<p>Well, countingdown, you must have one talented plumber.</p>
<p>My plumber actually lives in a very expensive neighborhood, but he’s fast. So, he charges more per hour, but it ends up costing less cuz he’s always done so fast.</p>
<p>Oh, but on google it looks so easy to replace a disposal!
I am wondering if I can install one of those ductless split AC units- after all, electricians…no, now I am joking. It’s not in the budget and I don’t mess with electricity.</p>
<p>And, that’s the point so many of us have been basing our comments on- during college years, the list of what we cannot afford grows. Personally, some of the cutbacks are rather refreshing- they remind me of my early days, post college, earning a pittance and having a blast. And, no, we don’t yet know what next year’s aid will be. </p>
<p>ps. My dishwasher broke. I read up on the obvious first things it could be and how to DIY. Decided I wasn’t savvy enough to use the recommended guages. The repair or replacement will wait. It’s ok.</p>
<p>lookingforward, the racks still work in a broken dishwasher, so you can wash your dishes by hand and then set them inside the dishwasher to dry. Then, later, when you are putting away the dishes, you can pretend that your dishwasher still works and you are unloading it. ;)</p>
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<li>Actually, my dishwasher still works but since I am living alone, I usually find it easier to just wash my plates & cookware after eating and setting them inside the dishwasher to dry. It’s actually easier because that way I generally use only the top rack and don’t have to bend down so much.</li>
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<p>Chris, you said:
So, if your daughter chooses to attend this school, that’s what it will cost. It’s you/her choice. I understand your frustration that it seems “only” those in the lower pay scale gets need-based college (aka something for nothing), but that’s how colleges decide their “awards”. You: $150K a year, and you paid off your mortgage. Colleges give need-based scholarship incentives to kids because they managed to “break away” from their peers; is your daughter in that kind of a situation? (I work with a mother of 5 who makes 11K a year. That’s less than the 15K in charity you give out.)</p>
<p>I know you don’t like loans. That’s why you paid off your mortgage. But no one is telling your daughter to go to this school. BTW, if she really is interested in aerospace engineering, think again. I know a kid who graduated last year in that field and still can’t find a job.</p>
<p>It seems that the only way to learn how FA really works is by either going through the process once yourself, or stumbling into the world of CC and reading about the experiences of other people. The OP did the obvious things: ran a FAFSA estimator (using the institutional methodology), and set a budget with his daughter. That put him way ahead of most people’s first-time-out-the-gate level of preparation. He contacted the school FA office, and looked at their average awards. Long-time CC readers may know that’s not sophisticated enough, but it sure is more sophisticated than many who stop right when they hear that the school will meet your need. </p>
<p>The problem is that it’s hard to find the warnings. The schools don’t tell you that they define your need, and that School A’s definition of need can be wildly different than School B’s. Most schools don’t have aid calculators; even if they do, they’re simplified versions of reality that don’t–can’t–include every contingency.</p>
<p>CountingDown, you are incredibly lucky to have your plumber within hailing distance!</p>
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<p>Yes, very good point. My assertion that people can choose what they earn (within reason) was in fact based on the widespread adoption of indoor plumbing, and not some silly general concept such as finding a need and filling it. Shucks, I completely missed the part about other valuable services going unfilled once everyone is a plumber. Hmmm, I wonder if it’s possible to fit that into my theory somehow…</p>
<p>By the way, are you Ivy-educated by any chance? At least, please tell me that you’re not a home schooler. :)</p>
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I doubt that. There is no way with the stated income & home equity that an IM calculation came out to $21K.</p>
<p>Here’s what I think happened. I don’t think OP relied on an online estimate – I think OP filled out the FAFSA and counted the 23 year old sibling in trade school as being in college. With $150K income & 2 kids in college, $21K would be ballpark. </p>
<p>According to the OP:
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<p>So it looks like the college isn’t even considering the home equity – they are looking at the FAFSA and not counting the sibling either because he has aged out or because the “trade school” is not considered a college for FAFSA purposes. Line 74 of the FAFSA has these instructions:
So if the “trade school” is not a postsecondary school eligible to participate in student aid programs, or if the current enrollment in the 19-month school means that the sibling won’t be attending at least half time during the coming school year – then the sibling shouldn’t be listed there. </p>
<p>Without the sibling, the FAFSA EFC would double – so that’s what the OP’s problem is. </p>
<p>If the school cost $60K, with an EFC of $44K and $8K worth of loans, then the OP’s daughter was offered a charitable gift (aka "grant’) of $8000. </p>
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<p>The problem is that I would expect a $150K/year earner to have a little more sophistication when it comes to money. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess that “average awards” are what go to people with “average” incomes. </p>
<p>Actually, I think the OP is lucky, because if an award had been based on the sibling’s current status, the sibling definitely would not have been counted in years #2-4 (age 24+, and presumably completing that 19-month program) – so the OP could have been looking at a situation of receiving more generous charitable gift this year (~$29K) and then having to face increase costs for the remaining 3 years. </p>
<p>Given that the sibling could not possibly qualify to reduce EFC in subsequent years, because of his age, the net “loss” to the OP in financial aid is only the first year grant. </p>
<p>If the trade school doesn’t qualify under FAFSA, the grant would never have materialized in any event, because the OP would not have been able to provide the d’s college with the required sibling enrollment verification docs. (That is something many parents may not know … but my experience was that no money came on account of the sibling until after the college had received those docs.)</p>
<p>calmom, I read the situation the same as you. I have more than one in college but my oldest student is 24yo, attending undergrad at a top uni but living at home. The other kids’ schools have all accepted this students as a student in college. I think the issue is the trade school is not being seen in the same light as a college. </p>
<p>As far as due diligence… it is very easy to think you’ve done it when you haven’t. I finished my degree fewer than 5 years before my oldest was applying to college so I thought I knew what I was doing. Ha! I happen to live in a state that awards merit to oos students. (I don’t know how common but I knew several people who were awarded it.) So I thought that was common. When my oldest’s applications were in, the only two acceptances were oos and no instate public offered the language kiddo wanted to study. My dad and loans helped us bridge that first year but the whole year was a massive struggle. Kiddo came home after one year and we regrouped-- eventually settled on a local top uni, loans and on-and-off working. </p>
<p>Oh, and I haven’t had a plumber, a dishwasher or a repairman in here for years. I don’t even have a working car right now; can’t afford the repairs.</p>
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I think that’s discretionary with the colleges as far as their own aid packages, but I believe that for FAFSA purposes he can’t be counted after the year that he turns 24. </p>
<p>My son was age 23 when my d. started college, and not a dependent for tax purposes and not living at home – but for FAFSA purposes he was a dependent. My d’s college calculated our FAFSA based on his being in college, but set its own grant level based on her alone. Then when they received the enrollment verification with COA info, they increased my d’s grant (but not to 50% of his COA or anything near that – I think they disregarded is personal living expenses and simply looked at his tuition.)</p>
<p>The next year, my son was still in college but age 24 – so he wasn’t considered at all. The financial aid people at my d’s college had told me that they would still consider any actual out-of-pocket money I was paying for my son’s tuition, but that I would have to document it. But my son managed to get a full tuition scholarship + stipend for his senior year… so there went any hope of extra financial aid. from d’s school. ;)</p>
<p>The simple fact is you make a very nice salary,and thought for some strange reason,a 60k education should cost you only 21k…If i were to run your numbers and came back with the result you did,i’d question what the heck did i input incorrectly…most people would realize that with that income,getting any significant FA would be a pipe dream</p>
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<p>Simple solution…if you only want the schools to consider the FAFSA, the apply to FAFSA ONLY schools. There are only about 300 schools that use the Profile. The VAST majority do not use it. Some use their own financial aid form in addition to the FAFSA, but even adding those in…the VAST, VAST majority of colleges use the FAFSA only.</p>
<p>However, buyer beware…those FAFSA only schools do not guarantee to meet full need, and in many cases, the only need based aid they give is the aid that is federally funded (which is BASED on the FAFSA). For a $50K plus school, that will not come close to covering the costs.</p>
<p>The OP has indicated he/she has left this thread…but perhaps the advice here will help others. Do your financial research FIRST especially if finances are going to be a significant player in the college selection process. Be honest and candid with your student about how finances will be used to determine their final choice. If there is a dollar limit per year that your family is comfortable paying, make sure your student understands they will need to choose within the family financial criteria.</p>
<p>It is true that many colleges will not accept trade schools as college. When you have multiples in college, the “college” part does have certain requirement. You can’t send your kid to any program and have the tuition counted as such. It has to meet certain certification standards. I personally thing that there should be equal consideration given to trade schools but I’ve found that it is not always the case. I know that my oldest went to a program during a break in his college years that just got certification to be considered a higher education institution. He was then eligible for federal and state funds to study there. Until the program got that certification, it was not considered a college or institute of higher learning for FAFSA or as another college. He took out his Stafford loans to pay for that stint which would not have been an option had the institution not gotten the recognition and certification it did just that year. So, yes, there are trade schools that are covered, but they have to be certified and meet certain standards to be recognized. We did not know about any of this and it was pure blind luck that he picked this program that was covered over a number in the same field that are not.</p>
<p>And just FYI…I’m not sure how the OP got an EFC of $21K for his student. With income alone, FAFSA efc on an income of $150,000 would be somewhere between $37K and $49K. Agreed with cpt…there ARE restrictions on the types of programs considered for siblings. The good news for the OP…that other program is 19 months…and not four years. </p>
<p>I do hope the OPs daughter has a good financially workable option for her college choice.</p>
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<p>roslyn, please site your confirmed source for this list. </p>
<p>Yes…high unreimbursed health care costs would be considered by most schools (if the school even chooses to consider appeals to their aid packages…some do not do this at all).</p>
<p>So far as I know, child care costs would ONLY be considered if they were of an extenuating type such as child care for a disabled sibling.</p>
<p>But consumer debt such as credit card debt is not considered unless it relates to unreimbursed medical expenses OR a job loss that required credit card use. The family would need to demonstrate that their credit card debt was NECESSARY not discretionary spending.</p>
<p>Tax and legal issues, again if these are related to unreimbursed medical expenses or job loss, that is one thing. BUT if the family has IRS issues and owes a ton of back taxes or has legal costs related to a lawsuit, there is no guarantee that the school would consider it (we were involved in a lengthy lawsuit and our hefty legal expenses were NOT considered AT ALL by either of our kids’ colleges). </p>
<p>Re: tax issues…if there are unresolved tax issues (lack of filing, payment of owed taxes) this could actually prevent the awarding of some federally funded aid. These issues need to be resolved.</p>
<p>Divorce…if the school requires the non-custodial parent Profile, there is little likelihood they will consider your divorce as a bargaining chip in the financial aid equation as they STILL expect the NCP to contribute.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that some schools will NOT consider an appeal of financial aid at all. Re: some of the above (medical expenses, etc) would be considered as special circumstances appeals. Some schools do NOT do any special circumstances considerations. The determination of whether or not to do these is at the discretion of the schools.</p>
<p>My free opinion to anyone requesting a financial aid appeal…make sure you have a plan B just in case the finances do not get adjusted in your favor enough to make it possible for your child to attend that school.</p>
<p>I think roslyn is spamming…</p>
<p>Some people in this thread may also have read the thread started by dumbparent (sorry I don’t know how to link to threads), also in the Financial Aid forum. On that thread, I learned about a site maintained by the U.S. Department of Education’s National Center for Education Statistics, called the IPEDS Data Center. Using this site, you can drill down and see what the average COA is for people at different income levels, among other things. I’m sure there are drawbacks and qualifications with regard to EXACTLY what these data can tell you. But for sure it’s more meaningful than the average financial award at this or that school.</p>
<p>Here’s some perspective. I got a $12k academic scholarship, and my Mom is a single parent making ~$8k a year. I’m still expected to come up with $10k a year. Planning on graduating in 3 years, but being $30k in debt sounds absolutely horrible. If I had 10% of your discretionary income, I would be absolutely ecstatic.</p>
<p>Thanks for the perspective. Many of us need it when we complain about what we have to pay.</p>
<p>*Here’s some perspective. I got a $12k academic scholarship, and my Mom is a single parent making ~$8k a year. I’m still expected to come up with $10k a year. Planning on graduating in 3 years, but being $30k in debt sounds absolutely horrible. *</p>
<p>I don’t understand- is your EFC higher than your mothers income?
That seems odd, unless you have summer earnings that are penalizing you. IN that case I would ask for a reevaluation- because it seems to be an admit/deny situation- being that they didn’t offer you enough aid to attend.</p>
<p>emaraldkity, most colleges do not meet full need. Most colleges gap. Xigbar’s award sounds like it is heavy on debt, but do-able from the college’s perspective. That is, the kid will probably be able to borrow the money required. $30K in debt is a lot, but far from impossible for a college grad to manage. </p>
<p>Most colleges are looking at enrollment management when they determine aid packages - trying to figure out the point where the minimum amount of aid they can offer intersects with the highest likelihood that the student will attend. In other words – somewhere behind Xigbar’s award there is a calculation that if he were offered a $6K grant he’d never come, but that the chances of attending with $12K aren’t that higher than with $8K. So they offer $8K, maybe after an “appeal” increase it to $9K or $10K – but they aren’t going to offer the $18K that would truly meet need because that isn’t their goal. Their goal is to maximize tuition revenues at their college without negatively impacting matriculation.</p>
<p>Xigbar has posted his college name in another thread. The college he is attending does not publish its financial aid figures – so probably does not meet need – but overall it is a very economical choice. It is a private college with tuition of about $13K annually – so full COA is probably around $20K. I would guess that it probably does not have much funding available for financial aid, given that all students benefit from the low tuition.</p>