<p>I'm really not trying to be adversarial, but...</p>
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His experience at Columbia's core curriculum enriched him and cultivated him. Except for Univ of Chicago and Yale's Directed Studies program, there are no other places that produce such an education anymore.
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You commented that sawdust's post was condescending. One might think the same thing about yours. ;) Where does this leave the rest of us? Can no other schools enrich and cultivate their students?</p>
<p>There was also the question/comment about who would fit in at what kinds of schools:
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And if you think that a kid whose has an economic advantage in life would not take to a state school, then are you proposing that economically disadvantaged kids should avoid private ones?
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At the risk of opening up another can of worms, it seems to me that expensive private and elite colleges are most accessible to the extremes of the financial spectrum, while state schools are filled with middle class kids who are neither rich enough to pay for private education nor poor enough to get substantial financial aid.</p>
<p>And finally a kernel of truth from oldfort:
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To be very frank, the reason most people pay for those top schools is to get a union card.
<p>AnotherNJmom - sorry, but your coworker is dead wrong. When I was in grad school at IOWA STATE, I interviewed on campus with several Fortune 100 companies and accepted a job offer with one of them. Several undergrads that I knew also interviewed with said companies as well.</p>
<p>I know, I know - the plural of anecdote yada yada yada. But I couldn't let that statement go by uncontested.</p>
<p>scout59, thanks, it good to know, they still do. When was you in IOWA State? I knew they used to when the job market is 'hot', in fact I knew one from my CUNY (grads) was offered a job by IBM in campus job fair, but it was sometime like a dacad ago when the job market was extremly hot.</p>
<p>"Where does that leave the rest of us?" You forget that I started off in my first thread saying I, myself, was a product of SUNY and CUNY. In fact, that leaves the rest of us getting a good education, but not a top one. Sorry to burst your bubble, but after 26 years with a man who graduated Columbia, I can see first-hand the difference between the education he received and the one I did. The few schools that are left with a core curriculum provide a basis of understanding western civilization like no other because students are entrenched in The Great Books like Socrates, etc. few of which kids elect to take anymore. Given the choice, most kids will opt for what they like or what comes easy, especially when it come to electives to improve their GPA. They can take science for non-majors, etc. And for that matter, ivy leagues like that of Harvard and Princeton do not require that anymore as well. So that puts them, in my opinion, in the same category as the rest. They might have more famous professors, a greater endowment to offer more frills, and smaller classes for enriched discussion, but they do not provide any more of a better foundation than that of the state schools. I also happen to have 2 older kids in college right now not at ivy leagues or core schools so I see first-hand. And finally, my issue which you missed, was trying to decide whether to have my son use the money saved for undergrad or medical school. (His 3 top choices are Columbia, Chicago or Yale). We are not so rich that we can provide for both. We, too, have other kids and expenses.</p>
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If the reason we send our kids to college is purely for education, then we could send all of them to community college or Phoenix University because they probably all use same text books.
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They do use some of the same textbooks, but the education is very different.<br>
Again, I send my kids to college for the education (as in educational experience), not for the job prospects.</p>
<p>Since there is not one bill fit all in this subject. I don't think there will be a "right " answer that will satisfy everyone. Except that you do what you think is right with your money and your child. </p>
<p>Within my means and if they gets in, I would send my kids to elite priviate colleges. Even if that mean I will push back 5 years of my retirement. The experiences of attending Harvard or Yale, I think, should be different than that of a State U.</p>
<p>I am also in the camp of sending your kids for an education not for employment. Otherwise, I think each top University will only have three schools - medicine, law, and business.</p>
<p>obsessed mom, I read and completely empathize with your dilemma of using the money now for undergrad or using it later for grad/prof school. We had the same choice three years ago (well, maybe we don't have enough to cover all of grad/prof school, but a lot of it). </p>
<p>Maybe it depends upon course of study, but the quality difference between studying engineering at son's first choice expensive school and the much more affordable state school was not that great. They are both ABET accredited, use many of the same text books, have nearly identical salary data for graduates, etc. He went to the state school and now can go wherever he wants for grad school. Perhaps there is more return on investment in the liberal arts areas? </p>
<p>Would it be possible for a person who valued the broad subject background of a core curriculum to duplicate that by careful course selection at a different college?</p>
<p>I just noticed anxiousmom's post, which pretty much contradicts my opinion on same texts = same material. H and I also want our kids to have prospects for good and interesting jobs and the freedom to choose them (after all, college is just a few years, but you will work for decades). So, I guess it's good that there is a college for everybody's tastes. :)</p>
<p>While I do not recommend going into significant debt for undergraduate education, and feel that public flagships can provide a very high quality education for students who are mature, independent and energetic, there are some differences between pricey privates and publics that become significant for some students. A big one for some of my son's friends has been the availability of some courses, particularly for freshmen. Course catalogs often list a wondrous array of course offerings, but that is no guarantee the class will be available. Over-enrollment is a common problem, but under-enrollment is a big factor also. Public univ. often will cancel classes with small enrollment, with little advance notice. My son is a freshman at a private university; one of his classes (a somewhat unusual foreign language) had only seven students enrolled. My husband, a prof. at a public flagship, commented that his university cancels any class that has so few students sign up. (He has lost the opportunity to teach several specialized seminar classes for that reason.) Meanwhile, a good friend of my son was unable to enroll in a required science class first semester at his public flagship due to over-enrollment, and it has thrown off the entire sequence of his program.</p>
<p>I still do not recommend huge debt, but I believe there are some real differences in the public/private experience. What I take issue with is the belief that a great experience is only available at a handful of big-name private universities. The options are not quite so limited as that.</p>
<p>Midmo, I have seen the exact same problems at some private schools that my kids attend. I don't think this is solely limited to public universities.</p>
<p>I sent my kids to public schools from grades K-12, but know of many who sent their kids to private schools. Why? So their employment prospects would be better? No. They sent their kids because they felt that it would be a better educational environment, and that their kids would receive a fuller, deeper education with more personal connections to good teachers. (It's true that we didn't have the money to pay for private k-12 school, but we also didn't feel the need, as classes at public schools were capped at 1:22 at elementary, and rarely exceeded 30 in high school. Also, public school teachers often had better credentials and continuing education than at private schools.) But we feel that at the university level, my kids' private university has profs who have time to mentor and coach and advise, flexibility to get into needed or desired classes, opportunities galore for research/travel abroad/work, and other interested and interesting students with strong work ethics. That's a better experience than our local flagship U. JMHO!</p>
Otherwise, I think each top University will only have three schools - medicine, law, and business.
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Well, not every kid aspiring to be a doctor, lawer, business man/woman. We have been trying to steer our kid in these directions since very young age, even we are not any of them ourselves. We knew our shortcomes and tired of being wory about lay-off when market is down, 'being plaied' by others. Yet, so far the mission is a total failure. He just don't see himself in any of these ocupations. A lot of his friends shared the same view with him.</p>
<p>^My niece tried all of those. She was in medical school then switched to law school. Worked as a lawyer for 3 years now she is in the business of hiring lawyers. She seemed to have found her niche. She is less stressed and more successful.</p>
<p>I’m bumping this thread with a link to my own because I think this is a very important conversation that still needs to be had. This thread existed the year I graduated HS and I really regret not listening to the advice.</p>
<p>I’m now $100k in debt with accumulated interest, from 2 years of art school (including RISD). I had to leave, and thank goodness, because getting into anymore debt for art would have been absolutely crazy. It already is…</p>
<p>I’m now pursuing nursing (3.9 gpa) and will “only” hopefully have about $30k more in interest and loans (mostly interest) by the time I graduate.</p>
<p>Tell me… will working as a nurse, and contributing around $2,000-2,500 a month towards my loans for as long as it takes to pay off this money, work out? Or am I destined to be miserable haha. I’m more than willing to accept responsibility for paying it off, realize it will be hard, but I will be so happy once it’s over. Such is life. I want to put any possible additional money towards it, maybe even up to $3k a month depending on starting salary and where I live (and how much I contribute to my boyfriend and I’s living expenses). I’d like to pay off my loans within 10 years and then start building a better life for us and hopefully kids, while living comfortably and definitely not beyond my means like I was led to believe was okay. Bleh.</p>
<p>I think it’s important for future college students to read this and understand not to make the same mistake I did. No art degree is worth that LOAN money!!</p>
<p>Mirror your post is very good, but you really should start a brand new thread about this topic. It has been discussed many times on many threads. But having another opinion isn’t a bad thing…But this thread is from 2007!</p>