Smart kid low scores

Prep School Admissions
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<p>I believe the mean is 93%. Not the Median... SPS was the only school reporting their SSAT by the Median if my memory serves me well. Honestly, getting near or above that is good. I would say anything within 5 percentage points is not going to kill you. The lower the score, the more extras you need.</p>

<p>About "smart kids" scoring poorly...</p>

<p>I'll tell you a semi-quick story about a child with alot of "horsepower", but still couldn't seem to "outperform a lawn mower".
A child that had never attended a school with grades(A Montessouri style of learning) was very bright. He would read ahead in class and knew things that the teacher didn't teach based on deduction. He figured out devision by multiplying by numbers less than one and showed signs of promise. He tested at a college reading level(5th grade) and had an extensive vocabulary. 6th grade year he didn't get all As, his parents said, "Fine, just work hard." The 7th grade rolled around and he had all As for the first half. Eventually he dropped to having 2-3 Cs. INCLUDING MATH, his favorite subject. He was kicked out of the classroom around 10% of the time in several classes. Teachers said he had alot of horsepower, but he couldn't get shift into the right gear. Eventually he improved his grades in none honors/accelerated classes. He was bored and angry he couldn't be in the brighter class. He was told he was lazy, so he thought he was. OVERALL: He was doing above average at a prep school, top 40% of his class. On standardized tests he would show a "genius" level score, but it was "just good test taking" because he didn't have good grades. He was denied honor classes because of this, and his grades suffered even more. His parents realized that he had trouble doing homework and paying attention. They went to the Doctor and arranged these tests:
1. Impulsivity Test
2. Learning Disability Assessment
3. IQ Test(Two types)</p>

<p>His impulsivity test was a "perfect" example of ADHD and the "warning signs" were traits of the child.
The Learning Disability Addessment also screaming "ADHD".
His IQ test was the most troubling, his IQ test was designed to "phase out" the impairments of ADHD. His IQ score of 144 was in the top 99.865%. His physical age 12, but his mental age was around 17.
The psychologist administering the test simply said, "That is high enough to do whatever you want in life. So why can't we seem to get the grades in school?"
Turns out he had a strong mixture of NOT ONE, but TWO learning disabilities. He was given medication, but it was too late to save his 7th grade year. Lets skip ahead to 8th grade. He was in the bottom "tier" of classes. He was accused of cheating in math, because he didn't show work... A week later he was moved to the most advanced class, but that wasn't enough for him. 98% accumulative average in math speaks for itself. His 9th grade year was when he:
1. Was in the most Honors/Accelerated classes of any student in the grade
2. Bonded with teachers and got their support(His grades/happiness reflected this change)
3. Picked for many academic "representation" contests to represent his grade(and the grade above him)</p>

<p>He took the SSAT on 11/08/2008 and got a 99%. He still takes medication, but he has grown more "adept" at focusing. His IQ score was what proved to him that he was smart, and that is what started his climb.</p>

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<p>Phillips</a> Academy - Admission Office Announces Record High Yield of Admitted Students</p>

<p>Check out this article from May 2008 which states that 93% was the MEDIAN total score on the SSAT for last year's admitted class at Andover.</p>

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<p>That's strange. Everywhere else says its the average, including my interviewer, official FAQs, etc.</p>

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<p>To add a little perspective to the good student, good state tests / poor ssat test results ....</p>

<p>Talents searches like the Duke TiP program invite all high-acheiving (in the 95th percentile on state or nationally normed test, or nomination by school because of high GPA or participation in "gifted" programs) to take the SAT in 7th grade. Out of this pool of great students, only 10% qualify with a score of 550 - which is the high school senior average. Only 10% of the students who score well on state tests are really super exceptional in math and critical reading per the SAT.</p>

<p>I think the ssat is similar. Only the best students take the test - and that's who you are competing against. If state tests and grades were an adequate measure of exceptional talent, the ssat would not have been created and programs designed to serve intellectually gifted children would not rely on out of level tests to determine talent.</p>

<p>There is a difference between high-acheiving students and giftedness: as italian's story illutrates. </p>

<p>Good grades / high state test scores + low out of level tests = a dedicated, hard-working student. The kind of kid who will probably be successful anywhere.</p>

<p>Good grades / high state test scores + high ssat is pretty inconclusive. If a student is in public school, they could get good grades by simply showing up.</p>

<p>Poor Grade + high test scores could mean trouble. It has been well documented through research that highly gifted children do much worse when placed below their levels. Or it could mean a bad attitute!</p>

<p>Of course there are many other explanations for these patterns. A kid could just have a bubble sheet fiasco, or be sick, or freak at the sight of no 2 pencils; but if their other standardized tests are way above average, this is unlikely.</p>

<p>Both the ssat and the sat are ability tests - not achievement tests. They don't really test what you have already learned as much as your ability to figure things out and see through a problem, which is really not needed to get A's in most public schools.</p>

<p>Please don't flame me for any of this. I am not belittling grades or state test results. All I'm saying is that they measure something completely different from what tests like the ssat and sat do and that's why they exist.</p>

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<p>This happens more than you would think. Be happy it showed up now and not in the PSAT in 11th grade. One thing about the NCLB tests is that they often test the same things as are in the curriculum at school and teachers often spend time preparing students for the tests. So, they are more like tests in school, they are given in school setting, and kids with good grades normally do well on them. The admissions tests cover a broader range of material and require more reasoning.</p>

<p>If it were my child, I would have her tested as others have suggested, and hold off on applications for next year. One thing you might want to do, I heard this in an SAT context, not SSAT, is have your child take a practice math test section from one of the books under the normal way. Then, have her take a different math practice session, but do not provide any multiple choice answers (doesn't work for alll questions) make her figure out the answers, and give her more time, maybe 1 1/2 to 2 times the time. If she does much better the second way, more likely a testing issue than a reasoning one.</p>

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<p>It is probably good to focus on the types of questions that she got wrong. Now don't all laugh at me, but even now, I would find those analogies difficult. What is bizarre about that is that I am a lawyer by training, and I was a fabulous law student, and it is all about making analogies, in many areas. I think that test training for questions that don't necessarily make sense could help. I think I always wanted to read too much into the questions.</p>

<p>A funny small related digression: In college I signed up for a course that was supposed to be the biggest "gut" class (easy to those of you not familiar with this slang). It was Natural Resources. The test was true or false. When I got to the question "Bread comes from a store" I quietly got up, threw the test in garbage and RAN to the office that handles course drops. To me it was a philosophy question. Yes, bread comes from the store, but it also comes from the earth. I STILL don't know what the guy was driving at, or for that matter which answer he thought was correct. BTW, was it T or F? I am not sure if this deficiency has hurt me in life, but I tend to think not.</p>

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<p>Also, do you think your child might have been nervous? Something of this magnitude would definitely be nerve-racking. How is she performing on practice tests?</p>

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<p>anothermom: A had a geology final in college that was 50 true false and 50 multiple choice. Every true/false question was true and every multiple choice was answer was B. When I finished the test (I was the first to turn it in) I handed it to the professor and said, "You're sadistic." I got a 100 on it. By the way, just about every true/false question can be either true or false. Thinking people should not be required to try to answer them.</p>

<p>My point is that one should take tests like a machine. I got through 50 true T/F questions because I never lost track of what the silly teacher was trying to see what I knew. AND I recognized that he was trying to mess with me by making them all true. Forget overthinking, don't think at ALL! Be a machine....without feelings. Data in....data out.</p>

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<p>No flaming intended...</p>

<p>Does D really want to go to boarding school??</p>

<p>Maybe this is her way of trying to control her chances of being accepted to boarding school while maintaining her excellent academic record at a school where she is happy. You stated she has performed well on MCAS's...</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone for your contributions!</p>

<p>Still pondering.......yes, D does tend to over think. </p>

<p>I am having her tested. Her brother has a verbal IQ ( Wechsler test ) of 148. I think I would recognize if she was slow, despite the good grades. </p>

<p>I have my own theory of what happened. And yes, she wants very much to go to BS. Or any good school. She is used to being thrown a lot of work, but it is not all quality. Grade point average she is in the lead out of 200+ kids. </p>

<p>The public school, at least ours in Massachusetts, is training kids for the state test. Private day school kids, while the curriculum may or may not be more challenging, are being trained for the SSAT. This is I believe, a major contributing factor. If they didn't train for it they would go out of business, at least the ones I am familiar with. Of course they aren't advertising this - they don't have to. But they know the game, so to speak. </p>

<p>Home schooled children, especially those of bright and educated parents, are more apt to be taught to think independently, and be more genuinely involved with their studies. Consequently many home schoolers are getting a superior education.</p>

<p>Large public schools improve their ranking by feeding quantity at the expense of quality. My daughter wants to succeed in life, and recognizes that the habits she develops now are instrumental to achieve her goals. She has proved she can handle quantity, but has not had a chance to savor quality.</p>

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<p>LA Lit was replaced with Sci eng in D's school. Because of the state test - MCAS.
No vocab on MCAS. </p>

<p>On public radio yesterday news some state colleges are taking English off core requirements.</p>

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<p>Sadie2, your daughter's school is not teaching Language Arts? It's teaching Science & Engineering instead??</p>

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<p>They teach Language Arts. They used to require Language Arts/Literature as well. Now it is Science Engineering. They are beefing up the sciences in middle school and softening the reading and writing. Or so it seems.</p>

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<p>hello.
i realized that you said that kids at private day schools have an advantage with the ssat cuz they're preparing us for it...
thats really not truee. I go to a private day school and they didnt reallly prepare us at alll for the ssat. i think they had us do a 20 question math sheet from the ssat the day beforee for hw. they were just like "well, the ssat is this saturday. dont forget to study!" and some of us did poorly, and some of us did amazingly wel (btw not me haha). but yeah. thats just MYYY private day (and boarding school) some i guesss are different but thats just what i knoww</p>