Sick over "award" package

<p>If the school were RPI and the mandate is it has to be within 4 hours of home, that leaves plenty of great schools within that radius. So, my vote is it’s not RPI. Same for Tisch. I am wondering if we are talking about a school out west.</p>

<p>^ Somebody - not the OP - mentioned NY as the likely location.</p>

<p>With a few notable exceptions, the best schools (especially for engineering) in the West are public. So I don’t think that’s a likely scenario.</p>

<p>When I joined the CC community a bit over a year ago, I had the rosy view that the least of my concerns vis-a-vis my D’s college search would be financing her education. Someone in one of my earlier threads asked if I had any financial safeties on my list. I have to admit, the idea hadn’t crossed my mind. After running a few rough calculations, we decided to hedge our bets a bit. We still have a few eggs in the high-priced private school basket, but not all our eggs. I feel for the OP, to a point, but do wonder: What’s the point of having a list of 15 (!) schools if only one of them is truly acceptable? And I echo others in this thread who have urged the OP to consider the choice his or her family is making regarding charitable giving. It’s an admirable choice, to be sure. But the choice to continue giving at this level is, quite simply, incompatible with the desire to send the the child to her top choice school. Something’s gotta give!</p>

<p>I think the charitable giving is an outstanding thing to do. But it’s a choice, and like every other financial choice there are trade-offs. If it’s something that has a higher priority in the OP’s life than meeting college costs, that’s a completely valid choice. However, it’s not reasonable to think a college should fill that gap. It’s the donor’s choice, not the college’s choice.</p>

<p>I know a family that won’t pay for their daughter to attend a state school to which she cannot commute because they think it’s too expensive. They’ll only help her if she lives at home. On the other hand, they’re talking about dropping many thousands on a foreign adoption. It’s a generous gesture to spend that money to bring more children into their home, but clearly they’d rather spend the money there than on the college experience their daughter would like to have.</p>

<p>In the grand scheme of things, maybe it is a better thing, the adoption, on which to spend their money. But that doesn’t shift the burden to the college to award their daughter more aid.</p>

<p>Choices choices.</p>

<p>I haven’t read over this whole conversation, but I can say that your award package is actually pretty good. My Mom is single, makes less than $90K, and will be paying for my twin sister and I at the same time. My Dad refuses to contribute any money. My Mom works for the government and she expects to take at least a 5% pay cut this coming school year. She still owes half for her house, and she has a car payment for a crappy car that she is double upside down in. She also has a lot of students loans to pay back for herself. Colleges expect to take my sister’s and my entire UGMA accounts plus a $10K parental contribution (this is per kid so $20K), plus they expect work study and depending on the college between 3-8K per year in loans. This means we would be paying only $5K per year less than full price. </p>

<p>I just sent a deposit to the school that is the cheapest on my list because I have a full tuition scholarship there. I can’t afford to go elsewhere. I got accepted to Grinnell, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Case Western, and many others. I would love to go to one of those, but I can’t realistically afford it? What ARE you complaining about?</p>

<p>We are approaching a meltdown in our country because of the cost of higher education and the need for people who are educated to do modern jobs. I don’t think we are on a sustainable path </p>

<p>But the meltdown is . . . happening. It isn’t over yet. So those of us caught in the maelstrom have to accept that what was done a generation ago or even four years ago isn’t going to be what is happening to us and our students. </p>

<p>In our state (WA), the legislature is approving a 13% tuition hike for next fall. That is unlikely to be the end of it. No one’s paycheck is beefing up by 13% (well, no one that I know!). </p>

<p>For OP, she is in a bind. I am rooting for her but, at the same time, I find it hard to believe that only one college will fit her little bird. Or, if it does have one fabulous department, do they take transfers? Could D do a couple years at a state school and spend a summer and/or the last two years at SockItToMe U?</p>

<p>One recent financial whiz (sorry, no link) suggests that students take no more than the equivalent of one year’s salary in loans. So, a student planning to be a teacher at about $30K a year should not borrow more than $30K for ALL four years, total. </p>

<p>I’ll stick with my thought that a professional counselor be considered. This is a major life upheaval and it can help to get an outside professional to help navigate how parents and offspring communicate and set reasonable expectations from this point on.</p>

<p>I guess I’m just a little jealous. I think it’s great that you’re on here doing research for you daughter. I really wish someone had helped me with that. </p>

<p>I’ve been mad at my Mom recently, and I’ve given her a really hard time because she didn’t really do much planning. She didn’t really have time, and she made a lot of finaid mistakes like you did. Choosing and applying to colleges has been entirely left to me, and it was difficult to get her to even fill out the FAFSA and CSS on time because I know very few people who have actually done it before. Everyone in my family (since a few generations ago when people in my family started going to college) went to University of Nevada- Reno, so they don’t really understand the value of going to a LAC or to anywhere else. UNR is cutting tons of money and programs, so I’m forced to look out of state. Private and Public schools are virtually the same price for an out of stater, so I’ve just been looking all over. </p>

<p>You probably live in a good state that values higher ed and has good public schools. I envy you for that. I found great LACs, applied, and got in. Now I realize that I can’t go. I guess I kind of knew that already. I’m very interested in economics and I can put two and two together. I’m just disappointed because I’m a planner type, and I get excited when I read the little info packets I get in the mail about these schools. Also, reading about the internships and the study abroad has made college into a dream. A few months ago, I was calling these schools “a ticket” because I felt like maybe they would be a ticket out of my city and perhaps even up a social class level. Yeah these prestigious schools are often only “a ticket” to debt, but I wasn’t thinking about that kind of “ticket” as much. </p>

<p>Reading this whole conversation has taught me not to be so hard on my Mom. She could have done more research, but she didn’t really know that was necessary. I will stop giving her a hard time. I bet she feels just like you do. She wants to see my sister and I happy, and she wants us to go to a place that has $800,000 per student endowment. UNR only has $9K per student endowment, but luckily my planning has paid off and I don’t have to go there. I got a full tuition scholarship to a pretty nice school, and I think I can be happy there. Maybe, your daughter has an option like this? </p>

<p>Anyways, thanks for this. I have learned a lot here about how the other side (parents) are viewing this decision.</p>

<p>Eulodon, I understand how frustrated you must feel right now – but it sounds like your mom is doing the best she can. From what you say, she’s not getting help from your dad – and it must be pretty overwhelming for her to face the prospect of putting two kids through college at once, especially when facing a pay cut. If it were only one kid, then maybe she could bit the bullet and take on a little extra – but it sounds to me like she’s being hit with a double whammy, because all of those private colleges are probably expecting a chunk of money to be coming from your dad – and as you say, he’s not contributing a dime. It sounds like you do have a good option with the scholarship you have from a reputable small private college – it’s not your dream school, but it looks like it will provide you with a better education, or at least smaller classes and more personalized attention, than your in-state public option. </p>

<p>I think the OP in this thread is in a very different situation. No mortgage, $150K annual income, plenty of extra to give away to charity. From what you say and have posted in this thread and others, I honestly don’t see what more your mom could do for you. </p>

<p>So please don’t give her a hard time – it is really tough being a single mom, and if your mom is anything like me, she probably hasn’t told you half of the story of the burdens she has faced trying to keep things together over the years. She probably comes home from work exhausted – and the whole college search / financial aid thing was probably too overwhelming for her. It’s pretty much impossible for a single parent to figure out anyway – most colleges are not at all forthcoming about how they treat NCP income & assets.</p>

<p>eloudon- Your mom is stuck. The schools aren’t expecting your mom to pay for your and your sister’s education, they are expecting your parents to pay. If your dad refuses she has no way to make his portion on the college bills magically appear. Reading the OP’s “plight” must make you frustrated indeed.</p>

<p>Olymom hit the nail on the head. We are in the middle of an educational cost meltdown here. We saw it in England, with kids rioting in the streets; don’t think we are too far away from that. These schools keep dialing in 5% to 7% yearly pricing increases where our incomes are not nearly on that rate. This is probably a discussion for another thread.</p>

<p>Thanks again for all your comments. By the way, I obfuscated some of the facts here because I really don’t want to disclose the name of the college or give a hint of who I am.</p>

<p>Not sure what we are going to do, but the clock is ticking so we will need to figure something out, soon.</p>

<p>-C</p>

<p>There aren’t that many schools with a price tag of about 60k, but Sarah Lawrence (NY) does come to mind. </p>

<p>In “Paying for College Without Going Broke” Kal Chany, Princeton Review, advises parents to back off on the charitable contributions during the college years, if you are a big giver, because the financial aid office will view that as $ that can pay for college.</p>

<p>Ditto what 'rentof2 said. And eloudon123: You sound like a terrific person with a good head on your shoulders and an admirable sense of perspective. Good luck to you.</p>

<p>In hindsight OP could have done many things differently. The here and now is what does OP and her child do? Either take the loans and pay the price later, or go to a less desirable institution. As has been pointed out many times in CC, most students who go to choice B, often do not end up differently as long as they are willing to work hard.</p>

<p>My 2 -c- is the loans are not worth it, go with plan B.</p>

<p>Re post #71 – Sarah Lawrence doesn’t offer any sort of specialized major that can’t be obtained anywhere else. It offers a very special educational approach, and it has a particularly strong writing program – but it is still a generalized liberal arts program. </p>

<p>It is possible that a very specialized program could have extra costs tacked on over and beyond the basic tuition charged to most students. </p>

<p>As to the OP – s/he should pay whatever it is worth to them to their family for their d’s education. The problem clearly is NOT financial, but a matter of their family’s priorities.</p>

<p>It is fine for them to set their own priorities however they want. It is admirable that they choose to deny themselves in some way in order to give to others… though not so much if they adopt a rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul approach, expecting someone else’s charity to subsidize their own “giving”. But they haven’t – they have just griped about the fact that most private colleges do not give need based aid to families whose incomes put them in the top 8%. </p>

<p>Certainly they have the right to their opinion that private colleges are just too darn expensive these days. So is health care. So is the cost of housing in many states. That is simply a fact of life. They don’t have to pay for a more pricey option if they don’t want to – there are plenty of less costly public alternatives for them. But if they are unwilling to take on debt or give up their own discretionary spending, then they are simply making a choice as to how to spend their money; they don’t need anyone’s help.</p>

<p>Isn’t asking for financial aid asking for charity?</p>

<p>My kids have been taught from a very young age to donate a portion of their money to charity on a regular basis. However at the age of about 15 that money needs to start being put aside for college. Volunteer work is widely available that just requires time and not money. Getting a good education and being able to contribute to society is just as important as a dollar contribution to a charity.</p>

<p>Gee, I wish I had read and paid attention to this thread six months ago. </p>

<p>My son applied to six schools; he plans on majoring in music composition. WE spent a fair amout of time looking at options and the six he applied to basiclly broke down into the expensive, the middle range, and the affordable with relatively little loans needed over four years.</p>

<p>He got accepted quickly at his one safety school, but after visiting there and visiting other schools, he really didn’t want that as an option anymore. A couple of the pricier private schools also dropped off his radar after he had applied. </p>

<p>It came down to two – the most expensive option, a private out of state school, where he is wait-listed. And a public school from a neighboring state (so, out of state tuition).</p>

<p>In the meantime, he received a modest amount of scholarships from his safety school, which didn’t budge his desire NOT to go there.</p>

<p>And today we got the “award” letter from the out of state school . . . which was basically a list of loans he or we can take out. In other words, no award – just an invitation to go into debt.</p>

<p>So, I’m just frustrated and disheartened today. He’s worked really hard for four years and is passionate about music. I’m going to appeal to the out-of-state school for SOMETHING . . . but also make a last ditch appeal to my son about considering the in-state school that is the only one that has offered him money to attend.</p>

<p>But if I could wind the tape back to September 2010, I would have approached this all differently. I listened too much to the rosy side of financial aid presentations and paid less attention to the realities of our family’s financial situation and the true cost of school. If I had to do it over, I would still have encouraged him to apply to the private schools, in the hope that one of them would provide a generous package. But I also would have encouraged a look at more than one safety school.</p>

<p>ptc wrote: So, I’m just frustrated and disheartened today. He’s worked really hard for four years and is passionate about music.</p>

<p>It is not too late to simply sit your son down and tell him that after the reality check, you have decided you have X amount of dollars to spend on his college career and he has to choose based on what he can afford. Your contribution weighs heavily on what he can actually afford. </p>

<p>(Truth be told, you putting a limit on your contribution may almost dictate where he can attend based on financial aid offers–but he has options of community college followed by transfer, a gap year and reapply to different schools, etc. I recently met a man originally from a foreign country who worked fulltime while attending college because that was the only way he could pay for college… time to count our blessings… the local/instate schools are probably better than many college situations around the world.)</p>

<p>Can you afford the 4 years of payments that would be needed? Can you do it and still have your retirement and emergency savings in tact? Are there other children that need to go to college or other looming debts that need addressing? If these or other financial issues are a problem, while it is a bit late in the process, it is still early enough to change course. </p>

<p>Realize also that “music composition” usually does not lead to a steady or high-paying job after graduation. It is great your son has a talent and a passion–but unless you can truly afford to send him to the higher priced schools, you might want to reconsider.</p>

<p>In other words, I don’t understand why <em>you</em> are pleading with your son to not wipe out your bank account. Instead, why not set a financial upper limit and have your son do the hard work of creating his life path/college career on a realistic budget.</p>

<p>ptc -</p>

<p>If after having the discussion suggested by annikasorrensen, your son still will only consider the two currently unaffordable options, it is perfectly fine for you to tell him that he will need to take a Gap Year and reapply at a wider list for Fall 2012. During that time, he could work on improving himself as a candidate for those talent-based scholarships that exist in his field. I know you don’t want to have to go through all of it again, but if the only options left on the table are too expensive for your family, it is better to step back, reassess his list, and reapply.</p>

<p>*I’m going to appeal to the out-of-state school for SOMETHING . . . *</p>

<p>You were very poorly advised. The only OOS publics that are really known for giving need-based aid to OOS students are UVA and UNC-CH. </p>

<p>OOS publics have so little aid to give, that they pretty much have to reserve it for instate students. </p>

<p>OOS publics generally expect OOS students to pay the high OOS costs (that’s why they charge those OOS costs). If they were just going to cover them with need-based aid, why would they bother to charge the cost??? That said, there are some OOS publics that note on their scholarship pages that they do give merit scholarships to high-stats OOS students. It doesn’t sound like your son considered those schools.</p>

<p>*but also make a last ditch appeal to my son about considering the in-state school that is the only one that has offered him money to attend.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>You don’t have to “appeal”…that makes it sound like he’s in the driver’s seat and you have to agree to whatever he decides. it’s your money. And, since he was the one applying, it was his responsibility to make sure he applied to affordable schools that he LIKED.</p>

<p>What is his safety school? Why doesn’t he like it?</p>

<p>I would give him a choice…go to the safety school or take a gap year and reapply. If he takes the gap year, then he can’t take any classes anywhere…otherwise he’ll lose his incoming frosh status (best for aid and merit). </p>

<p>What are his stats?</p>

<p>What is your EFC?</p>

<p>You don’t have to “appeal”…that makes it sound like he’s in the driver’s seat and you have to agree to whatever he decides. it’s your money. And, since he was the one applying, it was his responsibility to make sure he applied to affordable schools that he LIKED</p>

<p>Agree
also depending on state, neighboring states may have reciprocal agreements for _ over instate tuition for some of their state universities. So potentially may have other choices for school- if he takes a gap year to get his ducks in a row ( also look at rolling admissions)</p>