I know this was 20+ years ago but just food for thought. I went to a VERY low rated non-flagship state school (UW-Oshkosh). I had high GPA/MCAT and was accepted to both in-state medical schools to which I applied (received merit scholarship to one which significantly cut my later debt). It was easier to have a high GPA as yes, many weed-out classes were curved.
Once you have completed med school and residency, the VAST majority of jobs will only care if you are board-certified, what your residency director says about you, how well you interview and that you have a clean record. They do not care in any way where you went to undergrad. Assuming these things are positive, they will rarely even care where you went to medical school (assuming accredited U.S school). Main exceptions would be if you are more interested in an Academic or research based career, then prestige will count. If you desire to be an M.D. working in a hospital or clinic in “anytown” USA, it is really about competence and board-certification - prestige will not matter & no one will care where you went to undergrad. Either way, I agree with the advice to save as much as possible on under-grad & save it for med school. If you need a significant amount of hand-holding to get through the med school application process then that may play a role, but it seems you are a highly self-motivated person & this is likely not worth 100k+.
Agree with this 100%. Go with a UG school with the lowest cost, most likely your home State University UW-Madison. No body gives a darn which UG or medical school one attended once you are a board certified MD.
Here are stats about SLU SOM posted by @love4bsmd at BS/MD thread
SLU SOM:
Class of 2020: Thirty members of the class received their undergraduate degree from SLU.
Class of 2021: Forty-two members of the class received their undergraduate degree from SLU
Class of 2022: Twenty-five members of the class received their undergraduate degree at SLU.
Class of 2023: Thirty-eight members of the class received their undergraduate degree at SLU
Assume a 3:1 ratio among Med Scholar to regular UG gives approximately 22/8 (year 2020), 31/11 (year 2021), 26/9 ( year 2022), 29/9( year 2023). The average of these 4 years is 27 med scholars matriculating to SLU SOM from above calculations. Assuming the class started with 80, 27/81 = 1/3, so a 33% chance of matriculating to SLU SOM. The regular route MD has a 42% chance of at least one medical school acceptance.
Make your call after careful deliberations.
Then Duke is not a good deal for you - if Duke would use up all your funds, when you have excellent choices at Pitt and UWisconsin, at a minimum - you got into other programs, right?
Where else do you have beside these, any that are less than 50K and might share some characteristics with Duke?
Are the cost number on the first post just tuition? It looks that way for the Duke number. SLU med scholars may not be binding, but their ED program is binding. If you are planning on applying to multiple schools, the undergraduate and MD decisions are independent. Then you should only go to SLU if that is your top choice for undergraduate.
This isn’t an apples to apples comparison. The regular MD route of 42% is only for students who graduated, took the MCAT, and applied to med school. It’s a self-selecting group. It doesn’t include all the hopefuls that started pre-med as freshman. You’re including the freshman hopefuls in the 80 that started the med scholars program at SLU.
I’m thinking 80 start in the program. Let’s say half stay, graduate and meet the requirements to apply to med school. That’s 40 med scholars per year. Using your 27 med scholars that matriculate at SLU that’s about 67%.
The number of pre-meds at SLU is not 80 but much larger may be 200 or more. The 80 is the number of those selected in Medical Scholar Program and 27 were admitted to SL SOM, hence 27/81 is approx 33%. Unless want to use all applicants to the program (~900), it will be much lower than 33%.
Yes. I know 80 start the program but you included the wash-outs in your percentages (27/81 or 33%) which is fine but then to compare it to the 42% overall acceptance rate for all students is misleading. The 42% regular route MD doesn’t include the wash-outs from kids who start pre-med. If you included all the kids across the country who start pre-med but actually are accepted to med school the percentage would be much, much lower than 42%.
If you use the 42% regular route the better comparison would be to use the number of SLU med scholars who actually complete the program as the denominator.
80 start the program. Half or 40 stay in the program and graduate meeting the criteria and apply to med school(s). 27 on average enroll each year at SLU or close to 67% that stay in the program. That seems more realistic considering you have better than a 50/50 chance if you get an interview which you should if you meet the criteria. The other 13 or so probably go other med schools which seems realistic.
I did get into other programs! As of now I have solid acceptances at Loyola (Chicago), Marquette, UToledo Bacc2MD, Madison, Pitt, UT Dallas, and SLU. I will hear back from 7 more this month. All of these except UToledo would be less than 50K, but not sure if they would share some characteristics with Duke.
The cost number on the first post isn’t tuition. It is all of my scholarships subtracted from tuition + room and board. So that would be the actual cost I would be paying each year (at least, approximately).
The 67% calculation at SLU is solid, and the remaining 33% or so are mostly those who opt out, applying to other schools. In other words almost everyone who get through the attrition makes it to med school.
So it may be kind of compromise, one may not get the same kind of undergrad experience as at Duke, but will get a strong safety net and probably good price breaks for the undergrad. Then in 2-3 years one can decide whether to continue or opt out.
Exactly. If you make it through the med scholars program it seems like you’re “guaranteed” a spot somewhere. Again this makes sense assuming the med scholars program pre-selects top HS students.
Yes, I have reason to believe only strong HS students get invited to this program. 3.65 shouldn’t be a big thing for someone coming from a decent high school (non grade inflated). Also it is a reasonable bar, I imagine it won’t be easy to get into most med schools these days with that gpa.
Also a 3.65 or even higher at SLU should be easier than, say a 3.5 or even lower at Duke. If one fails to click at Duke with lot many very smart kids to compete with, that may be the end of med school aspirations (not saying will happen, but something to keep in mind). This should be given a higher consideration than the financial aspect of it. Heard Pitt is relatively easy with many opportunities but not with the kind of assurance that comes with SLU.
That’s a nice list. What are the other 7 schools?
Pitt Honors does have some type of pre-med advising. I think they work on getting you clinical experience so you can see if the medical profession is for you.
Loyola is a nice option too. My S20 had it on his short list. If he had won the Ignatian scholarship he probably would’ve taken it. Pretty campus, Jesuit education, Chicago and their own med school.
Duke would be great but at what cost? Med school is a marathon, not a sprint. There are many ways to get off that path including finances.
FYI, the data for regular route MD is from AAMC(official Association of American Medical Colleges in USA)
https://www.aamc.org/media/6091/download
See the last two rows, 42.3% is derived as (# of accepted applicants to at least one medical school)/ Total # of applicants to medical schools during regular MD cycle).
Similarly for SLU Med Scholar it should be 27/80 or 27/90 = 30%, where (100+80)/2 = 90 is average of Med Scholars for last two years ( No apple and oranges here), QED
This comparison is misleading. Fundamental difference between 42% traditional vs 67% SLU med scholar.
Pre-med is not an admission offered from a school, so virtually everyone in any UG can be a pre-med. Vs. SLU med scholar is an admission offered so not every SLU UG is in that program. So their base indeed starts at admitted pool of ~100, not after weed out. So 67% is misleading.
Applied to so many UG schools when your end goal is Med School? We applied to just 1 school outside of BSMD programs for which DD has admission. The plan is to attend one of the feeder UGs if not selected for BSMD. We only applied to those BSMD feeders where DD will be happy to go to any of them if selected into BSMD, and a few of them are also choice for traditional UG.
There is always some good things and some bad things with every school. Its all individuals’ criteria: fit, cost, goals, feasibility,… whatever. 50 people debating over 15 schools will never get to a consensus 
LoL…Having too much choice is bad at times! We already narrowed it down to 3 schools, including one waiting for BSMD outcome, and SLU Med Scholars is one of them.
This is very recommended when one has financial considerations. Med school is very expensive and UG schools can be unreliable with what to expect in cost due to merit and/or need based aid awards. In order to find out what a final cost will be, one has to apply and see.
Short of being comfortably full pay for both UG and Med school I would never recommend a student only apply to one UG - at least - not here in PA. Some of y’all live in states where maybe the state flagship is reliably free or very low cost if your stats are high enough?
Its not just one, I would say that we did close to 20 schools including BSMD feeders. And most of them have merit and we get no need-based. Yes the CoA is one the factors used to drop so called Dukes/Dartmouths, if we have to go just for pre-med. Happy to shell some for UG, if DD gets into a reasonable BSMD.
Your numbers are correct but the comparison is misleading. They’re two different numbers. The SLU scholars number includes all 80 that started as freshman. It’s the entire population including the weed-outs. To be apples to apples your ratio should be 21/40 give or take with 40 being the actual number of med scholars that complete the program and apply to med schools.
The 42.5% acceptance is just for students who apply to med school and are selected to at least one school. It doesn’t include all the pre-med weed-outs that started as freshman. It’s a self-selecting group that have their undergrad degree, good GPA and took the MCAT. The weed-outs are excluded.
My 67% calculation was spit-balling but comparing the percentages above is apples to oranges because the populations are different. You could make some argument that the 80 med scholars are somewhat self-selecting already and that would be valid but they’re still 80 freshman and we know there’s a big difference between a freshman and someone who’s made it to the med school application process.