Smith, Bryn Mawr, Mt. Holyoke, Scripps - safeties or low matches?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>The title says it all. I personally lean (at the moment) toward calling Scripps a low match due to the admissions rate and the other three high safeties. I have heard arguments either way, especially re: the Sisters.</p>

<p>1) High acceptance rate + self-selected pool + SAT percentiles = "safety" for high-stat students who show interest, because unlike their coed counterparts, these schools don't have the luxury to pick and choose among top students</p>

<p>2) Self-selected pool + focus on fit + historical prestige = "match" for anyone, because the Seven Sisters cannot be safeties (would like to hear reasoning behind this, other than prestige) and the acceptance rate is misleading</p>

<p>Thoughts? Debate away! My mind is easily swayed on this topic.</p>

2

<p>I have a hard time thinking of these as safety schools. Too expensive for one thing. Even if cost is not a consideration, still they are selective. Unlike many public universities they do value extracurriculars so predicting outcomes is not just a matter of formula. More than half of BMC applicants are rejected, presumably some of them with stats above the 75th percentiles.</p>

3

<p>All of the schools I listed claim to meet full need. Of course, whether a family’s EFC is affordable is another matter entirely, but I know people who were very satisfied by their FA packages. And merit aid is available at all of the above schools as well (around the half-tuition level).</p>

<p>What makes you certain that a significant number (an insignificant number being, well, insignificant) of BMC’s rejected applicants had stats above the 75th percentile? If you’re privy to such statistics, I’d love to see them. BMC’s acceptance rate is 49%, just barely under half; Holyoke accepted 53%. Scripps is lower at (I have heard) 31% this recent cycle due to overenrollment the year before and a very small target class size.</p>

4

<p>Nothing makes me certain. No, I’m not privy to such statistics and have not dug too hard for them. I wonder if they are available somewhere. Seems to me I’ve seen these numbers for some uber-selective schools.</p>

<p>Unless others can chime in, it may come down to that old Clint Eastwood question. Do you feel lucky? My youngest started out applying to just 5 schools, with a selectivity floor slightly higher than BMC (though I did not think of it as a “safety”). At the last minute we added an in-state public, even though he’d already been accepted EA to a school he really liked. That’s because we got nervous about money after the crash (though he wound up at the EA school anyway).</p>

<p>Claiming to meet full need and actually meeting it at your family’s comfort level may be 2 different things.</p>

5

<p>Take finances out of the picture; my family can afford–not comfortably, but willingly–our EFC with some leeway. I figure I can trust the Seven Sisters’ FA policies as much as I can Vassar’s or Oberlin’s or Macalester’s. I.e. By no means a guarantee, but high probability of success as our financial situation is not overly complex. I will be applying to my in-state flagship where I’ll be guaranteed admission, but it’s a last-resort choice. I really want an LAC (max 5000 students), but also intellectual challenge, which means that I can’t find a formula-admit safety. So the question becomes, are these schools safe enough?</p>

<p>I know Brown does break down acceptance by SAT range and (I think) class rank; I haven’t seen it for any other school. </p>

<p>Anyone else care to chime in on selectivity of these four schools?</p>

6

<p>Women’s colleges are more selective than the plain percentages would indicate, just like the University of Chicago. Self-selection, as you point out, is at play.</p>

<p>Of course, they CAN be “safeties”: almost any school can be a safety for someone. It all depends on you. </p>

<p>I don’t recall your stats.</p>

7

<p>I disagree that “almost any school can be a safety for anyone”; if it accepts <35% of applicants, I don’t think a school can be safe no matter the applicant.</p>

<p>My question is: if I (or anyone else) have stats above the 75th percentile in SATs and corresponding GPA/ECs (not extraordinary, but corresponding to that level of SAT scores), and sufficient interest is shown, can these schools be safeties?</p>

8

<p>I don’t think you can call any of them a “true” safety because it is not about a total numbers game. Mt. Holyoke and Smith are SAT optional, amd all of the schools in question take a really holistic process to admissions. </p>

<p>I think their focus is more on building a well rounded class that aligns with the institutional mission, than simply building a of high SAT/GPAs. This means that a young woman who has “lower stats”, a compelling story, who meets the schools institutional mission (because nothing trumps the institutional mission) would trump the high stat kid (I have had both situations happen on my caseload).</p>

<p>I do think that if the schools are statistically a safety for you (they were for my D also), then you have to work had to make sure, that they know you are not using them as a safety. this means, visit, interview, attend their open houses when they come to your neighborhood; really demonstrate interest.</p>

<p>At the end of the day all you can do is decide whether or not you are going to toss your hat in the ring. Once you do, you will have to wait and let the process play it self out.</p>

9

<p>Beware of Tufts Syndrome.</p>

10

<p>If I were you, I would sleep better at night with a school a few notches down in selectivity on that list. U Delaware, with the Honors Program option?</p>

11

<p>UDel-Honors is a definite apply, but I don’t like it for several reasons. I’m willing, not happy, to attend. However, I am pondering whether I should apply to a private LAC also notched down in selectivity–Knox. Hitch: my parents disapprove even more than they disapprove of women’s colleges.</p>

<p>Can these schools be considered high safeties?</p>

12

<p>My question is: if I (or anyone else) have stats above the 75th percentile in SATs and corresponding GPA/ECs (not extraordinary, but corresponding to that level of SAT scores), and sufficient interest is shown, can these schools be safeties? = Keilexandra.</p>

<p>YES. A safety is precisely what you describe vis a vis your stats. Though some kids are rejected by safety schools because they “smell” that you are not really interested in them and are using them. Thus its critical you pick schools you LIKE and can convey GENUINE interest, regardless of your stats.</p>

<p>There are over 2,000 colleges in the United States. To suggest you can pare it down to 10-12 PERFECT fit reach, match, safeties for each individual is absurd. The truth is, there are hundreds of schools where you would fit in, do well, etc etc. To a large extent you are just picking names out of a hat. So do your best to find schools that fit your financial goals/needs, your geographical goals/needs, your academic goals/needs and social goals/needs. It means adding names or deleting names that might well be superb schools and even excellent fits for you. </p>

<p>Engaging in minutiae only furthers the stress and anxiety and neurosis of college applications/admissions.</p>

<p>I had a professor in graduate school who used to exclaim when students complained too much, “You pays your ticket and you takes your chances!” Sort of in a PopEye mocking voice. We all laughed. And he was SO RIGHT.</p>

<p>While your parents are paying the tab, its unreasonable for them to be TOO INVOLVED in this process. Their job is to be somewhat generalists and prevent you from making a horrific decision, where you would be unhappy and fail. But otherwise to be supportive of your ideas, presuming they have the money to send you there. Some parents are absolutely WICKED and CONTROL freaks. Others are absolutely clueless and detached. Strive for the middle ground.</p>

<p>Its now crunch time for you (seniors.) Make your final list and pare it down to the 10-12 you WILL apply to. My general rule is 3 reach, 3 match and 3 or 4 safeties. You can add one or two to reach/match, but do not overload the reaches. They are reaches for you because it is indeed unlikely you get in, but worth a try. Matches are not slam dunks but clearly within the accepted profile. Safeties are slam dunks. NEVER PUT A SCHOOL ON YOUR LIST YOU WOULD HATE ATTENDING. As that may be how the Gods on Mt. Olympus rule…you may end up there. So only put on schools you can see yourself attending and being happy and thriving. Safety doesnt mean skank or lowlife or dump. It simply means that YOU are in the category of having the stats to be a slam dunk for admission. LOTS OF KIDS GO TO SAFETY SCHOOLS and have a great time and do exceedingly well, then go to graduate school somewhere else. </p>

<p>Some kids PICK safety schools because that is who offered them a whopper scholarship. If you do this correctly, there is no wrong answer.</p>

<p>Of course, if you get into a reach, you want to be able to afford it, so be careful.</p>

13

<p>and fwiw…I am NOT opposed/hostile to women’s colleges. I may differ with some of them on their political culture and agendas, but not because they are single sex colleges. In fact, I admire a number of women’s colleges and lament that the male only colleges have been changed because of political correctness. (Yes, I know that historically a high percentage of private colleges were all male…including even some flagship publics like William and Mary and UVa.)</p>

<p>If you specifically want a women’s college for that unique experience then I encourage you to apply there, be it Smith or Wellesley or Scripps ( a nice compromise being part of the Oxford like campus with Pomona, Mudd, Claremont, Pitzer), or Hollins or Sweet Briar or Rollins. Go where you will be happy and thrive academically and grow the most as a person. </p>

<p>P.S. St. Mary’s College is still thriving and is adjacent to Notre Dame University.</p>

14

<p>Thanks for the long and thoughtful response, ghostbuster. I am not specifically seeking a women’s college, but aside the gender attribute I am genuinely attracted to the schools that I listed for academic and (non-romantic) social reasons; but, the way the rest of my list falls out, it’s not really “worth” applying–because I have other matches that I like just as much, and are coed–unless I could consider them relatively safe bets for admission.</p>