LGB with unaccepting families. It can be extremely difficult to convince someone to seek out professional help, even if they know they should. Fear of being kicked out of school would only make them dig in their heels more.</p>

<p>Take, for example, the following case at GWU. A student was rather understandably shaken by the suicide of a close friend and had suicidal thoughts himself. Taking the appropriate step, he checked himself into the GWU hospital for a weekend when his roommate would be out of town. He was kicked out of his dorm and forced to withdraw from the university before he had even been fully evaluated.</p>

<p><a href=“Student suspended following depression treatment sues University; case provides look into endangering behavior policy – The GW Hatchet”>http://www.gwhatchet.com/2006/01/17/student-suspended-following-depression-treatment-sues-university-case-provides-look-into-endangering-behavior-policy/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>How likely is a student to simply lie low next time rather than seek out help? That doesn’t do anyone much good.</p>

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Yale is currently ranked #2 for clinical psychology per US News. Is it unable or unwilling to cope with depressed students? If the former, why? That seems very odd to me.</p>

<p>EDIT: Post #15 has clarified this for me.</p>

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<p>It is a complicated issue. In this country when someone is 18 we think he/she is an adult, so school can’t make parents be responsible for the student or make the student get any help if he/she doesn’t want it. On the other hand, if a college student should commit suicide then the parents often sue the school for negligence. The school is in a no win situation - they can’t be responsible for the well being of a student, but can be sued if something should happen to the student, the only they can do is to force any student who may create liability to the school to leave.</p>

<p>My coop is forcing a coop owner to leave because she is mentally ill. She is a danger to herself and to other owners. We can’t force her to seek treatment. The only thing we can do is to force her to leave. If the coop board doesn’t terminate her lease and she should hurt someone then the board could be sued. If that should happen then no one would be able to sell their apartment. </p>

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<p>But the article is about a third suicide attempt, not that depression risks judgment, stigmatization or a boot. Indeed, let the right professional(s) help the kid. Yale is not necessarily the right source of help, no matter how strong it’s academics (or even student practicums) are in psychology. This isn’t about passing a kid off to just any “someone else.” (Nor is it about just telling him to transfer, let another college deal with it.) In fact, I think pretending the problem can be kept in-house, “nothing really wrong,” would be far more worrisome. Again, this is about the suicide attempts. </p>

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<p>Unfortunately, the graduate training program may not be directly involved in provision of care to undergrads, warblers. Looking at their site, it appears that they have a stress center and a center for anxiety and mood disorders, but its unclear if these offer training opportunities for the graduate students or are separate outpatient clinics. And typically faculty are doing supervision and research, dot a lot of direct clinical work. But regardless, your point is well taken.</p>

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<p>Well, shall we talk about trampling the rights of the mentally ill? There’s a reason schools aren,t winning those lawsuits, folks. One, the standard of treatment for MIs has changed. The medical model, where the patient adheres to a treatment regimen designed to eliminate all symptoms of the MI is no longer the gold standard. Why? Because those treatments can have terrible side effects, and somewhere along the line we decide that the mentally ill should be allowed to determine for themselves what recovery looks like, even if it means fewer meds and more remaining symptoms of the disease. What that means is that a school doesn’t get to demand a treatment protocol for one set of illness that they do not demand for another. They do not get to say because you are mentally ill, you have to do x y and z or leave while this person with a physical illness, well she can comply or not. </p>

<p>Students with disabilities are entitled to due process, and kicking someone out of the dorm room or mandating a leave because of a hospitalization without following that process (complete with appeal) is going to earn a school an unfavorable legal judgement.</p>

<p>As parents we might say yes, we want to bring the kids home, and that is our right, but is it the right of an institution to deny one group od disabled students, the mentally ill, the same opportunities and rights afforded other students because they “might” self harm. And then let’s talk about the sheer number of students who exhibit symptoms of anxiety or depression severe enough to interfere with functioning(even though for the vast majority such symptoms never rise to the level of disease). How many do you want to send home because they “might” self harm?</p>

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<p>Well, are they making unusual demands of kids with depression or other syndromes? Is visiting the health clinic or school psychologists/psychiatrists really a kiss of death? Not for D2. (And there were enough staff available to suggest they were kept busy with a number of students. Same at both colleges I’ve worked at.) In the case of W.P., it wasn’t the hospitalization that triggered the suggestion to seek to take a leave. It was the self-harm he did attempt- and the prior times. It wasn’t speculation. </p>

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<p>Anyone who is deemed to be a danger to self or other should be removed and put somewhere safe. Whether it is a mental institution, psych ward, jail (for those who are criminal in this regard0, a half way house, a person who is suicidal should be so placed. That is the law. </p>

<p>Those students who HAD such issues should be cleared by a psychiatric panel that can determine if the person is safe to be on campus. There may be conditions imposed on such a person, and if not met, the student can be forced to leave campus. Though mental illness, IMO, and by official definition, is an illness, just like any other disease or medical condition, it has the additional quality of being mandated by law, those who cross the line of being a danger, to being " put away". </p>

<p>I have a major problem with the way colleges handle mental illness. They do not want to put the time, resources, money into it. There should be a group of specialists to determine the extent of the issues and whether a student is in danger remaining in the school environment, around others a the school, the danger being either to self or to any others. It should be a safety issue.</p>

<p>Those who can function safely under conditions should have a requirement to being monitored for their problems, so that relapses, regressions, can be addressed asap. THough I agree with colleges that have mental health requirements, they should be tied to safety and risks, with an infrastructure and experts on hand to diagnose, treat, monitor assess those with such issues. Few schools do this the right way.</p>

<p>The way to handle this is look at the safety of those who are so affected, and make that a primary concern; that and the safety of other students. Yes, it is really sad that a student would fear asking for help for fear of potentially being discharged at school, but being discharged from school could save such students’ lives at times. Unlike,say cancer, or other physical ailment (non contagious), mental illness can cause enormous harm and death. Still, a school would not allow a student with an untreated medical condition degenerate after a point–s/he’d be taken to a medical facility. With mental illness, the law goes further allowing the rights to be taken from those who are a danger to self and others. I’ve known many folks who suspected, even knew that they had serious, life threatening medical conditions refuse to be examined, much less treated, and they go until they break at times. With mental illness, the law allows intervention before that point, and colleges, work places, any place should intervene when danger is present. That the person does not want the treatment, the intervention, being committed" is just too bad. The risks are too great to let things go beyond a certain point.</p>

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<p>You’re right. an institution can impose conditions on any student. What it may not do is impose greater or stricter conditions on the mentally ill, which seems to be what many schools try to do. The ADA prohibits withholding opportunities to those who can participate with reasonable accommodations. Attempts at accommodations and due process must proceed action on the part of an institution, even in the case of a student who has attempted suicide, or the institution is in violation of the ADA. This does not mean a student with an MI can never be r moved from campus. It just means schools have to stop treating them under another standard based on the fact that they are mentally ill. if anyone is a threat to others, and the threat is credible under whatever means test the school uses to determine that, the school follows established processes to remove the threat and it has nothing to do with a student’s MI. </p>