<p>Of course nothings official till you sign the paper. But if a school pulls an offer to a verballed athlete scout rivals and espn will for sure have articles on it. And that ruins their rep and the schools rep (these offers are just like likely letters…written from the school). It’d be like not accepting after a likely letter. The verbal part of this are the athletes, the offers are written and sent to the student through their coach or to them if it’s after junior year.</p>
<p>…but ya. Whether it’s smart to verbal early is a different question. Once u verbal you guaranteed to go really. If u wait it out and the school pulls the offer, it’s your fault. You only verbal early if you love the school. Many of the top recruits wait and look over all their offers before deciding on national tv during signing day on espn or the all American game on espn</p>
<p>Thanks for responding, Cardinal- you’re so right, I only understand the Ivy-DIII part of this picture, which is why I keep asking questions!</p>
<p>My impression of NCAA is that on some level they are trying to protect young athletes, with all these recruiting rules. To me, early “commitments” with no strings, except, as you say, possible loss of credibility with future recruits, doesn’t really protect athletes very well. </p>
<p>I guess my basic question is how is it that the non Ivy DIs seem to court players starting at a very young age, with no NCAA intervention? I understand admissions at many DIs do not stand in the way of these recruits, as they will at the Ivies and DIIIs. Just trying to understand. The LOI and LLs are on a strict timeline. The verbals seem to be flying below the NCAA radar…</p>
<p>Here’s a repost of an article I read here a few months ago
[Early</a> courtship ends badly for Duke recruit - CharlotteObserver.com](<a href=“http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2009/11/15/1056313/early-courtship-ends-badly-for.html]Early”>http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2009/11/15/1056313/early-courtship-ends-badly-for.html)</p>
<p>Verbals usually end well, but depend upon the integrity of both the coach and athlete.</p>
<p>^^ exactly.</p>
<p>Riverrunner, I think the main way this goes under radar is because these students don’t talk to the coaches. There club coach or school coach does all the communicating. The coach usually acts as a middle man until it’s under NCAA rule to talk to the kid. Or they get the kid out to the camp, where they are allowed to communicate with the kids.</p>
<p>It may seem like the D1 coaches are getting around the rules, but they aren’t. Yes, I’ve seen the rules “bent” a few times, but all D1 coaches we dealt with played by the rules. Let’s face it, they have a very difficult job. If they overtly break the rules, they can lose their jobs, careers, and school reputation.</p>
<p>Remember during this process you can have unlimited number of unofficial visits to the school and and make telephone call to the coach during sophomore, junior and senior years for D1. I reference pages 18 -20 for the 2009-2010 NCAA Guide for College Bound Athlete. This available for download at ncca.org -> legistlation and governance -> eligibility and recruiting. Everything is explained there, as when as definitions and timetables such as “quiet periods”. Good reading!</p>
<p>fenwaysouth</p>
<p>re the article on the Duke recruit, that’s why you choose the school and not the sport.</p>
<p>coach 1st then school. i just don’t see the logic in choosing the school over the coach.</p>
<p>40 hours a week, 10 months out of the year with your college team and coach…seems to me you better like your coach.</p>
<p>people choose schools all the time for an academic focus (good profs). why not choose a school for the coach and team.</p>
<p>pacheight,</p>
<p>IMO it all depends on goals and philosphy. Neither is right or wrong, it is just a matter of what is most important to the student/athlete and parents. I can see reasons for both as only you and your son/daughter know your recruiting journey. My son is very fortunate to have selected his first choice for both school and coach. Even if that was not the case for us, what is right for us may not be right for others.</p>
<p>fenwaysouth</p>
<p>pacheight,
can injuries impact the athlete? I say pick the school first… I know of a great baseball player who was recruited… loved the coach… turned out the coach left over the summer before his freshman arrival… so much for choosing the coach!! Kid lasted 1 yr there… is now at his 4th and final school… ugly and discouraging experience overall… so, buyer beware if you choose coach first… and find yourself at a school without the coach… my own child was actively recruited by a great coach at one school, under strong consideration within our family… that coach also retired over the summer… not sure if it was their choice to retire or if the school made them an offer they couldn’t refuse… but awareness of where the coach is in their own career merits understanding…</p>
<p>if your kid has olympic aspirations, then I understand that the coach selection might rule… but, if you are not pursuing professional athletics, then I still think pick the school first… your child may be so talented athletically, that all of her schools are fabulous and so the coach might be the trump card…</p>
<p>the athletes I know best are pursuing the best coaches and the best teams in the country. They are not picking schools for academics they are choosing colleges for the coaches and teams…top athletes picking top teams. fortunately many of the best teams are also at the best academic schools (top 30).</p>
<p>and I know many not so top athletes who love their sport so they choose mid tier schools so they can play, even though they’ve been accepted to much higher ranked academic institution…that they couldn’t play for because they’re not good enough.</p>
<p>I believe athletes are serving their needs and their human development best, by pursuing their passion for their sport first. </p>
<p>those who don’t have this attitude may not fall under the definition I use for “athlete”</p>
<p>Your definition of “athlete” must be quite narrow. I personally know several olympic athletes. One is a silver medalist triathlete, one missed a swimming bronze by 1/100 of a second, world record holder and another was a gold medalist diver. All three gave the same advice to us and my daughter: choose the school that is the best for you academically. </p>
<p>The number of collegiate athletes who actually go on to make their living as a professional athlete is about 1%. And those that do turn pro can expect careers of limited duration. So, if an athlete is in that 1%, choosing a school for the coach might be a wise chosice. But for the other 99%, I would think the best school would be the one tha fits best in all categories, academic, athletic and financial.</p>
<p>I do not think there is a one-size-fits-all principle in deciding whether academics or athletics is the priority. It depends on the sport, the student/athlete, a familys finances, and possible career aspirations (and lots of other variables).</p>
<p>For some sports, there is no real financial future beyond college. For others, there is definitely a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow the probability of finding the gold may be pretty low, but there is the pot of gold waiting.</p>
<p>For some student/athletes, academics have never been, nor ever will be, a priority; or, perhaps, are not achievable (for many reasons). So, for example, take a boy who has dreamt all his life for a chance to play professional baseball; he has followed up on his dream by committing his hours of time to learn and develop his game; he has not taken APs; he does not test off the charts on the SATs. If Baseball U, which has a history of getting players drafted (like some schools have a history of getting students into medical school), wants this kid, and the kid, wants Baseball U, it looks like a match made in heaven! Yes, the chances of a long professional baseball career culminating in the Majors are remote; but so are the chances of winning the Nobel Prize for Chemistry if you are a chemist!</p>
<p>For some, the school with the best perceived academics is financially out of reach (50k a year in post tax $$ is pretty steep for the middle class). Here, financial reality may mean choosing a state school over the (perceived) more rigorous LAC (although school is what a student makes of it; not the other way around).</p>
<p>For some, a certain major (lets say engineering or science-based) is inconsistent with the demands of many D1 power sports. This is a tough area. Coaches will say anything to get the student/athlete to commit (well allow him to miss practice to take those labs; we are really committed to academically supporting Johnny take particle physics, etc.). Here is where the parents need to step in. Look at the rosters; forget the freshman and sophomores; look only at the juniors and seniors. Are those the majors your S/D is interested in? I was at a recent Rice University baseball game. A player told me that about four players (out of 35) were engineering majors at an engineering school! This indicates the difficulty taking a particular field of study while competing in D1 athletics. A very difficult compromise may make the student/athlete either realize that the science/engineering path will be sacrificed; or the athletic path is compromised again one-size-does-not-fit all; there is no right blanket principle for everyone.</p>
<p>So, it is all about compromising something; what that something is is different to every student/athlete.</p>
<p>It is true that coaches come and coaches go. But some coaches have been at a school for decades; and some coaches have a track history of getting their athletes to the professional level. The student/athlete and his/her family need to do their research, make an educated guess on the coachs longevity, and live with the consequences. (Its a free market economy and coaches move, but you cannot be paralyzed by the possibility.) </p>
<p>In short, do as much due diligence as possible on the prospective school, coach, and sport; look deep inside the student/athlete for insight and perspective about dreams and ambitions (in the sport and in life). And make the leap of faith based upon a collaborative family effort. It generally works out for the best.</p>
<p>^^good thoughts!</p>
<p>one area I differ with is the outcome focus of both posts above. the idea that if your not going to go to the olympics, or make money at it, or go pro (the 1%) then you should weigh other attributes such as academics and future related careers in your college selection.</p>
<p>I don’t know, I think I’d rather advise my kid to pursue her athletic dreams…and not start throttling things back because of future concerns (aka careers). Why should we be focusing on the future, what about the now?</p>
<p>plus how many people are really making money in a career that has anything to do with their major in college? And for licensed professions that’s all grad school anyway. My focus on the sport doesn’t mean I don’t think the kid shouldn’t work hard in school, get good grades, so there will be “other” future opportunities.</p>
<p>i like what stemit said about “dreams”. I think we should let our kids pursue their athletic dreams to the fullest…I think there’s quite an education in that pursuit.</p>
<p>I think in the end it comes down for most to compromise. Can you tolerate the academic environment at the college of your favorite team/coach. Conversely, can you tolerate the coach/team at your top academic college pick. Most people are not gifted academically or athletically and therefore won’t be turning pro or going to the Olympics. Nor will they win the Nobel or Pulitzer. I love living in the now without regard for the future. Only problem is, there are a lot of people who float through life with that frame of mind, and grad school is not a viable option for a great many. “Dreams” only work when the dream involves a huge prize at the end . . . like a gold medal. When the dream will only lead to a BA in an useless degree from a mediocre school, that dream evaporates quickly. Once again, athletes have to make compromises. If they are serious about their future, they will choose majors that ultimately lead to successful careers. . . . just like all other college students should be doing.</p>
<p>Since a marriage analogy was put forth earlier, let’s say this decision is like choosing a spouse. Whether the person is physically attractive to you definitely matters, but you have to keep in mind the fact that looks are fleeting. Intellectual compatability is important, but frankly the bulk of your everyday life together will not revolve around analyzing poetry so there’s some room for compromise there. Financial security and gainful employment are very nice and so you might not want to marry a lazy couch potato who hasn’t left the nest at age 35, but remember that an accident or illness can eliminate a person’s economic productivity in seconds. So you take your time deciding, and you examine the schools closely to identify the best combination of qualities you can find, and then deal with what comes your way after that. </p>
<p>Non-athletes choose schools for academic and social reasons and still make mistakes that result in transfers. It’s not as though that is a fool-proof plan either.</p>
<p>GFG… your post made it crystal clear to me that the parental perspective is 180* different than the perspective of a HS senior… boy did your post make me grin… and you are 100% correct that non-athletes can make mistakes too… overall, the things we consider in the college choice for our kids are things that are just not on our kids radar yet. Financial security?? Gainful employment? Economic productivity?? Analyzing poetry?? Intellectual compatibility?? How about are you a morning person or a night owl?? Thanks for bringing it home… college is only 4 years… it can set you on a road or not… marriage should be made with a deeper commitment, please God!! </p>
<p>I am just glad that pacheight’s child is as successful in sports as they are, cause it seems to be a consistent priority for both of them… and I mean that in a good way… I have seen kids burn out on their sports before they even hit HS… even Andre Agassi has said that he only found his passion again after he decided to quit… his father was more committed to his success than he was… which created a real conflict for them… </p>
<p>CC is a great sounding board, but at the end of the day it is just one, (or two or three) voices in the wind…</p>
<p>Things go wrong. Coaches leave or get fired. Athletes get injured. To have your entire identity and college career based on one facet of your being is risky.</p>
<p>Pach, I usually have no problems with your posts, but I beg to differ on the crack that if you aren’t following your sport first, you aren’t an athlete.</p>
<p>agassi’s dad required him to hit 100 balls a day minimum, rain or shine. of course it doesn’t rain that much in vegas.</p>
<p>i have the opposite situation…how many parents have their 13 year old kid shaking them awake at 5am to take them to practice…which means i haven’t slept in, in years:) with this kid it’s always been that way. and mom and dad are not athletes, although I do have the attitude of going for it or all your eggs in one basket. this focus on doing one thing very well, which d has done in her sport is also applied to her academics and arts. so. as i’ve said above, i’m a proponent of passionately pursuing your sport because, in part, it will have a positive impact in the other aspects of your life. </p>
<p>to use an investing analogy for college selection, i’m not a fan of diversification. it guarantees you mediocre returns. how do you think gates got rich, or ellison, or buffett, all their money in one stock, or in warren’s case just a few stocks. my d is similar to these guys with her life approach, which i guess she got from me, all in!</p>
<p>now “all in” is not for most people because it is uncomfortable and at times scary, but it’s also one hell of a ride! and that ride takes us to national and world championships. and when i see the love in her eyes for her sport and teammates it makes all the trouble worth it!</p>
<p>burn out may happen, but i’m fairly certain it’s mom and dad who are burning out:) </p>
<p>so if you have this kind of athlete i recommend letting them pick the coach and team 1st.</p>
<p>pach, I empathize. When my daughter was 13, she was a maniac, too. Now that she’s 17 things have changed along with her body. As parents we have burned out with all of her demanding athletic activity, but luckily we’re finally seeing a more reasonable person emerge with maturity. She still burns for athletics, but she burns smarter now, using the fuel she has to get her where she needs to go because she no longer has unlimited supply. If your child is now nearly an adult, and I can’t tell for sure what age your child is, perhaps he/she will stay with athletics forever. If that’s the case, great. But like most young adults, mine won’t be a professional athlete, and therefore, her academic education comes first . . . not to say she’s not going to play for someone great though because she will.</p>