SHOULD the SAT and ACT be treated equally?

<p>I realize that this thread will probably be controversial due to the sensitivity surrounding the implications of my argument, but nevertheless, this is an internet forum, not a political stage; we are here to share and refine ideas, not to scrutinize so-called "distasteful" thoughts.</p>

<p>I would think that, by now, it's accepted that virtually all colleges accept both the SAT and ACT and that the vast majority, including those schools most talked-about here on CC. Perhaps there is still no true way of verifying whether admissions officers treat them equally, as there are always uncontrollable variables, perhaps an intrinsic bias, but I really do think that by now there is a concerted effort to regard the tests equally.</p>

<p>And alas, that is not the focal point of this discussion. Rather, my opening question is whether admissions officers really should regard the two exams equally.</p>

<p>Let's not beat around the bush here; I believe that they shouldn't, at least not by the elite tier of schools. First of all, there is an obvious inconsistency in treating test scores as stone-cold numbers when those numbers, depending on the test, mean different things. And this is the greatest issue I have with the two tests being treated equally. A 36 on the ACT isn't really equal to a 2370 on the SAT; not because one score is more impressive than the other, but because they are simply scores in different realms measuring different abilities. And this is not a secret nor is it something either Collegeboard or ACT Inc. tries to conceal. </p>

<p>To generalize without getting too much in depth, the SAT measures logic and reasoning skills. The SAT itself originated as an intelligence test, and while it can no longer be said to be an effective intelligence test, the SAT does to a degree still gauge intelligence. That is not to say that the ACT does not gauge intelligence at all, but by essentially all accounts the ACT is more oriented towards a different skill set. Here is a quote I pulled from NPR's website:
[quote]

[Take the ACT if] You are more academic than "test savvy." The ACT seems to most people to be more curriculum-based and thus more straightforward. There is more advanced math content (logarithms, trigonometry, conic sections, etc.), but it seems more like a regular test you might encounter in school.

[/quote]
The ACT is, essentially, a test meant to determine how good of a student you are and how successful you will be at college work. The SAT is supposed to have the same goal, but multiple critics have pointed out the relatively weak correlations between SAT score and college GPA. They draw the conclusion that because the SAT does not accurately indicate college success, it is of little worth.</p>

<p>Not only do I disagree with the arguments but I disagree with Collegeboard's statement that this is what the SAT is meant to do - and ironically, because I disagree with the SAT's supposed purpose I support it. Because the most accurate indicator of college GPA is, far and away, high school GPA. And no standardized test, the SAT or the ACT, can ever replace that. But it does seem that the same proponents who criticize the SAT generally support the ACT because it is probably a closer indicator of college GPA than the SAT is. But here is where the center of my argument lies: doesn't this render the ACT arguably redundant and superfluous in its intent? If high school transcripts exist, why the need to further establish a student's ability in school? Of course, some will argue that not all high school transcripts were born the same, and I agree, but isn't that the purpose of the SAT subject tests (which are arguably the Collegeboard-equivalent to the ACT)? As I write up my argument, I have considered another possibility: perhaps the ACT is perfectly fine, but that an SAT reasoning test score should be accompanied with an ACT score, just like SAT subject test scores must be accompanied with an SAT reasoning test score.</p>

<p>Of course, now you may be wondering why I think the SAT reasoning takes precedent over other standardized tests. It boils down to this: I am not necessarily in support of the SAT but rather whatever can serve as the best gauge of intrinsic intelligence out there. And if that test for high-schoolers is the SAT, then I support the SAT. The ACT simply doesn't hold up in this regard. And arguably the SAT doesn't either: when was the last time you heard that the SAT score is manipulated by an array of factors outside of intelligence? Two seconds ago (:p)? And that is a perfectly fine point, but nevertheless irrelevant to the bulk of the discussion, which is whether the SAT and ACT should be held in equal regard. As much as the SAT score can be manipulated by outside factors, the ACT can be manipulated tenfold simply because it really was never meant to measure intelligence. The ACT is a required exam in multiple states in the US. It indicates classroom ability and whether the teachers are doing their jobs correctly or not. If the SAT were mandatory in a state, imagine how much flack (and I would argue deserved flack) such a policy would get.</p>

<p>Look, if another standardized test, one that measured intelligence virtually regardless of external factors, emerged and was being used by colleges, I would support that and not the SAT. Now, why do I think intelligence is an important measure for college applicants? If you've been closely reading my thread, you'll note that I made a point to say that perhaps the SAT should only be favored by the elite tier of schools. A state school would do perfectly fine admitting excellent students with ambition that, regardless of natural intelligence, will do very well in college and be very successful down the road. An Ivy League school can't always say the same. As I've noted above, I do believe that ambition is the overwhelming factor in determining success in life. But I recall reading an article of the origins of affirmative action: Ivy League schools wanted a diverse student body that would go on to lead diverse roles in life; they didn't want only doctors or lawyers or people that would do very successfully but lead relatively undistinguished lives. Rather, they wanted people who, thirty years down the road, would be Nobel laureates or tenured professors and researchers. They wanted entrepreneurs with innovation who would become far more valuable to a school's name than ten thousand lawyers could. </p>

<p>Hard work alone simply cannot add up to these things. And neither can intelligence alone; let's face it, for the most part, these remarkably successful people had a great deal of luck on their side. But to suggest that intelligence didn't have anything to do with their accomplishments (or more to do with their accomplishments than a successful but undistinguished person's accomplishments) would be a far too general and misguided opinion as well. Intelligence simply does have a place in determining the likelihood that a person eventually leads a truly distinguished life (and yes, on all levels intelligence still retains its place in determining success, however controversial such a claim may be), and if these elite schools are interested in unraveling more of these types (really, any school for that matter) then I cannot see why schools hold the two tests in equal regard. Or rather I do see why but I think it's unfortunate that a school either does not see more value in an SAT score than an ACT score or is too politically correct to acknowledge their differences.</p>

<p>I am finished with this long-winded post; may the discussion begin!</p>

<p>Your rant needs a LOT of work… :)</p>

<p>1) If NPR is your only source of “facts”, you need to broaden out.
2) CB makes no such claim. It’s claim is that the SAT predicts FROSH grades, not college grades.
3) States have mandated the ACT as a way to respond to NCLB.</p>

<p>If you wish to argue for IQ tests, have at it, but recognize that IQ tests come in many different flavors (kinda like the SAT & ACT…)</p>

<p>^ Yes, well I typed it all out in a sort of rush, which is why it’s so long-winded.</p>

<p>1) [url=<a href=“Google”>Google]Google[/url</a>]
I don’t know why I picked NPR; I figured they would adequately serve the purpose of establishing my point but evidently not. Regardless, there is an abundance of sources that state differences between the SAT and ACT. I suppose if you disagree with these differences then we can agree to disagree? :stuck_out_tongue: Not really sure how I can prove how the tests are different, other than that their differences are widely accepted.
2) Suppose we do use frosh grades and not complete college grades for the same argument. Does anything ostensibly change?
3) It doesn’t change the fact that the states have decided that the ACT is sufficient in this purpose. All I meant to say was that the ACT is a very school-oriented exam.</p>

<p>And no, I am not arguing for the usual IQ test for the very reason you stated. Rather, because the two main standardized tests for college admissions are currently the SAT and the ACT, I argued why I felt one was more useful than the other.</p>

<p>I’m glad to see that the necessary memorization of vocabulary, grammar rules, and an superfluous 25-minute required essay is a good indicator of intelligience (SAT), apparently moreso than the ACT which does base itself on such a premise.</p>

<p>I think either test should be an option as they test for different strengths. People who memorize a lot of stuff and are good test takers should take the SAT while people who base their testing on logic should go with the ACT.</p>

<p>monster:</p>

<p>I concur that the tests are different, but I reject the assumption that “the ACT is a very school-oriented exam” vis a vis the SAT. The simple fact is that the vast majority of kids do equally well (or poorly) on both exams. Perhaps 75-80%?</p>

<p>Yes, HS gpa is the best predictor of Frosh grades, bar none. But, HS gpa PLUS standardized tests is even better. Of course the standardized tests with the highest predictability and validity are neither SAT nor ACT – they are the Subject Tests, including the old Writing test, and AP/IB tests.</p>

<p>CR: Vocabulary based and "Critical
" Reading Based</p>

<p>Math: Reading Comprehension (The math on the test should be known by almost high school students</p>

<p>Writing: Not to sure lol</p>

<p>Great post monstor344. </p>

<p>In order to eliminate any incidental bias, do you mind telling us your ACT and SAT scores?
I mean if you saw all of your friends get into HYP with 33 ACTs but yourself not get in with the equivalent SAT score, you could have been hyperventilating on CC. (Just a scenario). </p>

<p>Reason I bring this up is that I often find myself writing biased posts. Living on the east coast, I took the ACT and did extremely well compared to my SAT score, and I usually oppose when people say that east coast schools have more regard toward the SAT than the ACT. </p>

<p>It may be that I am writing a biased argument here as well, even if my intention may be to just discuss your post. Nevertheless, I find your argument very interesting and sound to a large extent.</p>

<p>

My suggestion wasn’t that neither test indicates intelligence but rather that the SAT is more indicative of intelligence than is the SAT. Obviously, just like there is a strong correlation between grades and SAT scores, I’m sure there is a correlation between ACT and SAT scores, just not an invariable correlation.</p>

<p>@hotinpursuit - I have only seen ACT material, not officially or unofficially tested in it. In fact, I suppose you can say that I was inspired to eventually create a thread like this when I first saw the ACT material because it was clear the material was of a different nature, particularly the reading section. As for the SAT, I scored a 2400 but realize that this thread is merely the culmination of my sentiments for the past year (even back when I was struggling to raise my critical reading score). Believe what you wish but my personal bias isn’t at play here.</p>

<p>@monstor344 How many times did you take the SAT? If you have taken it more than once, how did you raise your CR score and what were your previous scores? I’m also having trouble raising my goddamn CR score lol.</p>

<p>The ACT is more geared towards students that have done well throughout high school and have absorbed the material.</p>

<p>The SAT is more about natural ability. Of course, you can study and get a great score, but I’d say it’s much easier to process and actually “study” for the ACT than the SAT.</p>

<p>I wish I’d read more as a kid, my CR score isn’t awful, but there’s definitely room for improvement. A girl that I know who’s a reading addict scored a 2310, and I feel that it was because she has been reading forever. </p>

<p>They are both standardized tests, it’s hard to decipher between them.</p>

<p>The SAT is a superior test. </p>

<p>It’s as much a physical exercise as a mental one, it gauges your ability to learn much better, and is much more accessible for everyone, with its lower overall knowledge in subjects necessary to succeed.</p>

<p>It’s a phenomenal test.</p>

<p>Ya…I agree! The ACT is inferior to the SAT.</p>

<p>The premise of all of this is that it would make any difference. If someone has a 33 ACT and someone else has a 2220 SAT (the Harvard average) do you think the admissions personnel sit around talking about which one may be better based on test score? Of course not, each has a high score and then they go on to everything else to see if they want to admit them. The comment that the “SAT orignated as an intelligence test” indicates the SAT folks have been successful in keeping most in the dark by never mentioning or adopting over the years the actual history about the creation of the test since it was created by a white supremecist Princeton professor whose objective was to create a test that would keep all the low lifes of the world, meaning to him anyone who was not an upper crust white anglo-saxon american, from getting into college and mixing their genes with the superior race. Thus, using army tests for officers in the first world war as a model which had been based to some degree on the earliest intelligence tests, he set out and succeeded in creating a test that was geared to the educational background of upper crust white americans. Amazingly, even he later disclaimed the test should be used for anything when he had an “epiphany” about his own social views after Hitler came to power professing the concept of superior race.</p>

<p>Fine, the SAT has a controversial history to it. Regardless, up until 1995 many IQ societies accepted an SAT score for admission, and some still do. The ACT to my knowledge has never been acceptable for IQ society admission.</p>

<p>

But the suggestion here is that just because one score “converts” to the other means that they are equal when they measure different skill sets. And I would actually argue that the ACT tests the more important set of skills, but with the equally strong or better measures of grades and SAT2s, I feel the SAT provides data that is more original, more useful.</p>

<p>How do you define intelligence? Is the intelligence that correlates with highly successful businessmen the same as intelligence that correlates with award-winning novelists? (just one comparison out of many). As you said, the SAT’s reliability for predicting post-secondary success is questionable, even though that is what is used for. </p>

<p>The SAT can predict with reasonable accuracy a person’s ability in reading comprehension (of one language, at least), mathematics, and writing, but it is highly unlikely that the SAT is a suitable predictor of outstanding, publicity grabbing achievements later in life. Also, none of the areas that the SAT tests are “innate”. A person who has been reading more will likely score better on CR, just as a person who has done more practice with math will score higher on Math, that doesn’t mean that they have a higher innate intelligence than their peers, who may have spent their time socializing or playing sports.</p>

<p>Again, my suggestion wasn’t that the SAT is purely or even mostly a test of innate intelligence; rather, it was that the SAT is a test of relatively more innate intelligence than is the ACT.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that both tests have a curve. So, scores on the same percentile should be comparable. True, some people may score a few percentiles up on the ACT (or SAT), but nothing drastic. I took both tests, and while my SAT score was good, my ACT score was definitely better (98/97?th percentile & 99th). And, I think it would be easier to study for the SAT, what with the million test prep courses and books out there (there are less materials available for the ACT). You also have to realize that the SAT is very unimportant in some regions, so it is unreasonable to expect that everyone will take it. I live in the Midwest, and people thought it was strange that I was even taking it.</p>