Sick over "award" package

<p>MisterK - I really am not following your argument on this thread at all.</p>

<p>He’s not making a cogent argument, Oldfort. He is trying to make the political point against taxes and wealth redistribution and pro-hard work, using an OP who WANTS to benefit from redistribution. It’s a one size fits all argument, but it has nothing to do with the OPs actual point. So, it’s impossible to make sense out of it.</p>

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<p>I agree completely, been saying the same thing. The fortunate folks are the ones who find what they really want in life.</p>

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I haven’t said anything of the sort. I’m more focused on the treatment that he received here for being a successful hard worker. Maybe you confused me with someone else?</p>

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<p>Since we agree, I’m confused.</p>

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<p>I can’t imagine where this is coming from …</p>

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<p>Ahh…should petition to get the political forum opened again.</p>

<p>But, we don’t agree, Mr. K.</p>

<p>OP believes that the schools should “redistribute” more “equitably.” But, most of us who are here understand that you have to make choices when your kid is in school. So, if you have to give up certain elements of your lifestyle during that time, so be it. Or, if you do not want to do that, you have to give up certain educational opportunities. It is simply not the job of the school or the taxpayer to fund someone else’s choices. </p>

<p>Look, I think there are lot of really awful things going on in the educational financial situation right now, the offering of loans as finaid, is one I think is questionable ethically. I think the cost of an education is overpriced right now, too. But, I do not believe that when colleges choose to give financial aid to the truly financially disadvantated that that is the place where they are behaving in an unethical fashion. At all.</p>

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I just hate watching every full-pay worker who shows up here looking for information being used for target practice. It seemed worthwhile to defend this guy, who actually seems to be an admirable gentleman. It’s not as if he showed up here trying to hide his assets or cheat the system.</p>

<p>@poetgrl - I haven’t posted about the redistribution. Again, you have me confused with somebody else. My point is that I just don’t like seeing folks use this man for target practice.</p>

<p>I guess you are right. </p>

<p>I remember my first post on CC. I made some joke about wait lists. I was skewered.</p>

<p>Everyone gets skewered on CC. </p>

<p>I wish my first post had been: “Hi, I"m new here.” :D</p>

<p>Yes, I’ve mixed you up with the OP. He is the one bemoaning the redistribution process. Sorry bout that.</p>

<p>there’s nothing to stop an educated adult from going out and earning at this level. Nothing. But, yes there is: the economy. To try to pretend otherwise is indefensible.</p>

<p>When there is a thread where the OP says: I earn more than most in this country and I want to pay less for my kid’s “dream college” than they expect of me and my current expenses take most of my income and I’m already sacrificing AND, btw, I didn’t do a lot of research about aid, but I made a few assumptions, and- even though my EFC was high- never spoke with my kid about our financial preferences (and there are plentyof these threads): * there is always a heavy reaction.*</p>

<p>This thread has several posters who are highly knowledgeable about finaid. I only know what I know. But, I have seen hundreds of apps and I can tell you with absolute certainty: there are plenty of superior kids applying to superior colleges, whose parents work two jobs apiece, sacrifice, still find ways to give to society…and don’t make 150k.</p>

<p>The wise family researches finaid, goes into a cold sweat when they see an unaffordable EFC and has a frank talk with the kid. That’s all before she applies. The wise parents qualify her choices and their position beforehand.</p>

<p>Here, we’re trying to shut the barn door after the cows have gone. Every suggestion is shot down. The choice is OP’s.</p>

<p>poetgrl - No problem, because I did agree with you completely, and I respect that you and your husband have found what you wanted to do in life - my definition of “fortunate.”</p>

<p>kelsmom -
One last thing for kelsmom (she said “ROFL” regarding choosing to make $150k). If you would like to clear $150k easily after a few years of training, then I can help get you there. But you need to be willing to be a plumber.</p>

<p>I’m not saying that being a plumber is the right choice for you, and nobody really likes walking around in backed up basements (do they?). But are quality plumbers really “lucky” or “fortunate” to pick up their yearly $150k (or much more)? Or did they just make a choice that others aren’t willing to make? </p>

<p>Sure, there can be health issues and other disasters. But life really isn’t a compete lottery. </p>

<p>Lookingforward: Even in a bad economy, people will pay when their basement backs up. Wouldn’t you?</p>

<p>OK, gotta run.</p>

<p>OP does seem like a nice guy, just like millions other people. I think everyone was very sympathetic until he said that charitable giving is not negotiable (at least that’s how many of us read it). It is admirable that he feel it is important, but to me it is no different than someone who wants to spend the money on vacation, car, or a hobby. They are all personal choices, as many posters have said, it is not a college’s responsibility in subsidizing our personal choices.</p>

<p>In many of my other posts before, I have repeatedly said that the government and colleges should help out students with family income between 120-250K, especially around high cost living areas. This is a segment of population we are not seeing much in top tier schools. This group of kids are going to lower tier private schools (merit scholarship) or state schools. Not that there is anything wrong with those schools, but I think we could benefit a lot by having more of those students going to top tier schools. This group of students probably are better adjusted emotionally than kids from either extreme, and they are probably product of highly educated (intelligent) parents.</p>

<p>I feel for OP. He is in a difficult position, not poor enough to get aid, and not rich enough to afford full pay.</p>

<p>Perhaps we need a screening system that quickly links new posts with the OPs basic issue of “I can’t believe this aid package. Was I dumb or are they evil?” into one giant thread that includes basic financial aid information. The question is essentially the same every time, and the advice is essentially the same every time. The only thing that changes much is the tone of the commentary.</p>

<p>Like to “Race” FAQ, only for parents!</p>

<p>I could have been a full pay parent if I had not done my homework and limited my daughter’s search.</p>

<p>I educated myself and was prepared for the reality of college costs. It took a lot of on-line searching and a lot of CC reading to get the info I needed, but it was out there and available to all who seek it.</p>

<p>The problem is that many people don’t want to hear the truth or learn the truth. They have their head in the sand.</p>

<p>Cliche aside, I feel sometimes that I walk around my upper middle class neighborhood like Chicken Little, declaring that the sky is falling and NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR IT!</p>

<p>My older D was class of 2008. I was totally naive when I started the process. We first visited Tufts and Vassar and, of course, my D fell in love with both. I hadn’t figured my EFC–barely knew what it was. I confess–when I figured it out, for a few minutes I was pleased with the results–thinking it meant that I owed $79K for all 4 years!</p>

<p>Fast forward–I learned quick! I knew that merit aid schools were our only option for saving any money. I researched all the viable options and was realistic about what the highest possible merit aid was that D could reasonably win. And you know what! No surprises! She got into every school and got the $ we had hoped for! It wasn’t magic! Yes, we were lucky that there were no real snafus, but basically if a school said that their highest merit aid was $19.5 K and D was at /above the 75th percentile, that 's what she rec’d. Certainly not a penny more.</p>

<p>So now, spring break week I am running into friends and acquaintances who are starting the process. And I try to warn them to do research. And I tell them not to just listen to what people say they rec’d in aid and assume it is merit aid. And I tell them that schools are cuttting back and eliminating true merit aid! And there they go off to any and all colleges “just to look.” Setting their kids up for disappointment. Then they act surprised when they get ZERO aid or aid that doesn’t come close to the amount they hoped for.</p>

<p>Oh well, I tried!</p>

<p>Poetgirl, you wrote: (I don’t know how to copy others’ posts with the gray background)</p>

<p>“But, most of us who are here understand that you have to make choices when your kid is in school. So, if you have to give up certain elements of your lifestyle during that time, so be it. Or, if you do not want to do that, you have to give up certain educational opportunities”</p>

<p>But the OP DID give up certain elements of his (or her) lifestyle. He has indicated that he does not live extravagantly, has saved for college, etc. But despite living frugally, he still DOES have to give up certain educational opportunities. Seems like a double-whammy to me: you don’t get to live it up and spend freely and yet you still get slapped with with a 60K tuition bill. I don’t know, but to me it doesn’t seem unreasonable to see this situation as frustrating and unfair. But he’s not allowed to express this frustration on this board without being called a whiner.</p>

<p>Then you say:</p>

<p>“It is simply not the job of the school or the taxpayer to fund someone else’s choices.”</p>

<p>But schools and taxpayers fund other people’s choices all the time. If the parents decide to enter professions that they love but that don’t pay well, then they will qualify for more aid than someone who chose a more practical field that will pay more bills. Similarly, if one decides to be a stay-at-home mom or chooses to work part-time, then again the family income will be much lower and the school or the taxpayer will subsidize this family’s choice. So it’s OK to subsidize some choices but not others?</p>

<p>(And I too find it irritating to call the OP “fortunate” for choosing to work 75 hours per week when others choose to work much less. It’s not luck and fortune that earns him that money) Again, choices. We all make them. But some of us have our choices subsidized and others don’t.</p>

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<p>Which thread is that? My EFC was calculated at $21K. The school ignored FAFSA and said they think I should be able to pay $44K. The path from their $60K bill down to $44K had $8K of student loans in it. Give me a break.</p>

<p>I have another kid going to a $47K 19-month trade school. The college threw that out because he’s 23 years old, and should be able to cover that himself. Even though he’s learning disabled, makes $10K per year and lives under my roof, on my dime.</p>

<p>So yeah, you are right – I should have gotten to the point of the $21K EFC and then told my daughter “in this bizarre world where logic is cast aside in favor of hitting yearly revenue budget numbers – forget about our chance of getting any help on this – you need to go to a state school instead of the school you worked your a** off for four years and got through a 25% acceptance rate.”</p>

<p>I would have been a much better parent, right?</p>

<p>@lookingforward: thank you for a reasoned and reasonable response (#148); very well put.</p>

<p>MisterK before you entice everyone to go out an become plumbers so they can earn $150,000 per year I think you had better do some research.</p>

<p>I come from a long line of plumbers and the average salary is no where near $150,000—it’s more like $50,000 per year which is still a good living. It also is a long process to become a master plumber. After your apprenticeship you have another 4-5 years as a journeyman and then if you pass your test you can be a master plumber. Though if someone wants to do the work it’s a pretty secure job. Actually, my grandfather told all of his kids to become electricians–it’s a lot cleaner and the tools aren’t as heavy.</p>

<p>LOL, Susgeek. </p>

<p>Once again, I want to thank those who post their FA situations so that all of us can learn. </p>

<p>As someone said on one of the other “high EFC” threads, some posters are merely looking for some affordability at private institutions or need some comfort when they find out that the glossy pamphlet about affordability wasn’t exactly telling the truth. It is a reality that college costs have way, way, way outpaced income increases in this country, and I don’t think we want to be pricing those who may be in the income donut hole (making too much for any aid, but maybe not enough to be able to find enough for private education without sacrificing retirement or a second child’s college options) out of that market. And I’m not saying that the OP is one of those in the donut hole; I’m just commenting on some of the generalizations made in this thread. </p>

<p>While a state flagship or honors college may be the perfect solution for one child, it may not be the right solution for another child. For some kids, the smaller LAC might be just the place that gives their wings, and we should try to give those type of kids that option. Other kids may thrive at a large state institution where they have more options. </p>

<p>The system does have some unfairness built into it, and savvy people have been able to figure out ways around it. For instance:
– FAFSA-only school families paying off their homes and adding to their retirement and not getting penalized for it, but profile families feeling the sting as well as the wrath of commenters on this board. (It’s also worth noting that in this economy, many people are contract workers who make a good wage on paper, but don’t qualify for any retirement benefits or even health benefits. Yet, they are expected to come up with more for college than those who will get a payout to help them through retirement – something not taken into account on FAFSA.)
– A mom quitting her job a couple of years before college-app time knowing that would put her kid in better financial status than those double-earning families.
– The fact that FAFSA doesn’t take into account the non-custodial parent’s income (even when the child might be getting help from the non-custodial parent, but it’s not being reported). </p>

<p>There are many more examples of the loopholes, but as one poster wrote, folks don’t jump on those folks with quite the harshness I see in some of these threads. I applaud the profile system for at least looking at home equity, retirement and non-custodial parent income and would advocate FAFSA doing the same. </p>

<p>Someone also mentioned that those with six-figure incomes shouldn’t be allowed loans. But what if that very low six-figure income is a combination of both wage earners in the family and mom only recently went back to work to able to fund a child’s college education and therefore the family hasn’t been able to save what they should for college? Do we want to stop them from making a choice that they are willing to sacrifice for? </p>

<p>Once again, I’m grateful for CC and these threads and these debates. It’s been really eye-opening. :)</p>

<p>What the heck with all of this “high EFC” thread nonsense?</p>

<p>People are reading the parts of this discussion they want to read and ignoring the facts.</p>

<p>FAFSA calculated an EFC of $21K. At that point I told my daughter go ahead and apply, even if we have to pay up to $35K (66% MORE) out of pocket we can afford it.</p>

<p>The school came back with an EFC of $44K.</p>

<p>So, again…aside from NOT BEING A MIND READER OR HAVING A TIME MACHINE AT MY DISPOSAL - what should I have done differently?</p>

<p>Here’s what I always wonder. Though I live in a middle class community in California, and grew up in a "ghetto " in New York, I never met ANYBODY, who assumed there was some way to pay for college, other than savings, or joining the military, until I came to CC. Why would that be?</p>

<p>“What the heck with all of this “high EFC” thread nonsense?”</p>

<p>Just a word to the wise. It’s my PC way of saying those who some others see as making too much to complain. Details change, but the theme is the same.</p>

<p>"what should I have done differently? "</p>

<p>Don’t post your income if it’s over about $85k (jk!)</p>