Slap an international sophomore back to reality (and maybe provide some advice?)

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Demographics

  • International student (currently am a Canadian citizen)
  • State/Location of residency: Canada, Ontario
  • Type of high school: Public, but I’m in a specialized arts program. Is that relevant?
  • Gender/Race/Ethnicity (optional): Female/Chinese/Asian-Canadian
  • Other special factors (first generation to college, legacy, athlete, etc.): women in STEM (does this count???)

Intended Major(s): CS or Art

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores (used High School GPA Calculator)

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.6
  • Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 3.61
  • Class Rank: N/A
  • ACT/SAT Scores: did an online test cold turkey at 1am and scored a 72%…

Coursework
I’m taking a grade 11 course (Computer Science) this year. I’m not sure if that means anything.

Awards

  • RCM level 8 exam - First Class (? iirc. my score was probably 80-84) Honors
  • Top Cadet (summer 2019 </3)

Extracurriculars
(Include leadership, summer activities, competitions, volunteering, and work experience)

  • DECA/similar program but for Canada participant. 2 years (grade 9: recieved some regional distinction) (grade 10: made it to nationals, competition is still ongoing)
  • Cadets participant. 4 years (grade 9-present)
  • Cadets band. 3 years (grade 9)
  • Repetiore/school band. 1 year (grade 10-present)
  • Computer science club member. 1 year (grade 10-present)
  • Swim team member. 1 year (grade 10-present)
  • Art influencer (instagram). 3 years (grade 9-present)

Essays/LORs/Other
(Optionally, guess how strong these are and include any other relevant information or circumstances.)
I haven’t started working on essays yet. As for LoRs, I honestly don’t know many teachers. I help out the CS teacher during lunch breaks but we don’t talk much since I’m extremely shy. I’ve got no contact with any other teachers outside of class (and even then, I’m a pretty silent student).

Notes from me
Chance me for T20s! … Just kidding (kind of), I know I’ve got no shot at those schools as I am now. However, I do want to try and work towards that goal (as unrealistic as it may be). At the very least, I’ll be pushing myself to my limits and making the most of my time in high school.
I’ve made a general plan for myself for my remaining ~2 years in high school, and am looking for some feedback.

  • I know my grades are relatiely subpar but I’ve honestly never studied a day in high school. I’m making amends to that now and am planning to get 95%+ in my classes. I’m self-studying for the SAT, ACT and probably AP exams too.
  • I’m planning on taking Dual Credits in grade 11. I’m sad my school had to cancel AP classes because there weren’t enough students enrolling in them… : (
  • I’m going to enter coding competitions, hackathons and possibly internships if I can. I’m also going to enter art, swimming, math and physics competitions. I’m not expecting to win anything, but I’d rather try and fail than not try at all. As previously mentioned, I’ve qualified for the nationals for a buisness competition, so hopefully I perform alright.
  • I’m working on a passion project, a visual novel. I’m the sole person working on this project. It combines my coding and visual art skills (though to be honest, it highlights my art more than my coding abilities). I might enter it into some small-scale competitions.
  • I’m going to try for a leadership position at the buisness club next year.
  • This summer, I’m going to enroll in a Cadets summer program. This unfortunately takes up most of my summer, so I won’t be able to take advantage of typical activities in the summer such as internships. However, I think I’ve got an alright shot at snagging an honor from the program. (I’m planning to do this every year, as long as the circumstances allow for it.)
  • I will be submitting an art supplement as I’ll also be applying to art colleges, so I’ll already have a portfolio.

That puts an end to my current plans. I’m technically also rolling the possibility of starting an organization or npo related to visual novels around in my head but it’s extremely tentative so I didn’t add it to my list.

Assuming I stuck to my plan and excecuted everything on it, how would I fare if I were to apply to a T20 school? Assume finances aren’t an issue. Prestige is pretty important to my family, even if they don’t outright state that or pressure me into it (which I appreciate immensely). All of my worries about college are entirely self-inflicted.

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I also grew up in Canada. After graduating high school I attended MIT for my bachelor’s degree. As an international student at MIT, I was invited to show up a couple of days early and attend a welcome event for international students. This gave me at least one peek into the type of international students who get accepted to the top ranked American universities. It was a humbling experience (“How did I get accepted here” came to mind). The international students at the top US universities are in many, many cases coming in with very impressive accomplishments.

Just being the #1 or #2 student in your high school is not likely to be sufficient to get you accepted to a university on the “MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, Chicago” level. It would be a start, but you will need quite a bit more.

If you are a top 5% student in your high school, and a very good hockey player, then I will point out that Harvard has a hockey team (actually 2, men’s and woman’s). Right now Harvard does have some Canadian players on both their men’s and women’s varsity hockey teams. I would be surprised if they ever fail to have a few Canadians on their hockey teams. A few other top universities will be the same.

In most cases the top ranked universities in the US do not have merit based financial aid. You can run the NPC and see what they are likely to cost you. Without need based aid they are insanely expensive. My kids and I have dual citizenship but live in the US. Our one daughter who just graduated from university in Canada (and more recently started her first professional job in the US) spent less for four years of university in Canada than it would have cost us for one year at one of the top ranked universities in the US. Lower ranked US universities if we could get merit aid, or our in-state public universities, would have been somewhere in the middle.

You have some superb universities in Ontario. Toronto, Queen’s, McMaster, and Waterloo come to mind but I know that there are quite a few more.

Two more things to think about: If you graduate from a university in the US, this will not give you the legal right to stay and work in the US. You will be required to return to your home country. However, at least in my experience Canadian employers prefer to hire graduates from the very good Canadian universities. Also, universities in the US have a wider range of general education requirements. You will be required to take more courses in unrelated fields. My daughter who recently graduated from university in Canada in contrast was allowed to take more classes in her major or in related fields. This means that graduates from Canadian universities do come out very well prepared for employment and for graduate programs.

One thing that you should very seriously consider: Get a bachelor’s degree in Canada, and then consider getting a master’s degree at one of the top universities in the US. Admissions at the top universities in the US will know how strong the academics are at the top Canadian universities (or even at average Canadian universities).

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Would you consider the University of Victoria ?

Offers majors in both of your areas of interest (CS & Fine Arts).

Would offer a significant change of scenery from Ontario. Located in one of the most beautiful cities in the world with a more moderate climate than that in Ontario.

P.S. Tuition & fees for CS (direct entry program) per academic year is estimated at $8,218 Canadian. (About $6,400 US.)

Single room & meal plan cost per academic year in the soon to be completed new dorms = about $12,800 Canadian (about $10,200 US).

Total cost-of-attendance per year = approximately $21,000 Canadian (about $16,600 US) plus cost of travel.

Four years at the University of Victoria would cost you about the same as one year at a US university or college.

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So…right now you are a tenth grader? Is that correct?

When you have a SAT or ACT score, suggestions will be easier to give.

Also, your mid year JUNIOR year GPA would be a better indicator of your GPA than what you have now which is really a freshman year GPA.

But please understand…those colleges have very low acceptance rates. You have some excellent choices in Canada. Start looking at those with enthusiasm.

Adding…you say finances don’t matter…but they do. Make sure your family can pay the full costs for you to attend a college in this country…because that just might be the cost…so let’s say $70,000 a year or so USD.

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I would also like to point out that Canada even has a great selection of Liberal Arts Colleges. Many international students come to the USA for this type of education, which is not common elsewhere, except in Canada. Canada there are dozens of LACs from which to choose.

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Interesting post. Would enjoy reading a list of Canadian LACs if you have one. Thanks !

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Wikipedia provides a list. For two that may be the academically strongest colleges (of any type) in their provinces, look into Mount Allison and Acadia.

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We were looking at small “primarily undergraduate” universities in eastern Canada. My understanding is that this is what @MWolf was referring to as Canadian “Liberal Arts Colleges”.

We explicitly visited Bishop’s (in Quebec), Mount Allison (in New Brunswick), St Francis Xavier (Nova Scotia), and Acadia (Nova Scotia) after one daughter was accepted to all four (she had strong stats). We liked all of them quite a bit. The most difficult part of the application was deciding which to attend. I think that my daughter went back and forth in her mind between three of them before deciding on one. I rather quickly got to “they are all very good” which means that I was not going to be bothered by whatever she decided. She graduated from one of them this past May after having a very good four years, having very good research and internship options, and learning a great deal. The COVID pandemic did not help much but of course that was an issue literally everywhere in the world. They are also relatively affordable for international students.

She has recently said something that my wife and I have suspected for a while: The culture seems a bit different than at the highest ranked LACs in the US. I have a sense that the culture is a bit more down to earth than at similar US LACs but it is hard for me to put my finger on just why. The academic excellence seems to be the same.

I have heard very good things about the University of Northern BC (in Prince George BC) and the University of Lethbridge (in Alberta). There are also some good small universities in Ontario, and some other schools that I have not mentioned (eg, U. PEI). We did not look in Ontario nor anywhere west of that.

Maclean’s magazine has a list of what they rank as the top “primarily undergraduate” universities in Canada.

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There is this:

I found this too:

I’m pretty sure that there are other articles.

We should be more aware of these, since there are Canadian students who come here who are definitely LAC types, and are unaware that there are similar colleges available in Canada.

On review, @DadTwoGirls mentioned these as well.

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Its difficult to gauge your chances at T20 colleges without knowing your class rank and test scores. Even if your HS does not rank, the colleges can usually estimate it. So start there.

If your class rank is outside of the top 5% then your road to a T20 acceptance will be very difficult. Many of the T20 colleges will offer aid to internationals, but it will be based on need (as they define it), not as how your parents will define it. The tuition/fees for these schools can run upwards of $320K USD for 4 years. Are your parents willing to shell that out? You could buy a decent house for that amount of money.

If money is no object then I’d start by doing the following

  1. Take harder courses. An unweighted 3.6 and weighted 3.61 indicates to me that you aren’t taking the honors/AP level classes in your high school. You’ll need to have high GPA with good rigor to have a chance.

  2. Get your grades up. The colleges do take upward progression into account.

  3. Study for the ACT/SAT. You’ll need high scores. Roughly 1500 for SAT or 33 for ACT will put you in the best shape. It doesn’t guarantee anything of course. But without this, you’ll face an uphill battle.

  4. Start working on a cohesive narrative about yourself. You want to portray yourself to the admissions committee that will stand out from the pack. Right now I see a mish-mash of different activities. Its hard for me to understand where you might fit into an incoming class.

If you decide to stay in Canada, you might also consider doing a semester/year abroad in the US. There is also the option of doing a post-graduate year at a US boarding school before starting college. You might also consider UK universities.

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