<p>RLT...clear your pm's box. Cannot send anything over.</p>
<p>{{ Our small gaggle then went on a tour with two tour guides...I found out later that normally they have one tour guide per family, this being an exception due to the crowd present for Spring break. This propensity for individual attention was marked throughout our entire Smith experience; Ive noted one highlight below. }}</p>
<p>This is incredibly true. I never took a Smith tour as a prospective, but I give them now. Last week I gave a campus tour to maybe 20 people who showed up as a large number of schools seemed to have last week off, after receiving a frantic email five minutes prior as no one was signed up to give a tour at that time. I've never had such a big group, even on official campus visit days! Usually I give a tour to a family or a small group if it happens to be a busy day at Admissions.</p>
<p>We went on two tours at separate times, and both times we were the only family being toured. Lots and lots of personal time, and all questions answered. Awesome!</p>
<p>{{But Smith will not be a good fit for students who arent open-minded and tolerant.}}}</p>
<p>I wish the student who spit on a woman who represented the Republican club because she disagreed with her views (I won't post their names) during a debate had read something about being open-mined and tolerant before enrolling.</p>
<p>It's interesting to read my trip report and think that this was months before D submitted her apps, etc. It recaptures the strong impression Smith made on us.</p>
<p>===</p>
<p>RLT, I don't condone the spitting. But I've heard through channels--not my D, who wasn't there--that some of the criticism of "The Vagina Monologues" was pretty ugly as well, though short of the physical. Not having been there myself, I don't know the real story and this may be a "Rashomon" incident.</p>
<p>Smith would be a tough campus to be perceived as anti-feminist at.</p>
<p>Other, ah, more culturally moderate/conservative stances don't seem to inspire much reaction. My D's regular participation in her mainstream/traditional religious community has not provoked any comment. To the contrary, several of her non-religious friends showed up in support as witnesses when she was taking a significant milestone in that faith tradition. I think that may have touched her more than any other interpersonal experience she's had at Smith...and she's had a lot that she's liked.</p>
<p>{{that some of the criticism of "The Vagina Monologues" was pretty ugly as well, though short of the physical}}</p>
<p>{{Smith would be a tough campus to be perceived as anti-feminist at.}}</p>
<p>Where did you get the idea the student was anti-feminist? Not true.</p>
<p>And even if she is, I dont a care how critical, for whatever reason, someone was of the VM, there is <em>no</em> excuse for spitting on someone. Many students are extremely upset with the transgender group, but Id also be furious if anyone so much as sneezed on one of them during an argument or debate.</p>
<p>{{Other, ah, more culturally moderate/conservative stances don't seem to inspire much reaction. My D's regular participation in her mainstream/traditional religious community has not provoked any comment.}}</p>
<p>Absolutely true!! Smithies have been very kind to my daughter as well even though they might not agree with her religious beliefs, which is why I was so p*** about the spitting issue and how it made the college appear. Dont you think students at other colleges or their hometowns got wind of it? </p>
<p>On a lighter note, Im with Bjm8. I want a treadmill with a TV too. :)</p>
<p>"Last week I gave a campus tour to maybe 20 people who showed up as a large number of schools seemed to have last week off, after receiving a frantic email five minutes prior as no one was signed up to give a tour at that time. I've never had such a big group, even on official campus visit days! Usually I give a tour to a family or a small group if it happens to be a busy day at Admissions."</p>
<p>Borgin: Last week was February vacation week for schools in eastern Mass. and possibly for other areas in New England. Hence the crowds.</p>
<p>Maybe the Admissions gang should take note of the date for the future so as to make the most of the opportunity to show off the college during a week when the public schools are off while the colleges are on. I expect the crowds will only keep getting bigger. As a matter of fact, I've just posted a plug for the extra importance of visiting women's colleges like Smith on a thread in the Parents' Forum (the trend of which is to question the importance of visiting colleges at all), and my comments about the significance of visiting Smith were immediately reinforced by TheDad and Mini (thanks, guys!). I worry that there are a lot of negative stereotypes of Smith out there, and while some incidents on campus would seem to verify the stereotypes, it's my belief that they don't reflect the larger student body. Smith is one college where a visit makes a huge difference in overcoming preconceived notions and in publicizing, beyond what can be conveyed in PR lit, the myriad ways in which the college supports the endeavors of its students . At least three Smith parents (and their daughters) here on CC were utterly seduced by Smith after their visits to the campus so I hope you all can give thought to ways in which you can continue the trend.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Smith is one college where a visit makes a huge difference in overcoming preconceived notions and in publicizing, beyond what can be conveyed in PR lit, the myriad ways in which the college supports the endeavors of its students . At least three Smith parents (and their daughters) here on CC were utterly seduced by Smith after their visits to the campus...
[/quote]
Pesto, I hope I'm one of those three parents you eluded to, because we were utterly seduced during our visits. I have mentioned before that Smith was on our radar screen, but probably not very high on it; until...we visited. It blew us away! Not just the beauty of the campus, which is a plus; but more importantly by the intelligent women who are part of it. We found Smithies to be intelligent, articulate, caring, and truly in love with their school. Money can't buy that. The support that Smith provides for it's student body is second to none IMHO, and the housing system is just as good. For my D it was an easy sell; she knew right away it was the perfect place for her. Strong sciences, great ballet classes, no core requirements, wonderful advising system, and many dining options. Yeah...we're quite happy with her choice!!!!</p>
<p>{{At least three Smith parents (and their daughters) here on CC were utterly seduced by Smith}}}</p>
<p>Are you me counting among one of the parents? I was seduced by a Smithie :), not Smith, and a number of years latter along came baby Smithie
As they would say, the rest is history. Otoh- who seduced whom depends on whose interpretation you want to believe.</p>
<p>But youre absolutely correct, students need to visit. If it were not for the wonderful women who were at the info. table when I dragged my daughter back to the campus for second visit she wouldnt be a Smithie today-- but not for the reasons most suspect. As a legacy, the kido stated numerous times I want my own school
She was a bit afraid she would miss out 'on the college experience' as well by not attending a co-ed college. But she has come to discover attending Smith offered her myriad opportunities /no/ other LAC or Ivy she was accepted or applied to would ever have been able to do. Granted, having to trek over to Amherst etc. to meet-up with her male friends can get old sometimes;however, its a small price to pay for all the wonderful experiences, connections and amazing professors Smith has bestowed on her, as well as my wife when she was a student.</p>
<p>Maybe now, TD, always the diplomat, as opposed to me the bomb thrower, will understand why I become so beligerant when someone tarnishes the Smith rep.
Smith and the amazing women it produces have been part of my life for more years than Im willing to put in print.</p>
<p>{{RLT, I don't condone the spitting. But I've heard through channels--not my D, who wasn't there--that some of the criticism of "The Vagina Monologues" }}}was pretty ugly}}</p>
<p>Read about it yourself. It made Luces webpage and was chronicled in the Smith College Sophian</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cblpi.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.cblpi.org/</a></p>
<p>Ferrara doesnt sound like an anti-feminist to me--- because she isn't... See what I mean rumors and misinformation?</p>
<p>Early on, Ferrara sent shocked murmurs through the filled-to-capacity Carroll Room by boldly declaring, "The play itself is almost advocating rape." She was referring to a monologue that describes sex between a 16-year-old abuse survivor and another woman who is 24. "What I find most terrifying is it says this is the way she learns to love her vagina," Steinke said. "So basically it says the way to get over abuse is to engage in statutory rape."</p>
<p>Pesto I enjoyed your comment on the parents forum regarding meeting Republicans. Was that for me?- LOL</p>
<p>Pesto wrote, And, yes,there IS a healthy contingent of Republicans at Smith (we might not have believed it had we not seen them in person on one of our visits)."</p>
<p>Regardless of your views, it was refreshing to see your honesty, as well being an excellent post.</p>
<p>I was amazed that a representative of the republican club would have been spat on at the vagina monologues debate without a campus uproar, so last night I emailed a girl I know (the one who's both on a class cabinet and the executive board of the college republicans, and is currently running for MA state senate)--we're both on class cabinets and had a class together last semester. </p>
<p>Her response: "I didn't hear anything about that, which makes me believe that it didn't happen - at least not to one of the girls in the club. There was a spitting incident in the fall of 2004 though- perhaps people are overzealous to label Republicans as victims of spitting."</p>
<p>Obviously, it's never ok for anyone to be spat on, but just wanted to clear up the confusion.</p>
<p>Also, just wanted to weigh in on republicans on campus (and I'm not going to use the "some of my best friends are republicans!" line. I know many of them, we get along fine, but with the exception of one with whom I hang out regularly--we did the same jya program and are both applying to law school--, we just don't have much in common in terms of our friend groups or what we like to do for fun). </p>
<p>I'm sure being a republican on campus isn't easy--forgetting the other students for a second, most of the professors are very liberal and often make it known in ways that I (even as a democrat!) dislike. Most students are tolerant of differing political views--and I wish the administration went further in dealing with those who aren't, in the same way they deal with issues of racial or ethnic intolerance--but let's face it, it's hard for many adults to have serious political discussions without resorting to ad hominem attacks and it's not any easier for 18-year-olds. </p>
<p>I think many republicans who come here do so in part because they want to prove (to themselves or others) that they can be successful here and that their ideas are valid. This means that while many more liberal students are politically apathetic, most conservatives are more engaged--probably also a simple matter of finding like-minded people at Smith Reps. meetings and wanting to become a part of the org, while Dems. on campus don't have to go to a meeting to find allies. This doesn't mean that Smith dems doesn't do anything, though--we were named national chapter of the year last year and i'd be glad to talk more about what activities the dems did. Also, members of the club have worked for representatives from CA, IL, NJ, and more, interned on Congressional committees, at NOW, and with the president's council on economic advisers, worked for Ben Bernacke, etc. I don't think it's necessary to denigrate one group of Smithies' achievements to make a point about anothers'.</p>
<p>It's not easy to be in the minority of any sort, anywhere, and smith is no exception. Even without overt harrassment, it can be exhausting for students to feel the need to constantly explain themselves, act like an 'ambassador' for their group, and listen to people with different viewpoints being constantly validated by those with the same perspective (I believe these reasons are quite similar to those given by students who choose to live in ethnic or religous or sub-free housing offered at some colleges). But I'm glad there are Republicans on campus and I wish there were more.</p>
<p>BJM8 and RLT:</p>
<p>Make that FIVE parents (and associated daughters) who were seduced by Smith as a result of visiting it! When I made the original comment about "three" parents, I had only myself and TheDad and Mini on record as visit-seduced parents (see original posting in the Parent's Forum). I didn't want to speak for you (although I figured, judging from your posting history, that you'd probably both jump on the bandwagon too). (Which you did.) </p>
<p>Re Republicans:</p>
<p>Stacy: What an EXCELLENT post about what it is like for Republicans at Smith and what it should be like. I wish you could publish it in some venue where it could occasion more soul-searching among the Smith community. While I'm not Republican myself, I think it's important for everyone to face up to the fact that we live in a nation that's split pretty much down the middle along voting lines, and it would be to everyone's benefit if liberal and conservative alike could get to know each other and respect each other better. I'm so tired of the incivility that representatives of both political persuasions are guilty of.</p>
<p>Oddly enough, it was seeing the table for the Republican Smithies at one of our visits that swayed me as much as anything else in Smith's favor. I thought, phew!, they're not monolithically liberal after all.</p>
<p>Stacy- I can truly asset your thoughts on the Republicans on campus and why they chose to come to Smith through my best friend at Smith:</p>
<p>"I'm sure being a republican on campus isn't easy--forgetting the other students for a second, most of the professors are very liberal and often make it known in ways that I (even as a democrat!) dislike. "</p>
<p>Though she said over and over again that she wanted to major in History but none of her friends (and I) did not realize that she truly wanted to major in Government. She dreamed of using her Praxis to intern with a Christian lobbying group that is socially conservative. She adored Professor Miller and wanted to take a class with him had she stayed for another semester simply because she spoke with him and found many of his views appealing. She found comfort in him because he was a conservative. At first, she could not bear the idea of taking a government class because the department was wholly liberal and heard of professors preaching their liberal beliefs. I personally took International Relations with Greg White and my, he was not afraid to show his views. He even allowed his liberal students talk on forever without consideration that some conservatives might eventually become uncomfortable. Out of her influence, I personally sent him an e-mail telling him that he needed to cut down the students' response time, especially if they are very liberal and redundant. I told him that I was there to learn, not to be swayed by liberal attitudes (though I am liberal on foreign policy like everyone else). Anyway, she was pretty uncomfortable and eventually changed schools to find a more conservative political science department. </p>
<p>I think many republicans who come here do so in part because they want to prove (to themselves or others) that they can be successful here and that their ideas are valid. This means that while many more liberal students are politically apathetic, most conservatives are more engaged--probably also a simple matter of finding like-minded people at Smith Reps. meetings and wanting to become a part of the org, while Dems. on campus don't have to go to a meeting to find allies."</p>
<p>That was HER answer to anyone's question (if they asked NICELY) why she, a conservative, wanted to come to Smith. She was always searching for acceptance for her ideas, they were much better backed-up than most liberals' answers. She dreamt of students becoming better educated at conservatives' agenda through her point-of-view (rather than the media) and be more objective in their thoughts. As RLT said, she didn't have the faintest idea how far-leaning Smith was before she actually came. In retrospect, if she did, she probably would have found the task too daunting for her and gone to Moho.</p>
<p>I think reading one issue of Smith Sophian is not enough. </p>
<p>Oh, add another parent who was seduced by the Smith campus and Northampton- my mom!!!! And me... I loveeed the houses and the gym.</p>
<p>PS- the thought that top students might not apply to Smith, I forgot about that aspect because I'm so used to seeing smart, motivated women coming to Smith!</p>
<p>}{{{"I didn't hear anything about that, which makes me believe that it didn't happen - at least not to one of the girls in the club."}}}}</p>
<p>Stacy, it did happen this year. I know who it was. I have been asked not to post the name. It does need to be taken in context however. It was one incident against one student and doesnt reflect Smith as a whole. If anyone has followed the escapades at Williams, Smith appears to be a convent. The fact that it also happened in '04 disturbs me though. I dont remember that.
And to be honest, Ive never heard of a conservative or Republican student being spit on at /any/ other LAC or U in or out of a debate. Nuff said about this.</p>
<p>Im not advocating the Republicans on campus arent accepted. All who Im familiar with have many friends of every persuasion and are treated with dignity and respect. Are there some heated discussions and debates? You bet. But thats what a college education is intended to include. Which brings up your other point; yes, after women arrive at Smith, it is a great venue to discuss, attempt to persuade others, or even validate that ones views have merit to begin with. I certainly know what I believe today isnt the same as it was ** years ago. I believed dating multiple women was as a superb idea when I was in my youth. After some persuasion by a Smithie, I realized the errors of my ways. :)
My hope is Republicans, Democrats, and those in the middle understand college is a brief moment in life and the views that hold true for them today might easily become polar opposite in the years ahead. And the student one so bitterly disagrees with today could very well be their ally of tomorrow. How many Democrats became Republicans after they moved into the 35% tax bracket--lol</p>
<p>I have an alumna friend, ( she is a legacy also) who ** yrs ago refused to even consider dating, much less marry, anyone not an Ivy, Stanford etc. alumnus with a VP, MD, etc title. Her father and brothers were all Ivy alumni. Prestige was very important to her. Fast forward a number of years and soul searching. She married an incredible man with no college degree, much less from an Ivy. Priorities and views change. Thats all I want any student and my children to understand. Defend your views with vigor and intelligence but do it with respect, kindness and with the thought theres <em>a chance</em> you might someday actually agree with your adversary. Dont burn the proverbial bridge.</p>
<p>{{I think many republicans who come here do so in part because they want to prove (to themselves or others) that they can be successful here and that their ideas are valid.}}</p>
<p>With all due respect, 16 and 17 year old kids dont choose a college because they want to prove (to themselves or others) that they can be successful here and that their ideas are valid. I work with students as an avocation. Students of Smiths caliber choose a college first and foremost because it's where they believe they can get the best education possible and will give them the best chance at Law, Med, and Grad school. Isnt that a partial reason you chose Smith? The college is a great springboard to some of the best Law schools They also attempt, sometimes with limited knowledge, to choose a college they believe they can fit in, be happy and acquire new friends who believe as they do, whether it be religious, political or ability and desire to partake in sports. </p>
<p>While some more conservative students might <em>not</em> choose Smith because of its reputation, just as a student might not choose to matriculate to Dartmouth because of its very prevalent Greek scene (I know one)- no student in their right mind purposely chooses a college they feel they will be unwelcome or harassed. Why do you think a large percentage of gay women apply to Smith, Wellesley, and Holyoke et al. instead of Middlebury, Colgate or Bowdoin? Fwiw--gay men are unfortunately not always felt welcomed at Midd et al colleges either.</p>
<p>Many women who apply to Smith havent the faintest idea what the political life is like at Smith, (the majority get a quick tour, if they visit at all) except for the fact its mostly liberal like almost all the LACs and Universities.
Even after Sara visited and did an overnight, she was surprised by the extremism, in her view, at Smith. Isnt that why she wants to transfer? No, students dont know in many instances what to expect when they arrive at Smith.
TMP transferred too. Don't you think loosing 10% of the 1st years is a travesty?</p>
<p>If a conservative or Republican desires to prove they can be successful, or that their ideas are valid, they dont need Smith. They can accomplish that purpose at myriad colleges.</p>
<p>I certainly didnt intend to belittle the Democrat club. I apologize for my very poor wording and insinuation. It just strikes me as funny so many women are members but very few have the initiative to attend meetings where future events and projects are discussed. But thats like life. Of all my youngest daughter friends, only about 1/10 of the parents do the driving to take the kids skiing, the movies, allow sleepovers (read loud noise the entire night) The rest of the parents simply sit back and let us do the work, as enjoyable as it is my opinion</p>
<p>{{She adored Professor Miller and wanted to take a class with him had she stayed for another semester simply}}</p>
<p>Prof Miller had to sue so to keep his job and get tenure at Smith.</p>
<p>The story began about two years ago, when Miller's department voted five to three against granting him tenure. Miller, who has taught at Smith since 1996, had half a dozen publications in scholarly journals at the time and a book, Game Theory at Work, published by McGraw-Hill. After getting a positive pre-tenure review, Miller was amazed that he would be denied tenure -- effectively fired from his job. In the time after his pre-tenure review, he thought he had been very productive in terms of his scholarly writing. But suddenly his department was questioning the quality of his work, questioning the level of his publications. It didn't make sense to him. But he thought he knew why.
Miller believes it was the fact that he had taken political positions in conservative magazines that had influenced the vote against him. They fronted concerns about his scholarly writing, but Miller thought he detected an undertone. In letters written to the Committee on Tenure and Promotion, two professors cited Miller's criticisms of academia in explaining their No votes. One of the articles referenced was "Campus Colors," an article Miller wrote for the National Review Online in December 2001. In that article, Miller complains of a decided anti-Iraq war stance on college campuses, muses on why professors are "mostly left wing," and calls for Republican governors to investigate whether departments are discriminating against conservative professors. Among his assertions in the article, he says, "Practically the only way for a women's studies professor to get a lifetime college appointment is for her to contribute to the literature on why America is racist, sexist and homophobic."
<a href="http://www.valleyadvocate.com/gbase/News/content?oid=oid:99647%5B/url%5D">http://www.valleyadvocate.com/gbase/News/content?oid=oid:99647</a></p>
<p>Prof Miller is a great professor in many students opinion.</p>
<p>This is my idea of being open-minded. :)</p>
<p>They Can't Write Enough About Miller; Love 'Em or Dish 'Em
by Advocate Readers - March 10, 2005 </p>
<p>Letters to the Editor
I label myself a liberal for all the usual reasons, yet read with interest and, yes, understanding and some sympathy, Andrew Varnon's article about Jim Miller's fight for tenure as a conservative academic in one of countless colleges that do seem to me to be dominated by liberal rhetoric and ideology.
I have seen Professor Miller teach. I adamantly disagree with many of the things he says. Other statements I find perplexing. Some **** me off, some I dismiss as attempts to be outrageous and provocative, and others are interesting and compelling. As a result, I think about issues in ways that I might not in, say, in a women's studies class taught by an ultra-liberal feminist who shares all of my opinions. I think there is a tendency to forget that colleges exist for the purpose of educating people, and that education should be an active, challenging process. It should make students uncomfortable, not complacent and self-righteous. If students don't agree with someone like Jim Miller, they can learn to argue with him articulately and intelligently.
The implication seems to be that students with a liberal mindset are somehow vulnerable to conservatives like James Miller, and that they must be protected from the opinions of right-leaning academics. In my opinion, any effort to keep colleges "safe" from conservativism will make college graduates more vulnerable in the "real world" once they're in it -- unless, that is, they plan to become college professors.
K. Malley
Greenfield </p>
<p>I think my D may have benefited from living where we do, where being a Democrat marks one as possibly not being "progressive" enough. I'd say more but there are suddenly many demands and time is short. Anon.</p>
<p>"And to be honest, Ive never heard of a conservative or Republican student being spit on at /any/ other LAC or U in or out of a debate."</p>
<p>Oh, dear. I am NOT going to post what happened to several students at my alma mater's gay bash weekend, or to a Latino student walking home from the science labs one night, or.... But, honestly, I don't know if they were Republicans.</p>
<p>(you can research it for yourself if you choose...)</p>
<p>But, to be clear, as far as I am aware (and I am wiling to be corrected), Jim Miller NEVER sued Smith College, and the thought that he was awarded tenure because of a possible threat of a lawsuit (that he never made) rather than strong support from his students, is purely a matter of conjecture.</p>
<p>To quote from The Sophian:</p>
<p>"A student who has taken four classes with Miller said he is a very competent and engaging professor and deserves to receive tenure. Jim is certainly a professor who enjoys a lively classroom debate. He challenges his students to view economic and social topics from a number of different perspectives, former student Kristina Johnson said. He does often bring a different social or political view to the discussion, but he always encourages his students to find flaws in his arguments. I remember a particular class discussion during which Dr. Miller defended the flat tax. His points were well-argued, and though he debates passionately, his views were not radical, she said.</p>
<p>She added that when two students blurted out that Millers ideas were just wrong, Miller encouraged both of them and the rest of the class to debate his views, helping students attack his own view. She added that Miller promotes the idea that college is about critically examining ones own beliefs through learning and understanding the beliefs of others, and that is what makes him such an effective professor.</p>
<p>{{But, honestly, I don't know if they were Republicans.}}</p>
<p>Statistically, there are very few gay Republicans or Latinos, so one would have to assume they weren't.
No matter. I guess I don't hear about these things or they dont happen at the colleges where I or friends attended.</p>
<p>{{{But, to be clear, as far as I am aware (and I am wiling to be corrected), Jim Miller NEVER sued Smith College, and the thought that he was awarded tenure because of a possible threat of a lawsuit (that he never made) rather than strong support from his students, is purely a matter of conjecture.}}</p>
<p>No correction necessary. The rumor of a lawsuit was indeed conjecture. It was presumptuous, and to be quit honest, stupid of me to believe what I thought I understood to be true without checking the facts, as I have now done.
The petition brought about by the students in Prof Millers defense may indeed have been the factor that swayed Smith.</p>