<p>Not at all offended by who gets financial aid - surprised that some are talking about scrimping on incomes in the 180k plus range and possible feeling that they might fall into the category of those who are squeezed by ED/EA categories. Merit aid is generally given to students at the top of the admissions profile at 2nd and 3rd tier schools to attract more qualified candidates. If student has no demonstrated need, then they pay total cost minus merit award. Kids with less merit and more need might be squeezed at these schools as packages are more attractive (grant vs loan) for highly desirable candidates. I have no problem with the income bracket of any student who earns a merit award. That is not at issue. Most top tier schools take the stand that any student who is admitted has merit by definition and they’re not going to split hairs on how much merit. Aid is strictly need based. My quibble is with kids (and/or parents) who feel that on 200k one can’t both eat and send a kid to college.</p>
<p>Not sure how you define tiers. Chicago, JHU, NotreDame, WashU, Vanderbilt, Rice, Emory, USC - all offer major merit scholarships.
Ivies are not considered first tier, just peers of the schools listed above but they all follow specific policies which state that they have no scholarships based on merit.</p>
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<p>You are absolutely correct on this point. I specifically contacted Stanford last year about applying RD to USC (USC does not and still does not have EA) before the USC scholarship deadline of December 1. I mean, RD is RD, right? NOOOOOOOOOOO. Stanford said, sorry, applying before their SCEA results post on 12/15 for anything anywhere other than to a rolling admissions school would count as an “EA” application and violate their SCEA rules. That specifically killed off kids’ who wanted a shot at USC’s vast scholarship pool and seemed unduly cruel. However, USC is not stupid. Any application that they liked that came in after December 1 still got scholarship consideration and scholarships were awarded as if those apps had come in before Dec 1. So, evidently, the gaming between these two schools has stopped and Stanford threw up the white flag.</p>
<p>I have no problem with merit aid, and its kind of disingenuous to imply that we would be against that. If merit aid is so highly sought after than the student could attend a state public school and get their aid that way or go to one of the schools you mention. What I do have a problem with is someone trying to pretend they are needy when their parents make 200k.</p>
<p>“My quibble is with kids (and/or parents) who feel that on 200k one can’t both eat and send a kid to college.”</p>
<p>200k income after state, federal taxes goes down to around 120-135k based on where the family lives. If they own a home and pay property taxes, it can further go down to 110k or so. Then it comes down to how many kids are in the family that are in college or need to eventually go to college. So if each kid needs 55k to attend those colleges which only consider FA, how does more than one kid go to college? So what colleges providing FA normally do is that when there is one kid already in college, they reduce your income by a specific amount the family is already paying for that kid to lower the available income to pay for the second kid. This is why they always talk of how you can get more FA if you already have a kid in college.</p>
<p>As one of the parents you have a quibble with based on your statement - my question for you is why you think evaluating how the FA is provided at different schools amounts to a question of whether one can eat after paying the bill? Before taxes, someone has to make 100k to pay the 60k tab when one makes 200k. Paying college bills does not give a tax break at that income level.</p>
<p>OTOH - I feel it is disingenuous on the part of colleges that offer zero pay at incomes upto 65-70k but the FA practically disappears for those making 100k. How does a bump of 30k in income make up for a school tab of 55k?</p>
<p>Look if you don’t think its worth paying 55k to send your kid their tell them they have to go somewhere else. The whole tax argument is stupid because it applies to everyone. It’s going to be impossible for you convincing me that you are middle class let alone needy when you make more than 97 percent of Americans.</p>
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<p>Brown went to need-blind admissions in 2002. And they still claim to be need-blind for Frosh applicants on their website. OTOH, financial aid is limited for transfer applicants to Brown.</p>
<p>[Brown</a> Admission: Cost & Financial Aid](<a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University)</p>
<p>^ That’s what it says on the website but the admissions officer giving the talk on October 22nd, 2011 clearly stated otherwise and described a need blind policy only in so far as they had not exceeded their FA budget. She said this has not been an issue in the past but the reality was that they were prepared to be need aware if they were over budget. Without a doubt they do run a financial projection before sending out responses based on potential FA awards. Maybe this is the new reality with threats of a double dip recession and high unemployment.</p>
<p>^See my post #33. Sounds like what Reed started doing a couple of years ago. </p>
<p>I don’t doubt that it’s the new reality, but it’s also a lie to say that they have need blind admissions on their website. I believe that’s what they said, it just blows my mind that they stated something so obviously contrary to their official policy.</p>
<p>Agreed. 10char</p>
<p>^^Exactly. At least Colgate, Reed and Tufts and other need-aware schools publicly admit that the last few applications are pulled for a financial aid calculator… In the cases of Reed and Tufts, for example, their official policy was need-aware, but they had enough money to be need-blind for several years up to the downturn/crash. Since ~'08, however, they’ve had to go back to being need-aware in practice.</p>
<p>Brown being need-aware when they clearly state that they are not is…</p>
<p>That may be one reason Brown is being very active internationally since they want more paying students in the mix.</p>
<p>“Any application that they liked that came in after December 1 still got scholarship consideration and scholarships were awarded as if those apps had come in before Dec 1.”</p>
<p>this is pure speculation and supposition on your part. As I mentioned upstream, Stanford’s written policy, for the last 7 years at least , has been that apps that must be submitted early in order to qualify for scholarship consideration are allowed.</p>
<p>"Restrictive Early Action Policy</p>
<pre><code>Applicants agree not to apply to any other private college/university under an Early Action, Restrictive Early Action, Early Decision, or Early Notification program.
Applicants may apply to other colleges and universities under their Regular Decision option.
</code></pre>
<p>Exceptions</p>
<pre><code>The student may apply to any college/university with early deadlines for scholarships or special academic programs as long as the decision is non-binding.
</code></pre>
<p><a href=“Page Not Found : Stanford University”>Page Not Found : Stanford University;
<p>This has been Stanfords policy for years</p>
<p>Text of email that came today. With a similar class size as Harvard who are providing 166 Million, how far does 90 million go? Essentially, they need to ensure they have more paying students.</p>
<p>Thank you for your interest in Columbia University. As you continue to get to know Columbia through our website, our publications, and hopefully a visit to campus, I encourage you to also explore our extensive financial aid program which provides over $90 million in financial aid to undergraduates each year. Visit [Columbia</a> University Office of Undergraduate Financial Aid and Educational Financing](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/finaid]Columbia”>Columbia Financial Aid and Educational Financing) to access financial aid forms and deadlines and learn more. We offer one of the most generous need-based financial aid programs to be found in United States colleges: </p>
<p>Admission to Columbia is need-blind for citizens and permanent residents of the United States, and for those in the United States on refugee visas. We do award financial aid to foreign students, though financial need is taken into consideration at the time of admission.
For every student admitted as a first-year student and who applied for financial aid, we meet 100% of the family’s demonstrated financial need, regardless of citizenship, and we continue to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need for all four years of study.
For students receiving Columbia need-based aid, we have eliminated student loans and replaced them with Columbia grants.
For students coming from families with calculated total annual incomes of less than $60,000 and typical assets, we do not expect parents to contribute to the cost of tuition, fees, room or board.
For students coming from families with calculated total annual incomes between $60,000 and $100,000 and typical assets, we have significantly reduced the parent contribution.
Families earning over $100,000 can still qualify for significant financial aid from Columbia.</p>
<p>Students should never exclude Columbia from their consideration because of its cost. With financial aid, Columbia can be affordable and accessible to students from every socioeconomic background. Just as the admissions staff strives to understand each student’s unique academic and personal achievements in the admissions process, the financial aid office hopes to understand your family’s individual financial situation and how we can help make a Columbia education possible for you. </p>
<p>We look forward to working with you. </p>
<p>Sincerely, </p>
<p>Laurie Schaffler
Dean of Financial Aid/Associate Dean of Student Affairs </p>
<p>P.S. I also encourage you and your family to access our Net Price Calculator [Net</a> Price Calculator | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Financial Aid and Educational Financing](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/finaid/npc]Net”>Estimate Your Net Cost | Columbia Financial Aid and Educational Financing), an interactive tool designed to give an early indication of how much and what types of financial aid students might qualify for if they attend Columbia. Based on data entered by you and your family, the calculator provides an estimate of the approximate family contribution.</p>
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<p>But the point of restricted early admissions is that you apply because it is your first choice, and will likely commit unless there is financial hardship. The point of SCEA is so that you have to choose between a particular school and its competitors, including some desirable scholarships from peer schools. It keeps the applicant numbers down so that not any single person is going to apply to every single school and scholarship all at the same time. </p>
<p>What would you rather prefer, every single applicant applying to PSHY also dropping an app for the BC scholarship just for the sake of it, or people actually having to choose between their options?</p>
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<p>@saintfan Uh, did you even read my post?
I don’t need any FA because yeah my parents DID “scrimp and save.” Like I said, I don’t know how much they make. But in my area, say they made $200k, after taxes they’d get about $110,000. And with three kids, one in college and one about to be, and fairly serious medical problems that cost a shizzload of money for more than one of our 5-person family, you DO need to “scrimp and save” to be able to set aside $200,000 PER CHILD to go to college. And there’s NO car payments of mine for them to pay, because although literally 95% of my friends got cars this year (some got Mercedes weeks before they even took the road test) I share my parent’s old car with my older sister so that YET AGAIN, my parents could save up more than $600,000 to send all of us to college without financial difficulty. Unless you’ve lived in an area with super high taxes (where I am is rated in like the top 5) and made $200,000 a year with multiple kids, don’t pretend to know that someone like that doesn’t need to scrimp and save. </p>
<p>YET AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO DON’T READ, I said that paying for college will not be an issue for my family so I’m not personally invested in the $200k issue except from a fair distance when looking at situations with my friends. But I can guarantee you that anyone who tries to save up $600k will definitely need to “scrimp and save” because they’d need to make around 1 million dollars before taxes where I live to save that, not to mention all the expenses for everyday life. So I’ll take my old used and shared car and my fake Uggs and non-designer clothing, because I DON’T have to worry about my parents paying for my college education. But if my parents DID drop money on every whim we had, I can guarantee they wouldn’t have been able to set aside $600k.</p>
<p>/end rant</p>
<p>born2dance: When you receive your admission package, drop by in person to the school’s financial aid office to let them know about your family’s situation with multiple kids and the medical bills. All of these are usually taken into account and, if determined to be serious enough, can help to reduce your expected family contribution. </p>
<p>Also, what kind of school do you go to that 95% of your friends have cars and you’re worried about designer clothes and so on? There are tons of students out there working many hours a week, where these are the least of their worries ;). All of all, you have pretty amazing parents who must care about you and your siblings very much to make these sacrifices so that you can attend the college of your choice.</p>
<p>“But for everyone else in between, SCEA can be off limits. Passing up a shot at a big scholarship at a well-respected school like BC or ND can be a giant price to pay, given that the admission odds at the SCEA universities are so steep.”
this is not correct. IF you are REQUIRED to submit an early application in order to be considered for a scholarship AND the application is non binding, THEN it is OK to apply early to another private college. including Boston College.</p>
<p>Boston College does not permit students to apply under our Early Action program if they are applying to a binding Early Decision program at another college. Students are free to apply to other Early Action and Regular Decision programs.</p>
<p><a href=“Page Not Found : Stanford University”>Page Not Found : Stanford University;
<p>Applicants agree not to apply to any other private college/university under an Early Action, Restrictive Early Action, Early Decision, or Early Notification program.
Applicants may apply to other colleges and universities under their Regular Decision option.</p>
<p>Exceptions</p>
<p>The student may apply to any college/university with early deadlines for scholarships or special academic programs as long as the decision is non-binding.</p>
<p>“What would you rather prefer, every single applicant applying to PSHY also dropping an app for the BC scholarship just for the sake of it, or people actually having to choose between their options?”</p>
<p>Applicants dont drop early applications “just for the sake of it”- they drop them in order to have the best possible chance of being able to obtain a quality college education, at a price they can afford, IF they end up not being one of the lucky 7% chosen by HYPS.</p>
<p>menloparkmom, thank you for the information on Stanford SCEA, but that does not apply to all the SCEA institutions, many of which don’t allow you to apply to any other private college EA at the same time. Unless that is not the case? I haven’t found many other SCEA school with this same policy as Stanford, but maybe I’m not looking at the right place.</p>
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<p>No?</p>
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<p>Like I said, it’s not a problem because they did save, so we don’t need FA.</p>
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A really good school, but it just has spoiled kids. And nah, I couldn’t care less about what I wear. I literally wear a pair of jeans and a tee-shirt every day, which a lot of my friends get on my case about because they think I look like I don’t give a shiz, but that’s true-- I don’t give a shiz. But some of my friends who do wear $100 of clothing a day are now facing a predicament where they don’t have money for college without FA.</p>
<p>As for the original post, again, I will say that I do actually have quite a few friends who were hindered during this process when it comes to applying to some early programs because of FA. Not the Ivies, which give full need, but slightly lower down. And yes, some of them of make $200k, but some make less. But cost of living is not always factored in so at this point they are looking at state schools. I don’t feel for the ones who wasted their money on material goods, only the ones who tried but unfortunately still couldn’t save up enough.</p>