<p>I can't help but laugh when I hear someone say how easy Smith is to get into. One must remember that they have removed half of the population (males) from the process. There are numerous young women who couldn't come close to getting into this fine institution. I have found (granted, I've only visited twice), both in my visits and my readings that Smith is a very challenging school. And yes, they do look for a particular kind of young woman. The students I have spoken to say how "fit" is very important at a school like Smith; but, isn't that true for all schools? Sometimes, after getting admitted, one might realize that this is not the right fit for them. There is nothing wrong with that. That happens everywhere (HYP & AWS). As far as stupid, ditzy girls; ditzy maybe, stupid, I would doubt. Remember that there are many young woman at this school, and one of the reasons for attending college in the first place is to become independent young adults who have to deal with making decisions, and finding their own direction. Smith, places a great emphasis on the advisor program, and I find that comforting. Remember, the grass isn't always greener...but if Smith just isn't right for you, then you should transfer to what you consider to be a better place, for you! But please, don't say Smith is easy to get into, as that makes it sound like a state school; and Smith is far from that!</p>
<p>Im not really sure how to describe what I think a "smithie" is like. Its really hard to put it into words. How would you describe smith students? and yourself? what was your high school experience like? </p>
<p>Lets talk high school here. What are smith students like? If you had to describe them in terms of high school students, where would they fit in? Where did they sit at lunch?</p>
<p>those really annoying, ditzy, air head cheerleaders who really didnt have a clue, and cared more about Ugg boots and cell phones that school?
The really smart, really nice but also really nerdy girls who didnt consider themselves nerds, but everyone else did?</p>
<p>Neither? Both? in between?</p>
<p>I was a cheerleader in high school, but my high school was atypical in that half of my cheerleading squad were also in my AP classes (of the seniors, most of us go to top colleges and universities. I don't know where all the rankings are, but yes, one of us was valedictorian and currently attends an ivy). I also sat with the "smart cheerleaders" at lunch, but didn't really seem to connect with them.</p>
<p>Honestly, Smithies would have sat everywhere. Some care about clothing and yes, Ugg boots (I own some, and like them because they're warm. A common thread on the jolt is something along the lines of "are Uggs stupid?"). As a whole, Smithies care about their grades but don't worry about what other students are getting, just themselves. I have friends who are somewhat obsessed with Paris Hilton and others who despise her. There are students who would have been nerds in my high school, but there are also Smithies who tend towards more of the "popular" stereotype. </p>
<p>Back to your "smart and driven" comment, earlier: I remember that, in my first year, some of the students in my house were obsessed with finding the perfect internship for the summer, and that's all they talked about. My best friends all seemed to spend the summer with a summer job at home (most which were the same jobs we worked in high school) but spent most of our time doing nothing at all. I'm only now, as a sophomore, thinking about putting together a resume and I might look at some internships for the summer, but right now I'm leaning towards spending another summer at home (but with a different job). Smith allows you to be driven because there are lots of oppurtunities to meet with people in different career paths, to take internships that might not be financially feasible otherwise (by using praxis), but I was not particularly "driven" before Smith and I'd still much rather play computer games (or watch movies or just hang out) then doing extra work. </p>
<p>It's a little late for you to do another visit or overnight before transferring in the spring, but consider looking at the admissions blogs. This year's batch just went live a few days ago (<a href="http://www.smith.edu/admission/blog20/prod/%5B/url%5D">http://www.smith.edu/admission/blog20/prod/</a>) but there's also last year's blogs (<a href="http://www.smith.edu/admission/blog/%5B/url%5D">http://www.smith.edu/admission/blog/</a>) that you could take a look at, too. Yes, there's the "admissions" aspect to it, but keep in mind that the bloggers are real students and aren't sugar-coating things.</p>
<p>A few short notes: I think Borgin's post captures the essential truth: there are a lot of different kinds of Smithies but none that I would call stupid. I've met at leat five dozen students over the past three years, where they've said more than just "Hi!", and while there are a few ditzes...okay, who among us <em>never</em> ditzes...the worst I can think of is that there are a few I would consider "shallow." But for any large group of people, that's to be expected...a mirror of "real life." But collectively, while as individuals they're all very different, they're the best advertising for <em>any</em> college I looked at in terms of being articulate, engaged, etc.</p>
<p>As with anything, the more you put into it, the more you get out of it. I think the kids who go home on most weekends are missing a lot...but I'd say that about any college. If you take the time to scope out the courses and profs before hand, you're much more likely to have a positive academic experience than if you take pot luck...and that's true of almost any college. </p>
<p>My D was toward the academic nerd part of the spectrum in high school and had maybe three-four dozen "peers" in graduating class of 750...at Smith, she can talk to virtually anybody and find it rewarding. I'd probably listened to about 30 Smith students speak at "prospect" parties before D applied and <em>my</em> sense was that I'd feel great if these young women were my D's peers at college. As <em>she</em> would say, "Not everyone is going to be my best friend, but there are a lot of different kinds of interesting people here." </p>
<p>It seems to be true that Smithies are not competitive with each other about grades & stuff but many are very competitive for themselves. D has been accepted into an intership program for next Summer/Fall and is looking to spend a semester in Budapest the following Spring. She was a high-achieving student in high school and has kept the same drive in college; some are a little more relaxed, pour themselves into EC's, etc. It takes all kinds.</p>
<p>Gah. I'm rambling. And I've got to run.</p>
<p>Here's another parent contribution for whatever it's worth.</p>
<p>I was originally leery of Smith for my daughter, thinking that it would be dominated by intensely intellectual, politically outspoken young women among whom she (a quietly smart and very sweet person) might feel intimidated. She, however, saw something in the college that felt right to her, and I have now become one of its biggest fans. I know there are students who are not as happy there as she is, but I also remember being unhappy at the same period in my life -- at one of the "hottest" colleges in the country. People can be unhappy at any college. </p>
<p>There's no question that unhappiness arises from unfulfilled expectations. If you are going off to college mainly to be free of your parents and to have a good time while you come into your own as an independent person, and, oh yeah, to pick up a degree so you can get a job afterwards, then Smith definitely isn't the right place for you. But if you want the chance (that will never come again in life) to explore all the things you're interested in, or passionate about, and, if you're lucky, hit upon the path or vocation that will take you through the rest of your life, without the distractions and complications of living in a co-ed environment, then Smith might be the place.</p>
<p>My daughter has made friends at Smith in a way she never quite did in high school, and what has struck me about them (and there are now quite a lot of them) is how nice they all are. I didn't really expect that. I was also surprised by how eclectic their interests are. And, oddly enough, one final common factor: most of them seem to be close to their parents.</p>
<p>So to those who are having doubts, give Smith a chance, but DO do a lot of thinking about what you're really looking for in your college experience before you commit.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for all your comments. Ive found many to be very helpful. </p>
<p>Its safe to admit that right now, im probably just being picky, and seeing that bad in everything. I was never a "stellar student" in high school, and it took two horrible college experiences to get me to become passionate about learning. I was NEVER one of those bright, "heady and nervy" women in the past, but now I am. I think. When I first visited Smith, I remember saying to my boyfriend "It isnt fair. All the GOOD schools are too hard to get into. Id love to go here. I deserve to go here! Ive worked so hard! Id never get in!" Now im in, and Im scared to go. whats the deal?</p>
<p>I was expecting NOT to get in, and I did. I keep thinking they made a mistake. Did this happen to anyone else? Do you know of anyone that perhaps was on the "average" end of the academic spectrum and had trouble keeping up with other Smith students?</p>
<p>Cheers and whistles for Pesto's post, esp. para's 2 & 3.</p>
<p>SC, it seems as if you "woke up" and wanted an intellectually stimulating college, have been admitted to one, and now are having cold feet, feeling or that you'll be over-matched or unworthy? Or that's how I'm reading it. Yes? No? Maybe?</p>
<p>Supercow,</p>
<p>I'm guessing you'll do fine. This may sound trite, but I really don't think they would have accepted you if they didn't think you could handle it. Clearly there was something in your application packet that made the admissions people believe in you. Just hang onto that thought. Keep remembering how stinky your first college experiences were and how hard you worked to get somewhere better, and then have faith in your own ability to rise to the occasion. Smith has a lot of support systems. If you get there and find yourself struggling, don't be afraid to seek help. It sounds to me as though you have the will, and with that the battle is half won. The rest is just hard work.</p>
<p>Supercow...HOORAY! for you! Nice to hear you say how you worked hard for it, and that you deserve it. Your experiences in life have simply taken you down another road...to me, that makes you different in a good way. Celebrate that, and don't look back. Smith is a great school, and appears to be lucky to have you.</p>
<p>Both issues TheDad brought up with regard to retention rates are true. But what isnt often discussed is the financial aid and international student component.</p>
<p>First let me address the gay issue. Smith took the word women out of the constitution and substituted it with student, so as not to offend the transgender students who dont associate themselves with being a female Never mind the fact its a Womens College Smith also just spent 30k to build a special club for transgender students and now have coed bathrooms --not because they are to be shared by men but because, again, transgender students dont consider themselves female Many students, gay included, are getting very tired of Smith trying to be everything to all people, catering to a very small minority, and in the process loosing track of what the colleges stands for and the principles it was founded. Students have joked, being straight and Caucasian is beginning to feel like were the minority. Some Smith students had enough and left. Alumnae are also beginning to get upset with the course Smith pursues, at times. This is coming from a Smith alumna board member I visited with last month while in Northampton
.
I believe what many are attempting to convey is, all colleges need to grow, adjust and adapt with the times. E.g. Amherst, Dartmouth, Vassar etc., etc., went co-ed 30+ years ago. But in doing so, dont lose your identity for the sake of political correctness or from coercion and pressure from certain groups.</p>
<p>Smith isnt alone in tying address the issues of today. I have aunts who are alumnae of Mt Holyoke and there is a great deal of friction regarding many of these issues there too, but not to the extent they seem to be at Smith.
TD brought up the gay issue, and Im only attempting to clarify it might not be as much a gay issue as one thinks. Smith has always large gay contingency but only recently has a certain portion of that population effected the entire campus.</p>
<p>Let me be clear, Im not in any way expressing agreement with the aforementioned sentiments. Im simply relaying comments from conversations Ive had with students, alumnae and relatives.</p>
<p>TD is correct; the lack of men is another reason some students leave or dont return. However, as my daughter has mentioned numerous times, and again now on the phone because she just called (I thought I would make sure I had my facts straight, so I asked :) She said Amherst opens their arms to Smith students and theyre allowed in parties for free. The same women complaining about the lack of men are the same ones who are too lazy to take the bus to Amherst to meet some Nuff said on that matter -lol</p>
<p>Smith has 10-15% of more students on financial aid than Amherst, Dartmouth etc. It s much easier to enjoy college, keep up with classes and homework, and find time for extracurricular activities (adding to the quality of college life) if youre not washing dishes or doing another job because youre on work study Also,in addition to their campus jobs many of the aid students work off campus during the semester and in the summers so they can have a few extra dollars to enjoy going into town or out with friends, etc. This can be an enormous burden on time and energy. And many dont have the extra spendable dollars, which can cause an emotional strain. A portion of parents find after the 1st semester or year the financial obligations on their part arent as easy to meet as they anticipated.
Numerous students drop out or dont return for financial reasons</p>
<p>I goes without saying; students at other colleges have the same issues. However, with 10-15% more students on aid, it mathematically stands to reason that many more students will show up in the percentages of 1st years failing to return.</p>
<p>Foreign student enrollment is also higher by 1-2% over Amherst, et al colleges. Being 8k miles from home and in a different county can lead to many students who become stressed, feel out of place, or have language barrier issues. I know of one girl from Asia who wanted to go home after only 4 weeks because she was unable to assimilate and had language problems. Again, happens on very campus. But with more exchange students, there is more likelihood of a greater number (in percentages) not returning or leaving, subtracting from the overall 1st year retention rate.</p>
<p>Smith is also notoriously known (in a positive vein) for admitting students who arent statistically as qualified but show great promise. 1% of the 1st years had a high school gpa of < 3.0.
While I believe its admirable of Smith to care more about the student than the rankings, admitting what some consider marginal students adds to the lower retention rate. Im not criticizing Smith. I happen to believe in their philosophy. However, with the gamble comes the certainty of a lower retention rate. Do I believe its worth it if even one student thrives, succeeds and graduates? You bet!</p>
<p>[and now are having cold feet, feeling or that you'll be over-matched or unworthy]</p>
<p>Wow, sounds like me when I discovered the woman I was wooing at a party, and would later become my wife, was a Smith alumna.</p>
<p>TheDad...you said it perfectly. I worked hard, I felt worthy enough to go there when I applied (more than worthy) and now that I've been accepted, I'm scared. What if they were wrong? I didnt have to submit my SAT scores as a transfer. If they saw those, would the reject me?
Pesto and BJM8, thanks alot for your encouragment. I appriciate it and will consider it while making this decision.</p>
<p>If I accept, and go to smith in Jan. will I have trouble? The interviewer told me that it was very hard to adjust mid-year, as Im sure it is with any school. I sort of wish I had waited till the fall, but I guess its too late for that.</p>
<p>Did you know or anyone you know have trouble adjusting to smith at first? Id like to think that I just have cold feet and it will wear off, but then again, I thought that about my first school.</p>
<p>Also, Im still not clear on this. Some people have told me that very few people transfer out of Smith while others tell me that alot of people do. whats true?</p>
<p>Another thing...how hard IS smith? I mean, honestly...could you compare it to anything? Are there ALOT of papers to write and tests to study for?</p>
<p>[The interviewer told me that it was very hard to adjust mid-year, ]</p>
<p>The same woman who was disrespectful and instead of being supportive stressed only the negative aspects of trying to transfer? Who cares what she said!!! Entering midterm isnt a problem in the slightest. Students have been doing it for over 100 years. Middlebury has a Feb fresh class and they assimilate perfectly fine. So will you. Instead of looking at the negative aspects, why not have some faith in yourself both academically and socially, and give the Smith students more credit for having compassion by helping you feel accepted, wanted and equal to them on an academic basis.
If you dont believe the Smith students and administration wont help you in any way possible to make your transition pleasurable, then maybe you dont belong there.
YOU have to believe youll fit in, or not matter what any else does you wont.
If I was harsh, Im sorry. But youre far too bright to be putting yourself through this emotional roller coaster. Would you feel better if I arranged a small party when you arrive so you can meet some great students? I can make it happen :)</p>
<p>Fwiw--my daughter is the 3rd generation to attend a womens college and most of my friends are Smith alumnae going back more years than I care to say. Im not new to the Smith college experience.. Trust me, I know the kids at Smith. Youll have great time and everyone will help you succeed far beyond your dreams</p>
<p>SC, I wouldn't worry about transferring in at mid-year. Just do it.</p>
<p>You're capable, else they wouldn't have admitted you and Smith de-emphasizes SAT scores even for first-year applicants.</p>
<p>I suspect that several of us could pool our efforts and make sure that you had a great welcoming party that embarrassed the hell out of you. :)</p>
<p>Finally, as for how hard: in many classes it doesn't appear that hard to get B's but getting A's will stretch you. Which, come to think of it, is what's been said about Stanford.</p>
<p>[Some people have told me that very few people transfer out ]</p>
<p>Whats quite a few? They loose 60 or so students the 1st year. Big deal. And if you read my post, youll see many, if not most, werent transfers, per se, but students who didnt return for various reasons. 50% of the students in the county who apply to med school dont make it. So what. 50% do. Its the trite analogy of the glass being half empty or half full. There is no nexus between what other students do and what kind of experience youll have.
What do you care if some students are unhappy and leave as long as youre one of the 90% that have found their niche? </p>
<p>[I suspect that several of us could pool our efforts and make sure that you had a great welcoming party that embarrassed the hell out of you.]</p>
<p>That thought entered my mind TD , but I didnt want to speak for your daughter and minis --lol</p>
<p>Like TD said, just do it. Hell were turning into a Nike commercial</p>
<p>The difficulty depends on your classes. In one of my first year seminars I had to read a book a week; in other classes I've had five books of comparable lengths for the entire semester. There's a two week add/drop period at the beginning of the semester you should take advantage of--attend the first session of more than just four classes, get the syllabus, look at the expected workload and decide which ones you're interested in and are willing to do the work for an which ones might not be worth it. </p>
<p>Lots of students transfer mid-year. You'll meet them at orientation, and you'll be able to meet and befriend current students who have been on campus for interterm right away, too. Smithies are, generally speaking, very friendly, and you'll have lots of chances to get involved and meet more people once you've settled in.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I had a thought while out shopping after my last post:</p>
<p>Supercow, put your hands atop the vents of your computer case so that you can feel the warmth of our sincerity as I, and any other passing Smith parent or student says the following aloud and you feel it come through you screen:</p>
<p>Supercow, you are smart enough to succeed at Smith. You worked hard to redeem your habits and be able to get to a college like Smith. You belong at Smith. You are welcome at Smith. </p>
<p>Now sign those friggin' acceptance papers, turn them in, and we'll e-mail or PM you the addresses, screen names, etc. of those you should meet.</p>
<p>Amen.</p>
<p>Btw, I know someone who got into Smith off the waitlist. She had a spectacular internship in investment banking with a major NYC firm this last summer and has been invited back for next summer. Work hard and as much good stuff will fall to you as to those whose high school performance was stronger than yours...that doesn't matter anymore.</p>
<p>[Now sign those friggin' acceptance papers, turn them in,]</p>
<p>If for no other reason, do it for me. I need an excuse to throw a party in January. Its a slow month -lol</p>