Should you incur substantial debt for that "dream" school? or an arts major?

<p>No debt at all for my DD. Her private U had good financial aid, and we were comfortable with our EFC. :)</p>

<p>earlier, i saw a bit of discussion of a 'dream school' being an oxymoron. There was a 'yes it is' by mini and a 'no it isn't' by beurah.</p>

<p>my quick take on it: both are right...since there are different kinds of kids. If you are a person who is designing epedemiological studies at six years old, I can easily see how that person could be dreaming about a particular college in the future, reading up on the details of the college, immersing yourself in it, knowing it thru and thru.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if one is more like my D, who knew she'd go to SOME college down the road, but for whom all the colleges that we have considered are, to her, 'about the same', then dream and school should not be put into the same phrase.</p>

<p>If one is more the latter kind of person, we should all remember that colleges are products that are being sold in a marketplace by professional marketers. As such, their images are promoted carefully to attract certain kinds of consumers, especially ones with certain kinds of discretionary assets and income, certain zip codes and demographics, and certain credit scores.</p>

<p>The colleges' marketers will attempt to encourage the dreaminess of their school with their glossy brochures and websites and cherry picking 'quick facts'. I recall one college's brochure showing this nice picture of a 1920's building with great architectural detail such as tall bay windows. I visited that college and I know that is the ONLY building that looks like that on the campus. The rest of the buildings are uninteresting modern affairs. I also saw, quite humorously, a college with a brochure showing a handsome clearskin guy standing next to a tree - sent to my D, and I saw another brochure of pretty clearskinned girls at a male HS friend of my D's. </p>

<p>As our kids will learn in philosophy 101, when they read Plato's story of the cave and the fire, we just see the appearances, or shadows, and not the things behind the shadows. A dream school, for most of us, is just that, a dream, a chimera, and we should not be too attached to the wisps produced by the marketers' talents.</p>

<p>To get back to the original post specifically about CMU theater arts majors. We are footing the entire bill (minus small merit aid) with the money I put aside over the years as an artist in the film industry. Some years, I was earning way more money than my engineer husband. I didn't encourage the arts, but that's where her talent and passion is. While the theater scene doesn't pay particularly well, the film industry can be a very good living, with union benefits and a great retirement plan to boot. If you are the best and reliable at what you do, you are always in demand. Yes it's extremely competitive-but it comes down to who you know, and in Hollywood, the CMU alumni association is one of the great networking power houses. My point is, don't be so quick to judge the relative income potential of the arts. We could have spent that money on ourselves, and insisted on a practical major at the state U, but it makes us happy to help her have a life pursuing her passion. I am 100% sure she will be making a good living doing what she loves, as the conservatory program is equivalent to a 4 year professional apprenticeship. I understand your financial points, I bought her the book "Smart Women Finish Rich", which she read cover to cover (recommended by our financial planner). Thanks to H, we have both been able to put substantial savings into our 401K plans. The only sacrifice we are making is we are both driving 10 year old cars and don't eat out much. Hopefully that will change after she graduates. Our plan has been retirement fund first, education fund second, living expenses third. And never carry credit card debt! To all you art majors and their parents out there a message of hope. It can be done!</p>

<p>My husband's cousin went to Brown, a liberal arts major, didn't really know what she wanted to do. Her parents incurred over 100K in debt, as they didn't qualify for financial aid, but had no savings.</p>

<p>She is now a real estate agent. Luckily, she married a wealthy young man. Her parents had to sell their big house, and are paying off her debt. It was very sobering.</p>

<p>If we don't get the financial aid we need, my son will have to go to a state school. Luckily, in NY, we have some good ones. I will go into debt, but I have three kids, and I don't want to incur more than 100K debt for all three.</p>

<p>Maybe if she married a wealthy man, they should take on her school payments, rather than wringing them out of people trying to retire! Just a thought....</p>

<p>I think this story once again points out the difference between wants and needs. She wanted an expensive education, but certainly didn't need 4 ivy years to sell houses. I want some nice things too, but they have to wait because we are trying to be responsible with college so nobody gets sucked into debilitating debt. Of course, many will say that the educational experience is worth any amount. To each his own. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Also, once again, I have to say that the middle class is left out of the whole financial aid situation. Nobody should have to sell their home.</p>

<p>Update: S took a break from onstage acting in NYC to work tech backstage. The play stars Barishnikof but they call him Misha. Four One-Acts by Beckett. Good money.</p>

<p>My daughter doesn't have a dream school but does have a "dream summer job" which is working at an overnight camp that pays room and board but not much else. I said she can only have dream summer if she goes to an instate school or Harvard.</p>

<p>Are you referring to Baryishnokov? That sounds like a great opportunity!</p>

<p>Congrats on S and Baryishnikov! Sounds very impressive!</p>

<p>I agree - no one should have to sell their home for college. BUT, this girl and her parents were all sold on the benefits of an Ivy league education, and the prestige that went along with telling everyone where she went to school. They made this decision, knowing their daughter. Maybe for a more motivated kid it would have been worth it, but to make a decision based on prestige seems silly to me. Fit and finances are so much more important, in my humble view.</p>

<p>I can see myself mortgaging my life if my kid got into Brown just so I could tell all the neighbors and friends and family where my kid was going and validate my worth as a parent!!!</p>

<p>Baryishnokov !!</p>

<p>Yes, and thanks for correcting my spelling. </p>

<p>Original music by Phillip Glass. Easier to spell.</p>

<p>But it's his third year in NYC after graduation, and basically has just been in one show after another, "developing his craft." He has a small student loan to repay, lives extremely frugally, doesn't own a car like many New Yorkers, and actually cooks in his apartment most of the time. </p>

<p>I have no crystal ball. I don't know if he'll make it big, but he is very satisfied with his life at this moment. H is about to work with him about setting up his own IRA, and contributing to it monthly, however small, just to get started. In the arts nobody ever looks out for you financially. If you take on a first job in a corporation or even a nonprofit, they might sit you down at human resources and tell you all about your health insurance, your pension (maybe..), but not so in theater. If this doesn't work out, he figures he'll go to law school as a mature applicant, but for now he's progressing. The ability to take rejection is extremely important, because it's a situation where there are many "no's" for every "yes" and it's all a matter of fit for the part or position. I am proud of him simply for making the try. If you can make it past the first year in that city, it's an accomplishment.</p>

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<p>This made me laugh...but it has a ring of truth to it. Others seem to think that I MUST be a great parent since my kid got into a super-selective college. HA!</p>

<p>paying3tuitions, thank you for your words of wisdom - we're going through a similar situation with two kids in the arts in nyc - it sounds like your S is definitely making progress in his field, and according to my S, it takes time - he's one year out of college, and has been freelancing in his area of interest -working on different projects, etc. D is still in school but will probably have a much different approach when it comes time to gaining employment - but whatever works, as long as they're able to support themselves.</p>

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<p>Yep. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.</p>

<p>My friend's mom got all three of her children into Harvard; by "got" I mean they were grounded and screamed at if their grades were less than perfect. But at her funeral she was eulogized as being so proud that all of her children went to Harvard....</p>

<p>paying3, congrats to your son. It will be a fun project for him. I remember when Baryshnikov defected in Toronto many years ago. I met him a few times years later through a mutual friend, also a dancer, when they co-founded a dance project. He's an interesting man, and a very good actor, who is particularly good onstage. NYTW does excellent work and it's exciting to be involved in a show during it's 25th anniversary season. James Nicola has had many wonderful successes and it's certainly a good place for a young theatre professional to get a gig. Best of luck to your S!</p>

<p>p3t, congrats to your son for following his heart. Having a friend whose 3(!) daughters are doing the same I know how difficult the entertainment profession is. Because they all needed to take out student loans as undergrad, they all have other jobs to pay the bills and this does hinder their ability to audition and continue to take acting/voice classes. Its not a choice that curmudgeonly old me would make but they are extemely happy with their choices.</p>

<p>But hey--the girl who got into Brown married a rich guy! So there WAS some benefit!</p>

<p>Paying3,
I enjoy reading about your son. I think he is doing great that he has managed to be either on stage or behind the scenes since graduating and is pursuing his field. I really admire him and would say he has been successful so far to be working consistently. Best to him on the job on Baryshnikov's project.</p>