Is your daughter taking only DE courses…or is she taking some plain old courses at her high school?
There was a recent thread about this by a mother whose son had completed a number of DE credits at the community college closest to his house WHILE in hs and those did not qualify him for auto admissions to UMd. That mother was upset and wanted her son admitted because he’d completed the required courses, but while in hs, not after. The auto admit program is to get students from CC to 4 year schools.
Perhaps there should be a short FAQ for high school students who want to do pre-med in college and want to plan college / dual enrollment and AP or IB choices to avoid hurting their medical school chances before they graduate from high school:
- All college courses (including while in high school) and grades will count toward GPA for medical school applications. Due to competitiveness of medical school, grades lower than A in college courses will hurt your chances.
- AP and IB courses and grades in high school do not matter for medical school applications. However, AP and IB scores that are accepted by your undergraduate college as equivalent to entry-level courses can matter.
- Many medical schools do not accept or do not like to see pre-med course requirements fulfilled only with community college courses or credit from AP or IB scores.
- Taking a college course that repeats material from previously taken college courses or credit from AP or IB scores must be reported as a “repeat” on medical school applications, and looks bad to medical school application readers (looks like grade grubbing).
- Therefore, expect to need to take more advanced course work at a four year college for any pre-med course requirement that you may fulfill with community college courses or credit from AP or IB scores.
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New thread added: Short FAQ for high school students thinking pre-med, college / dual enrollment courses, and AP and IB courses / tests
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I do not think the AP is better rigor than CC. It is actually vice versa from our experience so far. Several pages above people said that CC classes are in between APs an CL. Now they dropped below college level. Anyone has their opinion.
If medical school is OK with 4 or 5 on AP Physics, it should be OK with A from CC.
DD will be taking only one each intro Bio, Chem, Engl and some general electives. Since she will be taking ton of Bio (way beyond required), and Chem (like 3 more semesters) in college anyway that should not be an issue. Initially we planned to take Statistics (Math school requirement) but I just found another Stat in her possible major. So she will take AP Stat in school next year without exam. That would be the only class apart from Internship (outside of school) that will be “connected” to school.
Here is what UMD lists about AP classes:
https://www.prehealth.umd.edu/new-page-2
I’m no pre-med expert but I imagine all this is discussion is not helpful now.
A student should take the most rigorous schedule they can. I agree, some schools offer AP, DE, and then others have kids at community colleges.
The focus should be on a rigorous schedule and getting into a school that meets the students needs - academically and financially for you.
I imagine advising at that time would then set you on the proper course and if some classes need to be repeated, you can do it there.
The other option - if you have a school in mind - get on their interest list and before you schedule your senior year, during one of your visits, maybe see if you can get a 30 minute session with a pre-med advisor to get some counsel on planning your senior year.
Just a thought…it just seems to me, cart before the horse although I completely understand pre-planning.
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I think rigor depends on the HS. In our school the AP classes are highly rigorous and are not permitted until junior year. There is a maximum number that is recommended per year. We also happen to have a very good CC, and the school has articulation agreements with many excellent colleges. The “top” students in our HS, however, always go the AP (or less commonly, IB) route…and not the CC route.
What I do notice about our students who go the CC route while in HS…is that they are not involved in HS activities because they are never around. No pep rallies, no prom, no clubs, no leadership at school, football games etc. They went to school at the CC…and they came home from school. It’s a very different social experience (at least at our HS) and one that is not for everybody.
Medical school is not OK with a 4 or 5 on physics (as you indicate). The COLLEGE might be OK, but NOT the medical school. My daughter, with premed intentions, had a spreadsheet with 30 medical schools and what they expected in terms of prerequisites (I stayed out of it). Many accepted maybe 2 AP classes…maybe….depending on the class. Again- I let her figure it out in terms of what was needed. Not one school accepted AP physics…not one. Nobody…not one medical school on her list of 30….accepted AP physics from HS as a prerequisite.
Again, I stayed out of it and she did all the research, but I specifically remember the discussion about physics.
I agree you are putting the cart before the horse right now. Your D just started her junior year of HS- let her enjoy it. The goal right now should be to make a list of affordable colleges and to eventually speak with a premed advisor, who will guide your daughter. You can look at medical schools if you want…and see for yourself how they view her classes. Maybe she can email a premed advisor at UMD and ask a few questions.
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At this point…you need to find a school that will give sufficient merit aid, has a good enough for you Jewish life, and has pre-med advising.
Right now…you have one school on your list that satisfies all those things…that you like. UMD.
I wanted our kids to be able to choose amongst multiple affordable acceptances.
My suggestion is you start looking more at affordability since you have stated that if a school is not affordable it’s not going to happen for this kid.
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Wow this thread is 400+ responses and seems to not be getting anywhere, imo.
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Please quit advising high schoolers who want to be pre-med if you’re not willing to brush up on what medical schools require. The advice you just gave could be deadly to their desired path.
Getting into med school is tough. Kids/parents don’t need to be getting inaccurate info from folks who don’t know what the process is.
You do not want repeated college level courses and you do not want CC pre-reqs as stand alones. It’s been stated by numerous posters who know what they are doing on this thread multiple times.
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Could you please clarify…did you say you are paying lots and lots for older kid to go to GA Tech as an OOS student?
Does this student have the same annual budget as the older sibling. It sounds like no.
Again I say…if affordability is the key ingredient in your college search…look at schools that will be affordable. Don’t add schools that won’t be.
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It’s getting nowhere because:
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Despite needing merit, the OP has a long list of academic and financial reaches that will not give the student merit. She just added Richmond- an expensive school with a 30% admit rate (a reach).
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The OP doesn’t seem to understand how medical schools will view the D’s classes (look at her comment regarding physics).
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The OP doesn’t seem to have a clear grasp as to how difficult premed is, how stressful the process is, what is expected of applicants, how hard med school is, etc.
I feel like the OP is simplifying the process, and then believing it. Personally, I find it insensitive toward those students who put in all of the hard work. I wish her well!
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Thanks for your very nice note.
If you noticed further, I said why not make an appointment at a possible school with a pre-med advisor when you are touring. I’m sure admissions would be glad to set it up with OP.
That way, the OP can hear directly from a target school itself - and it might give them more comfort on how they plan their senior year. They can even do this at multiple schools.
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What is your experience with med school so readers can contextualize. @Creekland you have a child who is a doctor I believe?
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None of us are experts (or even passably knowledgeable) about everything.
For instance, I know nothing about Jewish life on campus and Hillel activities. I can guess, but I really don’t know the levels of being a practicing Jew and exactly how Hillel might be important to different people. So, I don’t try to answer any questions about that, and leave it to people with more knowledge in that area.
I also don’t know much about the pre-med process. Thus, I’m more than happy to not speak on it and read and glean what I can from the comments of people more knowledgeable than me on that subject. It’s been informative to read this thread and learn from others who know about these subjects.
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Might I remind members of the forum rules: “Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place, and one in which members can post without their motives, intelligence, or other personal characteristics being questioned by others."
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/guidelines
Let’s move on from questioning each other’s credentials. Or at least move on from questioning them in a snarky way.
The point people have been trying to get across is that medical schools are NOT OK with a standalone AP Physics score of 4 or 5. Med schools expect that any AP Phys credit will be supplemented with one or more additional physics classes taken at the undergrad. (Because among other things, AP credit doesn’t earn a grade and AP science classes typically don’t confer any science lab credits. And labs are required for med school admission.)
Medical school adcomms want to be able to directly compare apples-to-apples so they want to see the actual grades a student has earned, not an AP score (which has zero direct correspondence to a grade earned at a university.)
Earning an AP credit is sort like taking a class P/F or C/NC. There is no grade given for any AP credit allowed. Medical school will NOT accept P/F or C/NC grades for pre-req classes so med school are extremely reluctant to accept standalone AP credits for key pre-reqs classes.
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My son is currently a first year resident doctor having just completed med school. Last year he “finished” his process with his Match on Match Day. (“Finished” meaning the med school part - there are always tests with being a doctor.)
Incidentally, he also interviews prospective med school students. He and I don’t often talk now about what they look for, but back in my advising high school students days (a couple of years ago), we did talk about the advice I should be giving them. He only interviews for his school, but I trust him TBH.
Other schools can differ, but I don’t think they often do other than how much they want to see research. His school does. Some others aren’t as interested in it.
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Like @Creekland I have two daughters who are now both doctors.
One is an attending who I literally see everyday. She helps interview med school applicants for a local med school (not the one she graduated from, but one near where she currently lives/practices). She also does clinical training of medical students and medical residents. We’ve talked any number of time about what she looks for in med school applicants/residents.
My other D is in her final year of residency. I see her several time a year (like last weekend!) and chat with her frequently. She interviewed applicants for med school when she was a senior med student. She now interviews applicants for her residency program.
I also know several individuals who are/were sitting members of the adcomms at the med school in my former home state. We have chatted from time to time about how the admission process works. One of those individuals developed the software that was used to manage and screen med school applications for the state med school. His software system was subsequently bought by AMCAS who licenses it for use by individual medical schools.
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That’s really interesting!
So when CC posters say that the first med school application cut is made via an algorithm, you actually know the person who developed the computer software behind that algorithm!
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