<p>Mombot, I guess she earned her MRS. degree.</p>
<p>I don't believe in substantial debt for any school. My D has a dream school in mind & wants an artsy major. Merit & talent $$ is available there, and she is aware that she must be awarded some to make this school happen. She has a year to line up the matches, safeties, & fall-backs and "learn to love them."</p>
<p>It's wonderful when there is enough family support and money to ignore the costs of college, and that of borrowing to meet those costs. In many families, other priorities come before that of a "dream" college. With our first, we went all out with the same philosophy as many of the posters here who put college choice as a prime priority. At this time, we cannot afford to continue this way with our other kids, much as we would love to do so. Our parents instead of being able to help out are increasingly in need of our financial and hands on help. Other medical situations have arisen. Job security is endangered. A major law suit has turned things upside down. Certain income sources have disintegrated. It is no longer a wise decision to invest the amount necessary for a private school. In our case we won't get financial aid since our current financial statement is solid to pay. It's the future that we are facing that is the problem. We are facing a number of possibilities that have turned into likelihoods that are going to need $$s for which there is no financial aid and since they involve much more of difference in quality of life than choice of colleges, trading down in these areas is not a good idea. Yet we are lucky in that we have been given a window to peek into the future and see these possibilities. We have friends whose parents are wrecked. They gave so much to their kids, and they are now old, ill and destitute. At the time when their kids are looking into college costs for the next generation. Had they had more of a safety net, things would be a lot easier for all involved. Can't afford the college your kid prefers, yes, it hurts. Can't afford that stem cell replacement and surgery from the one doc at the one hospital that can do it; heart ache. And try to get a loan for that one!</p>
<p>That sure puts things in perspective.</p>
<p>It's true - everyone needs money for a rainy day, and it's always important to think ahead, that's for sure.</p>
<p>Thanks taxguy for repositioning this thread. My S was recently encouraged to apply ED to an acting program by a person from the school. The program is considered an 'ivy acting' school. We said "no way" to my son. We could afford it, but it would deplete the entire college savings pool and make us the equivalent of 'house poor' for four years; plus, my wife and I want to retire in six years. He applied regular decision, and my wife and I are keeping our fingers crossed that he is turned down, though his heart is set on going to this school. Since he's our only child and we suffer a bit from the 'brag disease' descibed above - most of my co-worker's kids are ivy bound brainiacs, I can see myself working the arithmatic to make it possible, if accepted. But, then again, I can track down this thread, show it to my wife and son, and 'get real'. </p>
<p>By the way, things happen. When taxguy started this thread, I was training to do my sixth ironman triathlon. Then I was diagnosed with cancer. Fortunately, my employer has been paying me 100% with all benefits since early summer while I spend my days blogging while watching TCM - and, yes, employer, I am working on my book. I am fine now (scheduled for another ironman 10 months from now), and am returning to work next semester. But if I get sick again (or, if it happens to you), I will not get such a deal. What if my kid is in this $45k/year program and I am on disability. Hence the suggestion above; make sure you are prepared for the rainy days.</p>
<p>But, more importantly, he is applying to 10-plus programs that are significantly cheaper than this dream school, though these BFA or college/university reputations are not as high. Assuming a family with limited wealth, it seems less than rational to choose the $$$$ option, instead of option B; retain college savings and provide my S career options, even while we are living the good, but simpler, life in retirement.</p>
<p>It's hard to turn down the cruise ship programs, whether they are ivies, the top BFA programs, or the most eloquent LACs (i.e., Sewanee - I'd be happy to live in a trailer on this beautiful 10K acre campus, if I could use the facilities - Smith, Washington & Lee, etc.), but I am not sure that the R.O.I. (financial, social, psychological) is, in the long run, that much different from a solid, more affordable program.</p>
<p>Hmmm....</p>
<p>Back in 1975 I entered Stanford. Stayed in nice on campus housing. At the time I knew I was interested in a low paying social service career after graduation. I knew my parents would sacrifice to pay all four years... I also knew the guilt I would have felt not being in a position to help pay them back, understanding the unrealistic expectation they had that a Stanford degree would guarantee a handsome salary post graduation.</p>
<p>I transferred to UCLA, worked 15 hours per week, and took a one bedroom apartment with two roomates. Didn't spend much. </p>
<p>Reduced the annual spend from 1st yr. Stanford to 2nd-4th yr. UCLA by 80%.</p>
<p>Graduated guilt free and debt free.</p>
<p>Later went to UCLA's Anderson School MBA program. Again, graduated debt free and guilt free.</p>
<p>DunninLA: I know it has been a long time, but do you remember feeling that your experience at UCLA was inferior to that at Stanford? There are so many discussions on this board about private vs. public education, about ivy superiority, etc. Yet, not many people have actual experience at both. Just curious....</p>
<p>lkf725, I too attended both a public university(Ohio State) and a private university(Cornell) many years ago in engineering. I have never considered that I was academically short changed in the least by attending OSU and found that I more than held my own in my graduate studies at Cornell. Anecdotally I had two golf buddies who attended Cornell as engineering majors too. Freshman year we used the same texts in Calc(Fisher and Ziber), physics(Halliday and Resnick) and chemistry(Sienko and Plane). The interesting thing is that in chemistry, my primary text(Mahan) was much more theory based and S&P was used occasionally as a supplemental text. And do not even ask why I remember such useless information 42 years later.</p>
<p>I was a first generation college student in my family and we were very naive about colleges in general. The funny thing is that we did not perceive any differences between a college like Cornell and OSU and merely ruled out private colleges from the gitgo based on full sticker price, assuming this was the price everyone paid.</p>
<p>
[quote]
physics(Halliday and Resnick)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This book is used at most schools, even at 2 colleges that attend.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Back in 1975 I entered Stanford. Stayed in nice on campus housing. At the time I knew I was interested in a low paying social service career after graduation. I knew my parents would sacrifice to pay all four years... I also knew the guilt I would have felt not being in a position to help pay them back, understanding the unrealistic expectation they had that a Stanford degree would guarantee a handsome salary post graduation.</p>
<p>I transferred to UCLA, worked 15 hours per week, and took a one bedroom apartment with two roomates. Didn't spend much.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's also good idea to know that you can always transfer to public school. Nothing is set in stone, if one's financial picture happens to change.</p>
<p>I have very mixed feelings. I am a product of SUNY(undergrad) and CUNY(Grad). I chose a low paying field, social work, of which I have alway enjoyed. However, the low pay has always caused me financial worry despite my husband's good income. (Despite 26 years of a good marriage, knowing whether I could support myself has always weighed heavily on my mind). But, I graduated debt free while we spent the first 10 years of marriage paying off medical schools loans for my husband.
We have saved for all 3 of our kids so they can go wherever they wish but graduate school is their responsibility financially. My son, a top student, can go to Rutger's for free and use the savings for Medical School, his intended career. However, my husband has insisted that his undergraduate education at Columbia offered him a world class education and feels Rutger's wouldn't compare. He wants our son to experience the top. I would too, but he can also graduate debt free from Med School if he takes advantage of Rutger's now.</p>
<p>The offspring of parents who insist on designer clothes, the latest big screen tv, and a huge house (whether they can afford it or not) often do not belong in public colleges because they often have a tendency to be miserable and to make everyone around them miserable. Accordingly, they should generally go to the most prestigious private school that will have them (whether they can afford it or not) and proudly display their choice with a sticker affixed to the back window of their luxury automobile.</p>
<p>Sawdust, I resent your condescending comments. My husband's desire to have our son attend a top university is not for "designer label" reasons or to affix a sticker on the back of our car. His experience at Columbia's core curriculum enriched him and cultivated him. Except for Univ of Chicago and Yale's Directed Studies program, there are no other places that produce such an education anymore. Schools have dropped those requirements in favor of "distribution requirements." There is a huge difference. </p>
<p>And if you think that a kid whose has an economic advantage in life would not take to a state school, then are you proposing that economically disadvantaged kids should avoid private ones? Your logic would dictate that they would not fit in. I suggest you look inside yourself!</p>
<p>It seems so shallow to be "elitist" in the sense of attending the private school, or the most competitive school, or whatever. But, after talking to someone who is closely involved in film, I have come to appreciate the importance of who you know in getting ahead in acting/theater/film. So, teachers, alums, AND peers in the program may be very important in the long run. The question is, then, do the elite schools offer the best contacts/connections in the field?</p>
<p>omom, Consider Rutger's honor program? Heard states flagship' honor program usually pretty good.</p>
<p>letsfigureitout, the answer is 'yes'. The first advise I got couple of years ago from an ex-cowork is "nowadays the only college worth paying are the ivy schools. Since fortun 500 only go to these schools for job fairs".....however, people in different circle might have different perspective.</p>
<p>Some of us don't send our kids to colleges for the job possibilities. We send them to college for the education.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The question is, then, do the elite schools offer the best contacts/connections in the field?
[/quote]
Think my answer is not out of line to this question? Otherwise why you need best contacts/connections? humor me.</p>
<p>Love this thread. Been reading it off and on for a long time. Our DS turned down several great schools with little to no aid for the once in a lifetime full ride offer at the 2nd tier LAC. He is happy as a clam and thriving. Not an Arts major, but I think the lessons of debt vs dream school can be universally applied. We have a friend whose daughter is attending an Ivy. They ran up nearly 100K in debt (daughter and parents) thru the end of her sophomore year until the daughter joined the AF Reserves and established independent student status which is not an easy thing to do these days. She reapproached her Ivy with the new financial info and her financial aid turned upside down overnight with the Ivy picking up most of the tab. She did this all herself. Smart kid. I think she is a History major.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Since fortun 500 only go to these schools for job fairs
[/quote]
Your co-worker couldn't be more wrong. Even if you just consider the Fortune 100, if they only hired Ivy grads, they would run out of warm bodies to fill their open slots in the blink of an eye. Not to mention that it is small businesses, and not the giant corporations, that represent the vast majority of career opportunities across our nation.</p>
<p>I believe my co-work was talking about 'on campus recruting', more in a sense of the first job with no convienced working experience. Of course Fortune 500 receive resume from all over the world.</p>
<p>Depending on what you do, contact is very important. My daughter has been tutoring a student from her high school (yes, it's private) for a few years. She is paid more than most of programmers/hr because the parents don't want to seem cheap, and my daughter is also very good. The parents have also told her that she could work for for their family software company if she is "not busy" this summer. To get an internship later, she will contact friends' parents from school and probably family friends. Her uncle has already told her that she should spend time networking with kids from school because they are going to be her colleagues and business partners someday.</p>
<p>To be very frank, the reason most people pay for those top schools is to get a union card. You need that card for entry. If the reason we send our kids to college is purely for education, then we could send all of them to community college or Phoenix University because they probably all use same text books. Those top schools weed out students for employers and graduate schools. Those schools alumni hire each other's kids and students from their schools. Those schools also admit those alumi's kids, so the circle continues.</p>
<p>In other countries, often there is no way of breaking out one's social status. In the US, education is a way for us to move up into different social class, and that is why people are willing to spend $50,000/year to send their kids to those schools.</p>
<p>I know this is not a very PC post.</p>