Smith vs. Whitman vs. Bard vs. Skidmore vs. Sarah Lawrence vs. BU

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
1

<p>Barring the possibility of getting off UChicago's wait list or maybe getting into Carnegie Mellon, I will likely end up at one these colleges in the fall. I've lurked around the CC board for about a while and I always thought the Smithies seemed the most helpful. :) So I was hoping you guys could help me out with my decision. So some info about me: I'm African-American living in a large city in Arizona so diversity and the mingling of races is pretty important. My EFC is about $1000-$2000 and I received generous packages from Skidmore and BU. I'm stilling waiting for Smith, Whitman, and Bard to complete my financial aid since I sent the business farm supplement thing late. And SLC gapped me at $!2,000 but I'm going to try to appeal. I'm interested in studio art, creative writing, economics, and architecture (yes I know none of these have a B.ARCH). And I intend to go to grad school afterwards but I might work a couple years beforehand. Maybe get a dual MBA/MFA. Right now I'm pondering the idea of career as a creative director, an architect, or a writer. I'm kind of all over the place. Oh and I got into the CFA at BU but I originally applied for the CFA/CAS double degree. Anyways, I think I'm pretty aware of the great things these schools have to offer, so here are my concerns.</p>

<p>SMITH: 1) Women's school. I'm straight and I have mostly female friends and while I love them, it would be kind of nice to have more close guy friends. I see it as a plus and a minus since everything would be specifically catered to women and the whole empowerment thing is wonderful but I'm worried that since I am a shy person it would be even harder for to meet guys as friends and possible dates. Also I'm not sure if people in Northampton are open to interracial dating? 2) I don't know how strong Smith's art, writing, and economics departments are in relation to the other schools. 3) I did not get a STRIDE and worry that internships/research positions would be in short supply because of this.</p>

<p>WHITMAN: 1) The whole diversity thing. There are 24 African-Americans in the class of 2015. The school is 74% white. 2) It is very isolated. I’ve never lived in a small town. My best friend goes to a university in a town of about 60,000 people and she absolutely hates it and goes to Wal-Mart for entertainment. Granted she has had a difficult time making friends, so she is transferring. And I know there’s many outdoor activities and I love hiking and camping, I just don’t know how well I’d adjust. 3) I don’t know how good Whitman’s art department is though my interviewer told me it is pretty strong. 4) I don’t know how good career services are, in relation to Smith’s great career services and alumni network. But I did read they have a 50% alumni giving rate. 5) I’m worried that the Greeks segregate themselves from the rest of the community. 6) I’m worried about grad school placement and how well respected it would be outside of Washington.</p>

<p>BARD: 1) A few people from my school plan on going here, and I kind of wanted a fresh start - trivial, I know. 2) It’s in a forest. Literally. And that wouldn’t worry me that much if I didn’t think I wouldn’t mesh well with the student body. 3) Everyone seems to bring up the hipster population when discussing Bard, so it makes me think this is the majority of students. And while I wouldn’t identify as preppy or conservative – certainly liberal and maybe a comfortable free-spirit style – I’m not hipster. 4) Again, diversity - of both race and interests. It would be nice if there were more scientific majors. 5) Dorms supposedly aren’t very nice or the food. 6) There’s not much of an athletic community, though it’d be nice to run around the rural campus. 7) I might have to do a second thesis if I double major. 8) Art classes are hard to get in to? 8) Job prospects might be better at the other schools.</p>

<p>SKIDMORE: I applied to most of my schools because I saw unique opportunities/curriculums at each of them but for some reason, I can’t recall the unique attributes of Skidmore. </p>

<p>SLC: 1) Worried about the possible lack of community here. Most say that it empties out on the weekends to go see friends in NYC. I don’t have any friends in NYC. 2) Financial aid, of course. 3) The no grades thing might negatively affect me in grad school admissions. 3) Job prospects, though the alumni seem really accomplished. 4) The animosity between the locals and the students. 4) I keep hearing the art department is good, but then some say it’s bad? 5) Am “quirky” enough for the student body?</p>

<p>BU: 1) The school is too big. I don’t want to feel like a number the way I did at my high school. And I think I might do better in a smaller environment due to my introverted personality. 2) I only got into CFA and not the double degree program. 3) The lack of campus. 4) I have other interests beside art and I don’t know if I’m ready to commit to a BFA program. 5) Will I find other self-identified intellectuals – in the most unpretentious way possible – compared to the other schools? 6) When I had my Vassar interview and I asked about race relations on campus, he said that it was great and that he hadn't seen much racism unlike BOSTON.</p>

<p>Wow! Sorry, for the lengthy post. This is a big decision and I am the most indecisive person ever.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t worry about grad school placement out of Whitman. Academically it is a very strong and well respected school. Students go on to the top grad schools in the country. For what it’s worth, Princeton Review gives Whitman an academic rating of 97, Smith a 96, and Bard a 93. I would say that the diversity and small town issues would be the concern in terms of a good fit. Check out Allegiant Air for cheap flights from Phoenix to Pasco.</p>

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<p>If Whitman were in New England, it would have a pretty high ranking, thus showing how useless most rankings are.</p>

<p>Skidmore was my D’s safety. When she got a “likely” from Wellesley, it was “Oh good, I don’t have to go to Skidmore.” Skidmore is pretty white. I’d also tag its students as being moderately bright but not the most ambitious if the sample we met at a local prospect party were a good indicator…quite a contrast with those we met from Smith.</p>

<p>Bard is more like Hampshire. Very different from Smith in ways you’ve already identified.</p>

<p>About your notes on Smith: the Art & Econ departments are very strong. (D took several Econ classes while majoring in Math & Government and is now in process of picking a PhD program in Econ.) No writing department but numerous courses for writing outlets…ask MomWaitingForNew, she just posted on this the other day. Interracial dating: North Hampton doesn’t seem much more uptight than LA, which is to say not very. Guys: you’ll have to work at it. And that in itself may be good for you. See numerous posts on the subject.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Before you can have a complete conversation about all these schools, it strikes me you need to find out what financial aid packages they will give you. Sad to say, that alone may make some decisions for you. I’m not saying you can’t try to negotiate, it’s always worth a try, but there may be some clear distinctions money-wise. </p>

<p>Smith has excellent fine arts and economic departments so that’s a home run there. Here’s some basic info about art from the website:</p>

<p>"Art (encompassing art history, studio art and architecture) consistently ranks among the top three most popular majors at Smith. In 2001, 122 students majored in art. The department numbers 30 faculty members, making it one of the largest art departments in the country among peer institutions.</p>

<p>Because of the distinguished and extensive collections of the Smith College Museum of Art, Smith stands among the few American institutions where students and faculty have had access to actual works of art for teaching and scholarship. In addition, Smith is a leader among liberal arts colleges (and many universities) in the digitization of its extensive image collection."</p>

<p>I know economics is one of the strongest majors on campus; perhaps someone can provide more details.</p>

<p>Here is Momwaitingfornew’s recent post about creative writing at Smith:</p>

<p>"OP: my daughter majored in neuroscience and took several writing courses (advanced short story writing, screenwriting, writing for the theater, plus a mini-course in January) while at Smith. She was accepted into a writing course at Amherst as well, but had to opt out because it conflicted with a lab.</p>

<p>If you want to major in creative writing, don’t go to Smith. If you want to take a few courses in writing, however, then you’ll be happy. Some truly exceptional writers are in the five college area – at Smith (I think the writers-in-residence alternate between poets and fiction writers), at Amherst, and at UMass, which has a strong MFA program. Probably Hampshire and MHC have one or two writers as well. Smith is definitely more poetry-oriented (Sylvia Plath went there, after all!) than fiction-oriented, especially in terms of readings/events.</p>

<p>I know a thing or two about creative writing, and Barnard is definitely the best of the three for that. But really, you don’t have to major in writing to become a writer – or to go to graduate school for it. You do want to make sure that you can take several courses, just to get used to the workshop setting and to get constructive feedback."</p>

<p>Regarding the lack of men at Smith, my daughter’s straight and she’s having a very busy social life with her friends. She’s currently taking a course at Amherst in which all five schools are represented in the class, so you can always take a course elsewhere within the Consortium. You can go to social events and parties at the other schools. There are guys around the Smith campus–in your classes, in the library. If you really want guys in your life, you can make it happen; it just takes a little more effort. Northampton is quite liberal so I don’t think interracial dating is a problem; people do their own thing.</p>

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<p>Collegefreedom, there are two things about Whitman you can stop worrying about; grad school acceptances and segregated frats and sororities. The parties are open to everybody and Greeks at Whitman seem much less insular than at many schools. </p>

<p>I’m sorry that your wait is turning out to be longer than other people’s because of the financial information. The best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for the helpful information! At this point I’d say my top two are Smith and Whitman. So hopefully the financial aid works out well. I’m subconsciously eliminating Bard and Skidmore but I need to see financial aid to make sure. I do quite like Sarah Lawrence and I think it’d be a real plus to be so close to NYC for internships. Would you say that Sarah Lawrence would do better than Smith in this area? Whitman offered me a visit scholarship so I’ll be able to check it out for myself. Skidmore also offered me a visit scholarship for admitted students day, so I think I’ll go to that as well. Since Bard and Sarah Lawrence are close by, I could see those too. Do any of you know the best way to get to Smith from the NY area?</p>

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<p>The bus from NYC to Northampton-Amherst is cheapest. My daughter’s visited a friend at Barnard a couple of times.</p>

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<p>@collegefreedom: Everything you’ve mentioned about BU is true (lack of campus, enormous “community,” etc.), and it all seems like it would make you feel pretty uncomfortable. You’ve got way better choices on the list, so I think it’s safe to knock BU off. Maybe visit if you can to get a good feel in person.</p>

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<p>Skidmore and Sarah Lawrence both have good reputations for undergraduate creative writing. They both bring a lot of writers to campus; unfortunately, most of the writers Skidmore brings in are there in the summer, although I believe students get a chance to help with the summer program, thus getting to meet the writers. In terms of overall academics, however, I’d pick Sarah Lawrence over Skidmore.</p>

<p>The two most academically respected schools on your list are Smith and Whitman. Although I have never visited Whitman and don’t know much about it except for its reputation, I suspect that these colleges couldn’t be more different, if for no other reason than their location. Is there any way to visit both before you have to make a decision?</p>

<p>Smith does not have a large African-American population, but it probably does a lot better than Whitman in that regard. The nice thing about Smith is the progressive/tolerant atmosphere, which extends to Northampton as well, that wouldn’t blink twice at interracial dating. And if you want to meet guys, then you can also make the effort (and it is an effort) to take courses at the co-ed members of the Five Colleges.</p>

<p>I know of someone who majored in studio art at Smith and who got a job at Apple right out of college. She was able to take Smith’s studio art program and convert it into a job that not only supported her but did it with good money. I think that says A LOT about Smith’s training. (Note: she may have minored in something else.)</p>

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<p>I grew up in Washington state and I spent a lot of time in and around the area where Whitman is. Walla Walla has changed a lot just in my fairly short lifetime, from a really backwater town to the center of a thriving wine industry. That being said, as a college student, I don’t know how much being in wine country will thrill you, at least until you turn 21. It has attracted a lot more people to the area though, so there is a lot more going on there then there used to be. But it’s still Walla Walla, which means it sits on the eastern side of Washington over what we call “the Cascade Curtain” that divides the liberal/progressive/green/rainy west from the more conservative/agricultural/dry east. Walla Walla is in Washington’s desert, which is beautiful country (and not totally deserted, thanks to irrigation), but it is pretty isolated, especially compared to Northampton where you’re just a quick bus ride from a lot of major cities, plus you have Northampton which is a cool, hip town with tons of writers and artists and musicians, good shopping and good restaurants. </p>

<p>Re: New York and internships. Smith isn’t as close to NYC as Sarah Lawrence, but for the most part if you have internships they’re going to be in the summer, so it isn’t as if you’ll be commuting directly from campus. Smith is an easy bus ride or drive from NYC (about 3 hours by car/4-ish by bus, depending on traffic) and also just a couple of hours from Boston (2 or less by car/3-ish by bus). You can also take the bus to Springfield and then the train from Springfield to New York. Just something to consider.</p>

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<p>You can also take the train to Boston. Depending on the day, the sucker is packed with college kids.</p>

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<p>Just to address some of your original questions about Smith: Smith has a very strong English, economics, and art program. It’s not a creative writing center, but a lot of well known authors studied at Smith, as did journalists and others (Madeleine L’Engle, Margaret Mitchell, etc.) </p>

<p>The econ department at Smith is great, I was a government major and gov/econ is popular double major or major/minor. Econ is one of the larger departments so they have good classes and strong resources. </p>

<p>As for the art program, Smith has a large, beautiful and fairly new art building with a great printing department as well as the regular offerings you would expect (sculpture, architecture, digital media, photography, painting, drawing, woodworking). Smith’s art museum is the 2nd best collegiate art museum in the nation (after Oberlin). Northampton is a big center of art, with lots of galleries and close proximity to the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art (MASSMOCA). The art program is very demanding but also very good. You have to be prepared to work hard and work long hours, that’s why they keep the facilities open 24 hrs for students, but it is a great education.</p>

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<p>My son had several schools to choose from on the east coast, but chose Whitman because of the tight-knit, inclusive, liberal, unpretentious student body. </p>

<p>Collegefreedom, you have many good choices, you’ll know the right one when you see it.</p>

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<p>You all are really great. Thank you for the wonderful amount of information. But I do have a problem with the whole visiting situation. My parents as whole are largely unsupportive of my decision to go out of state. My mother keeps trying to tell me that if something happens while I’m gone she won’t be able to come help. But I try to get her to understand that if I get in an accident having her there won’t stop something bad from happening to me. Since Whitman and Bard meet a large percent of need and Smith meets 100% I don’t think getting the money to go to these schools would actually be the problem. Luckily, my brothers are both very supportive of me leaving for college since my home situation if less than desirable with my parents broken marriage and they would likely make live at home and commute to my instate school. My dad is telling me that I can only visit one school! And I don’t want to decide on a college and then end up hating it and have to deal with the hassle of transferring. My brothers have offered to take time off work to accompany me to school visits but that would likely end up in me visiting two schools. My parents aren’t willing to let me travel alone. This is just extremely frustrating. My dad is even telling me that I should just go to my local community college! What should I do?</p>

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<p>collegefreedom, this may not exactly be the best advice BUT… Smith covers travel expenses for minority students who register to attend Discoverey Weekend. Since your brothers offered to assist with taking you to visit colleges, I would let them know about Discovery weekend, and then between the two or three of you, you all sort out some sort of arrangement where you’ll be able to go. I know you said your parents won’t allow you to travel alone but I think if you share the information with your brothers, you might be able to find a way of getting around that, or perhaps get one of them to accompany you?</p>

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<p>A couple of things about SLC: (1) it’s relatively close to NYC and on a commuter line, but not close enough to make school-year internships a possibility, and (2) SLC is technically coed, but has lopsided female:male ratio with single, hetero men in short supply (so competition is keen).</p>

<p>Regarding summer internships, Smith offers at least as many opptys as the other schools on your. Smith, however, guarnatees funding (most internships are unpaid). </p>

<p>As for inter-racial dating, preppy D, who is AA and a senior at Smith, chose Smith in signif part b/c of Amherst (hs sweetheart); this fall, she began dating bf #3 (black!) - - two prior bfs were White. Just one data point, take it for what it’s worth.</p>

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<p>Collegefreedom, it sounds like you have some very protective men in your family! That’s quite nice, yet you also sound like a very independent person. I do hope you’ll be able to work out enough college visits to make you comfortable with your decision. You mentioned that a couple of the schools including Whitman offered you a travel stipend to visit. Whitman will be easy, since for this trip they will fly you right into Walla Walla and you’ll have an 8 minute taxi ride straight to campus. Tell your dad it is a very safe campus and surrounding neighborhood and town. If you like the school, they may feel a bit better about you at least staying on the west coast. I know I do with my daughter, and there’s something psychologically comforting that she is still in the same time zone! If you end up there, for the future there are cheap nonstop flights from Phoenix to Pasco on an airline called Allegiant, and from the airport in Pasco you are just over an hour’s $6.00 shuttle ride to Walla Walla, and a 10 minute walk from there to campus. That nonstop flight is new and has been a great help to us in LA.</p>

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<p>@peacelovesoul My brother agreed to travel with me for Discovery Weekend! On the registration form it asks whether or not I have guests that will accompany me, does this mean that they will pay for both my brother and I or just me? Also, will Smith pay for travel back home?</p>

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<p>PLS, your parents need to deal with the fact that once you’re away at college, you’ll be traveling alone all the time in some senses. Part of college is about developing skills for independence. </p>

<p>(Okay, I traveled with D for her final decision trip but in large part that was because we were coming back from a high school trip to Europe together.)</p>

<p>Sorry to say but if your Dad is recommending the local community college, he just doesn’t “get” what college is about. It’s not like buying a cheaper brand of toilet paper.</p>

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<p>Collegefreedom: call to find out about an accompanying person. You have nothing to lose! When you call, just remember the time difference in the East and the fact that most university offices close at 4 pm (don’t know if that’s the case at Smith, though.)</p>

<p>I also don’t know where your brother would stay. You need to find that out, too. I think it’s great that he’s traveling with you; however, you must make sure that he’s off doing something else while you’re exploring Smith since family members (and friends, for that matter) can prevent you from being fully engaged in the activities. </p>

<p>And I agree with TD. A residential college can be life-changing. It’s not just about taking courses – it’s about carrying the intellectual engagement to the houses and the hallways, about being exposed 24/7 to other curious, ambitious people, about the transition from living at home to living on your own, about independence. You just can’t do those things if you are commuting from home. If your father did not go away for college, he probably doesn’t understand the difference. I know that a friend of mine commuted to college, and she couldn’t wrap her mind around why she shouldn’t pick up her son every weekend to take him home to be with the family. (My daughter would have killed me if I tried that!)</p>