<p>I'm interested in many aspects of smith college, but I don't want to go to an all girls' school. I like the fact that the school is small enough to have real individual attention, has excellent academics, not so small where everybody knows everybody's life story, has a strong program in the sciences, and is a supportive (as opposed to relatively competitve) environment. Does anyone have any suggestions of schools similar in some of these respects in the northeast?</p>
<p>That describes a large # of the LAC's. Can you give a few more things you are looking for-- that would help.</p>
<p>ok, at least it's a start. what more would you like to know?</p>
<p>I guess my stats would probably be the greatest indicator...
1350 SAT, 94UW GPA, all honors classes. Does that help a little?</p>
<p>Do you are about location?? Urban vs rural? Near or not to a big city, etc?? In the NE, consider Williams, Middlebury, Vassar, Bowdoin. This should help get you started.</p>
<p>Urban or rural doesn't matter, but I honestly don't think i'd get in to the schools you mentioned with my stats!</p>
<p>anything other preferences? (I'm sure I have a lot, I've thought about it a lot, I just don't know what people are looking for and what I should post)</p>
<p>With your stats, also look at Oberlin, Vassar, Kenyon and Skidmore for co-ed schools with a similiar "feel" as Smith. For some reason, Earlham in Indiana seems to get a lot of cross-applications with Smith as well.</p>
<p>Nota bene: some people have indeed found the single-sex factor at Smith too problematic. However, many more who had some concerns have found it to be No Problem, the guys are around. (And I'm talking about straight women.)</p>
<p>MDHopeful, I don't know where you live but at least here in SoCal there is a Smith party for prospective students this Sunday. It was at such an event two years ago that my D first began to consider Smith after a Q&A session with 15-20 current Smith students, young women who happened to be the best advertising that any college could hope for.</p>
<p>In New York, Hobart Smith, Union College, Hamilton, Colgate.....Skidmore....
In the midwest, Macalester, Beloit, Lake Forest (Safety)
In the west, Claremont consortium. At Scripps you could live in a quiet woman's dorm and go across the street to find y chromosones.</p>
<p>All-women is one of the things that makes Smith Smith. I hope you don't overlook this extremely important point.</p>
<p>Good morning-
You have gotten some excellent responses in the interim, since last night-- and they mention ones I would have mentioned next if I hadn't fallen asleep :) (Colgate, Hamilton, Skidmore, Kenyon). A few more to add in the NE are Union College, Lafayette, Bard and Dickinson.</p>
<p>Oberlin College in OH fits your description perfectly, pretty much. While it's not in New England, per se, it's not really quite in the midwest, either. It's sort of in the Mideast. It's adjacent to Pennsylvania!</p>
<p>Anyway, I love Oberlin. It's got absolutely top notch academics, and it's well known for its science programs, particularly neuroscience, physics, and life sciences. To me, it's a perfect size with about 2,300 kids in the College, and 560 kids in the Conservatory. These 560 kids make almost every evening and weekend extremely pleasant and wonderful, with about 400-600 concerts and recitals a year. It's also got a beautiful and expansive art museum, just like Smith's (but better! :) )</p>
<p>The student faculty ratio is great: 10-1, so you don't have to worry about being ecclipsed by other students, or anything like that. And, best of all, it's truly a community. I visited for 3 days in October, and literally everyone I saw seemed to get along. I went from playing a Steinway upright in the Conservatory, to watching the Ray Charles tribute on TV in the African Heritage House lounge, to the Friday Night Halloween Organ Pump (which was a wonderful sight to behold), and I wanted to be friends with everyone I met. I was greeted warmly wherever I went, with the excited question "Oh! Are you a prospie?" When I sheepishly answered "Yes," they looked genuinely happy and excited, and told me "You're going to love it here."</p>
<p>My friend Elisabeth is a freshman at Smith, and she is hoping to transfer to Oberlin, because she feels it is easier to be a part of a community at Oberlin, and she also plays violin very seriously, and would love to be around such a vibrant music scene.</p>
<p>Anyway, I hope you find any of that useful. Best of luck to you!</p>
<p>Trevor</p>
<p>Bettina is right - what makes Smith, Smith is the lack of males. However, I have come to think that certain co-ed LACs are more "masculine" or "feminine" than others. Sounds strange but here's what I mean: some LACs attract more aggressively career-oriented students. There is often a more competitive atmosphere between students. These schools tend to be more "preppy" and emphasize male sports and a partying atmosphere. They often have a large percentage of frats and sororities on campus as well. I'd classify these schools as more "masculine" in nature. Examples of "masculine" culture schools include Dickinson, Colgate, Franklin & Marshall, Lake Forest.</p>
<p>On the other side of the coin are schools I classify as having a more "feminine" culture.
These schools tend to attract students who are interested in learning for intellectual or artistic growth, rather than for career potential. The culture of these schools includes more of a focus on political activism, team work, and cooperation. The focus of social life revolves around political causes and artistic pursuits more than drinking parties (not that drinking doesn't occur everywhere). Usually, these schools do not have a large Greek presence. Often, they are formerly all-female schools that are now co-ed. And, of course, the all-female schools generally fall into this category as well. Examples of "feminine culture" schools include Smith, Earlham, Swarthmore,
Goucher, Skidmore, Oberlin, Vassar.</p>
<p>I'm sure some will disagree with this analysis and there are definitely schools that fall somewhere in between but I think if you are attracted to a certain "type" of school in one category - such as Smith - you are best served by looking at other schools that also fall into that category. A good education can be found at many schools but a "good fit" usually requires some attention to things beyond educational quality. Just my humble opinion.</p>
<p>Carolyn: I'm not entirely sure exactly how far one can go with it, but the masculine versus feminine distinction is a fascinating way to think about the subtle (and sometimes not very subtle) distinctions between some of these LAC's. To me, Williams and Colgate have always felt VERY masculine. And it's really the overall "feel," not necessarily just the emphasis on team sports, pre-professional majors, Greek scene, and slightly more "hardcore" drinking.</p>
<p>Now, before the PC Police jump all over me --by defining sports, pre-professionalism, and partying/drinking as "masculine," I'm in no way stating or implying that these characteristics are better or worse than some of the characteristics Carolyn referred to as "feminine," nor am I saying that some perfectly wonderful human beings of the "feminine" gender don't share and perhaps prefer some of these supposedly "masculine" qualities. Carolyn, I understood that you were just "shorthanding" and using common "labels" easily recognizable by most.</p>
<p>Finally, running with this thought a little further, I'm much less familiar with the masculine/feminine "feel" of a few other LAC's which are on my D's radar screen: Amherst (thinking it's something of a muted and toned-down Williams); Pomona (somewhat balanced in this regard -- Scripps is of course much more "feminine," but I'm thinking it's something of a muted Swarthmore); and Carleton (I don't have a clue).</p>
<p>Thanks Carolyn. This will be helpful to me and should be helpful to the OP.</p>
<p>Based on your statistics and interests, I would have to second Mr. B's recommendation of Macalester. Its demographics are 60% female, so it is a little easier to find other girls than boys and yields to a feminine environment. I found it very liberal and very supportive while I visited there, but as a guy, I also did not feel like I was in the minority. The academics were outstanding, and the campus had a really good location in St. Paul, the tenth largest metropoliton area and the second-fastest growing one.</p>
<p>DudeDiligence, Yes, it goes much farther than drinking/partying, etc. and specific genders or specific gender break downs on a campus - it is about the feel of the school overall, it's campus culture and what is valued and shared between students. I've been thinking about this for a while and I think that most colleges probably fall along a spectrum of masculine vs. feminine culture with some at extremes of the spectrum. And, whether a campus has a masculine or feminine culture has nothing to do with the quality of the actual EDUCATION provided - just the culture of campus life. I think you raised another good point - I'm not implying that a male student would be more comfortable on a masculine campus or a female on a feminine campus --- it really is just a matter of personality and fit rather than a "male-female" thing. As you also note, this also probably doesn't work neatly for all schools. </p>
<p>Anyhow, I'd definitely put Carleton towards the feminine side - it's a kind of quirky place, where individuality is welcomed, another characteristic of a "feminine" school now that I think about it. Pomona is probably towards the center - it has aspects of both cultures but it probably falls towards the feminine culture. Amherst, in my opinion, would definitely fit on the "masculine" culture side. Thinking about the Ivy league, I'd put Brown and Yale on the feminine culture side, Harvard, Dartmouth and
Cornell in the masculine culture side. I'm not sure how I'd place UPenn (probably towards the masculine side though) and Princeton (I see both masculine and feminine culture characteristics there).</p>
<p>Incidentally, the reason I started thinking about this is because I have two very different children in terms of their personalities. One definitely wants a more "feminine" campus culture, the other would thrive in a more "masculine" culture school. Try to steer either of them towards a school that is way over on the opposite side of culture and they both go "yuck, not for me." And, it has nothing to do with their genders, more to do with their basic underlying personalities.</p>
<p>I don't want to take over the original poster's thred with this discussion so I think I am going to copy the last few links over to the parent's board. Anyone interested in discussing this concept can join the discussion over there.</p>
<p>I think you have hit on a very apt segregation--so long as nobody goes off on a PC rant about it.</p>
<p>Dude Diligence - I'm going to take exception to the characterization of Williams as masculine and Amherst as feminine.</p>
<p>Williams did away with frats a long time ago - late 60's/early 70's. There's no "Greek scene" at Williams and hasn't been for a long time. And Williams went co-ed well before Amherst did.</p>
<p>Amherst had frats until fairly recently. If anything I think of it as the more "masculine" school - maybe that is a vestige of its history as an all-male school surrounded by all-female schools (Smith and Mt. Holyoke).</p>
<p>DudeD, Re Amherst :: Williams, I'd have to agree with jrpar. These two school are viewed as siamese twins and distinctions between them are subtle. If I were to follow Carolyn's m/f delineation I would definitely put Williams on the more yin side and Amherst on the yang. Maybe this is because I know so much about Williams' commitment to the arts --art, art history, music, dance, theater -- and know so many students who are involved in these pursuits. The impression we got from our visit to Amherst was that the arts were low on the totem pole. As far as being a "muted and toned-down Williams" again the impression we got was that it was a reserved and cold Williams. So, basically, I see Williams as having a much more balanced m/f character. Well, as I said, it's subtle. Let us know after your daughter visits.</p>