You haven’t really said anything at all about the differences between the two high schools. I’m not sure how people are supposed to interpret A- and A+. The first step, IMO, is to figure out what you are looking for in a high school. Then see which high school matches these qualities the best.
Have you compared the clubs and EC’s available at each school? As I said in my earlier post, writing for the school paper was something I really wanted to do and it was only available at one school and not the other. What are your children interested in other than academics? Does one have a better drama club, sports programs, Model UN, photography club or some other activity that could positively impact your child’s HS career and provide the basis for an essay or a letter of rec?
Where are their friends going? When I went to the first HS, 2 boys from my prior school were also going but I wasn’t friends with them. I had no friends going in and the friends I did make lived in other boroughs because it was a commuter school, so I had no real way to hang out with the friends I did make on weekends or school breaks. When I transferred, I made friends who lived near me and that increased my enjoyment. I also had friends with whom I could study.
You have to take the intangibles into consideration as well.
@pizzagirl - H and I were raised in the city and moved to the suburbs for the schools. It’s a decision I regret. Had we stayed in the city, my D might have had the chance to attend a performing arts HS, my middle son likely could have gotten into one of the selective HS’s and my other kids could have applied to schools which had programs that reflected their interests. Instead, they were forced into a one size fits all, we only care about the tippy top students who will bring us Siemens awards and the rest of the kids are fodder, school. I sent my oldest son to an alternative HS after 9th grade because the local HS was destroying him, just as my original school was on track to do to me.
Oh please. This supposedly is a smart student. I’m guessing he will be academically stimulated wherever he goes to HS.
I’m not sure there is a distinguishable difference between the two options posted by the OP.
And remember…a week after your kid graduates from HS, NO ONE (except you) will care what his class rank was.
Our kids attended different high schools. The oldest (D) attended the local (suburban Northern VA) public school. She was a top student there (per class rank, # of AP classes taken,etc.), and she enjoyed it socially. The school is a good one as are the schools here generally, but it is not one of the “top” NoVA high schools (i.e. not Langley or Oakton, etc).
S was accepted at the magnet science and tech school and chose to attend. We knew that he would likely not be at the top of the heap there (though he did very well). We also knew that there is no way to know “what would have been” if he had attended the school his sister did. But it was a better fit socially and it offered a superior education. It really was a better school academically and a better school for him. And it was actually not as high pressure as we had expected - at least not for him.
Both kids ended up going to the school that fit them best, both attended their top college choices and both were well prepared for college.
I would be interested to know what exactly the difference between the A+ and the A- school is too. Schools are so different here. Everything is magnet so the most competitive programs are often placed in low performing schools to bolster test scores. So ironically, around here, the highest achievers almost never go to A schools because they don’t offer IB, medical magnet or any of the other trendy magnet programs (I honestly don’t recall what some of the others are) I can only offer my own experience in an extremely competitive magnet program - it really, really depends on the kid. As has been mentioned in my other thread, the higher echelon of the program my son is in has a tendency to overshare (my kid included) so I know who is succeeding and who is struggling. But even in those succeeding, not all are thriving. Some love the challenge, I mean really, really love things that you frankly couldn’t have paid me to do in high school. Others are in the program and taking the very hardest options because they are being pushed to and they are not happy - some disconcertingly so (I’ve heard some stories that I really hope are not literally true). My younger daughter talks about going to IB in high school and I admit I’m reluctant. She doesn’t have the same personality as her older brother. He may take these crazy classes and compete for valedictorian (he’s not going to make it unless someone cracks - he’s firmly stuck at 3rd) but he does it cause he thinks its fun (most of it - TOK not so much) DD is a more anxious child so while just as intelligent as her brother, I’m not sure that what works for him would work for her. So just as I wouldn’t push her into sports because he enjoys it, nor would I push her into a competitive high school - unless it was HER choice.
So without knowing more about exactly how you are defining more stimulating/competitive, my suggestion is still to visit/shadow/ask questions but mostly to take into consideration what your son wants. Good grades and challenges courses ARE important. But a happy kid is really important too.
If the OP’s child was accepted to a top magnet program, they can compete there.
I’m choosing the best 10 times out of 10.
Best academically does not equal the best experience or fit for all students .
Magnet schools around here are a dime a dozen. Some of the top schools used to be by application only. Now they are a lottery and really anyone can be picked.
In fact, there has been a lot,of press around here about this, and that perhaps in this area, the magnet school concept has been overdone.
D (not a genius, but an “average excellent” student with stats in the upper quartile for even elite schools) went to a B+ high school in our area. We seriously thought about moving one suburb over to get into the A+ district that is just over the border. In retrospect, I’m glad we didn’t. At her school she was part of a relatively small cohort of 20-30 kids who were in advanced classes, ran many of the ECs, and got to know the teachers very well. While the “average” at her school was certainly lower than that at the A+ school, she was still given opportunities and challenges to work to the top of her potential. At our neighbor school to the north, my somewhat introverted daughter would likely have either been stressed to the max or lost in the shuffle.
My advice is not to look at “averages”, but to investigate further as to what the resources and experiences offered are for kids like yours. You may be surprised.
As someone who attended one of those schools, the competitive atmosphere wasn’t centered on class standings as implied above as:
- Other than the Val and Sal, students aren't ranked.
- The student culture was such few people cared whether one made Val or Sal. Also, people were much more impressed by other markers....such as whether one was a Westinghouse/Intel/Sieman's semifinalist/finalist or a member of the math/debate teams.
It was a reason why most HS classmates found one classmate’s obsession to be val of her graduating class from the moment she was an incoming sophomore* from a private school to the point of getting an ulcer at 15 to be quite odd. It was apparent she didn’t understand that being a val by itself didn’t count for very much even during the latter half of senior year/commencement absent other things like being a math/debate team member or a Westinghouse/Intel/Siemens semi/finalist.
Instead, the stress was on one’s GPA, keeping up with/fitting into the nerd culture**, and college admissions outcomes including FA/scholarship outcomes as most of my classmates when I attended came from lower-middle class to low income backgrounds.
- Back when I attended HS, it was easier to get admitted to our public magnet as an incoming sophomore than an incoming freshman. A reason why this path is often used by students who failed to gain admission the previous year and why there was a bit of stigma of being one among a jerky portion of our classmates.
** Defined as being highly academically engaged and above average in performance in that particular academic environment. Most of us didn’t qualify in that context.
It wasnt meant to represent Stuy literallly. Rather the parents who push mercilessly. We could substitute GPA and contest wins for rank. And if parents want to say it’s their kids who get caught up in this (when it’s to their detriment,) I still say, be a parent.
Don’t know about now, but the vast majority of the pressure at my public magnet when I attended and from what I’ve heard from friends who attended other public magnets like it…including TJ…most of the pressure was driven by the students themselves and by some of our HS teachers…not the parents.
Another thing to think about is the worst pressure IME wasn’t necessarily felt by the top students…but those of us at the estimated middle/bottom of the class. If anything, most friends who ended up graduating in the top quarter actually had a far more relaxed enjoyable HS experience than myself or classmates who were in the bottom 2/3-3/4 of the class.
The former type of HS classmate included the friend who ended up as the sal of my graduating class and continued to astound us and his MIT dormmates when he actually managed to excel at MIT, be more active in ECs/clubs/volunteering, had MORE time to party/hang out, never pulled an all-nighter or slept less than 8 hours*, and took part in some weeks-long road trips. Didn’t hurt him after graduation either as he worked a few years as an EE abroad before returning to MIT to complete a PhD in the field and is now the head of an engineering/tech firm in the NE.
- In contrast, he pulled a handful of all-nighters in HS and rarely slept more than 4-6 hours....and that's very good for Stuy students when I attended.
I would never send my kids to a high school where the average kid sleeps 4-5 hours. That’s joust so physically and emotionally unhealthy. Growing bodies and brains need rest.
While true for most, it can vary by individuals. Also there’s some schools of thought in some institutions/cultures that 4-5 hours of sleep should be enough for anyone.
This ranges from one society with the saying in the context of its college admissions “pass with 4, fail with 5” to accounts I’ve heard from former conscripts from the '40s till the '60s where some endured weeks of sleeping less than 4-5 hours/night for weeks during basic training and/or training exercises in the US armed forces.
@cobrat, Stuyvesant is almost impossible to get admitted to as a 10th grader now, with a mere 10 seats available. You were there a long time ago. Times change.
That’s the reason why I prefaced that comment with “Back when I attended”. I know it’s nearly impossible to get admitted as a 10th grader now. Then again, I understand it’s harder to get admitted in general now due to greater number of applicants compared to my day AND the fact Stuy reduced the 9th grade incoming class size by 100 seats several years after I graduated.
And we’re not really talking about outliers or their example. If a kid is under killer pressure at an A+ high school, there needs to be some adjustment. As parents, we do this dance all…the…time. That is, when we’e not caught up in that ‘rat race’ ourselves.
@VickiSoCal My DS is treated like an absolute freak for sleeping a good 6 or more hours every night. (Especially when he begs off movie night cause it’s past his(self imposed) bedtime 
) It’s crazy but there are honestly kids who think sleeping 2-3 hours a night is some kind of badge of honor.
There’s a reason why it’s harder to get admitted to Stuy, Tech and Science, as well as TH, as a 10th grader nowadays and it has to do with how the lower schools are constituted. When I was in school (I entered HS in the early 70’s), most NYC public schools were on the junior high model, with grades 7 - 9 together. Kids took the test for the selective schools in 9th grade and the entering classes in 10th grade were huge.
I attended a yeshiva, which was an N -8, school, so I took the test in 8th grade. My entering 9th grade class was only about 300 students and virtually all were from yeshivot, Catholic schools and other private schools. I don’t recall anyone from a public school attending in the 9th grade. The current model is the middle school model, with 6 - 8 together and all students entering HS in 9th grade together.
One thing I always wondered about but never learned the answer to was whether or not a kid who didn’t get in on the 8th grade test could re-test during 9th grade.
I also want to add that I didn’t feel incredibly stressed at that HS; I left because I was unhappy with the EC situation and the way that social science lovers were treated like second class citizens. I did very well in English and history, but got no recognition. There wasn’t even an honors history class in 9th grade.
I think that my experience goes to the very heart of the OP’s question. The HS, while excellent, was not the right place for me.
I also want to point out that there was much more competitiveness at my second, local HS, than at the original one. At my first school, every kid knew they were smart because we had all passed the test to be there. Even the kid ranked dead last in the class was smart and everyone knew it. All you had to say was I go to X school and people knew what it meant.
At the second school. the top tier of students was made up primarily of students who hadn’t passed the test for the selective HS and some who moved to the area too late to test. They all felt that they had to prove they were smarter than anyone else. I never saw any cheating at the first HS. At the second, cheating was rampant, particularly in math and science. I wound up dropping physics because I wouldn’t cheat so my grades wound up so low that I was barely passing.
The decision on which HS to send a child to (assuming that it’s not a one size fits all neighborhood school) should be made on the basis of more than just pure academics.
That was the case at my public magnet and others like it along with some academic/professional subcultures I’ve observed or experienced firsthand.
For instance, some tech startups and some of the NYC Biglaw firms I’ve worked in/visited had case teams led by partners who openly said “sleep was for sissies” and expected everyone…especially partnership track associates to work a minimum of 70-80 hrs/week. Any less and they’d considered that “slacking” and “demonstrating lack of commitment”.
I also read of a particularly notorious NYC BIglaw firm which pays a much higher starting salary for first year associates right out of law school…but holds them to a MINIMUM billable requirement of at least 3000 hours a year rather than the more common 2000-2400. Read there were at least 2 associates in their 20s and 30s dying from heart attacks due to the stress, sleep deprivation, and higher than normal expectations at that particular firm.
Upshot of this is some students and parents actually feel this is a good preparation for some professions/situations where one will be subjected to sleep deprivation for extended periods.
Personally…I don’t recommend it for most…but some can not only survive…but actually thrive in such an environment.