<p>My D’s STRIDE was disappointing. She didn’t get research opportunities in her field (Art History), but was assigned to a music prof to help him translate his book. She enjoyed working with him as a person, and he was incredibly helpful in helping her get into the classes she wanted, but the work she did bored her, although she found it easy money compared to tutoring for a few dollars an hour, which she did the last two years.</p>
<p>“Also, it’s very possible Yale and its students place more emphasis on other graduate endeavors than participating in the Fulbright programs.”</p>
<p>It’s possible that they put something in the New Haven water supply, too. But the reality is - as you state - that Smith has a record of good advising in this realm - actually, an unmatched record, and when you consider that using so-called “measures of student quality”, they shouldn’t be even close. </p>
<p>So, when there are objective measures, you argue it is ONLY because Smith puts in extra effort. Well, duh, that was my whole point! When anecdotal, it is because the sample is limited. Which is it?</p>
<p>Now, it is true, I can’t really prove Yale is better than Muskogee Beauty College. In my opinion, the hair coming out of the latter is significantly better. But it’s only a matter of opinion. ;)</p>
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<p>No disagreement. What I’m trying to convey is you can’t proclaim Smith a superior institution because of the advising of one individual in one area. If Donald resigns and the number of Fulbright awards significantly decreases, will you then bemoan the lack of adequate advising at Smith?</p>
<p>I’m aware of numerous occurrences where the advising of professors or administrators was detrimental or very detrimental to the student’s success…including to the children of two highly respected posters on this forum. You can’t castigate a college for advising errors, but there isn’t always a rainbow at the end of the road in the land of Oz. :)</p>
<p>Brag all you want about Smith, but knocking Yale is petty.</p>
<p>As to the Fulbrights…There are two kinds. One is a teaching Fulbright. These aren’t that hard to get. Yale has its own Yale in China program. [Yale-China</a> Association: English Teaching Fellowship](<a href=“http://www.yalechina.org/dynamicpage.php?Id=9&SubId=29]Yale-China”>http://www.yalechina.org/dynamicpage.php?Id=9&SubId=29) Yalies tend to prefer it to the teaching Fulbrights because (a) they’d rather live in China than e.g, South Korea; (b) the living stipends are higher; (c) the “word” is that there is better preparation of and support for the teachers while they are living abroad. As to the “real” Fulbrights…some of these are projects and, while competitive, getting one has more to do with coming up with a good project idea than your gpa or other stats. (It REALLY helps if you speak a less common foreign language.) Examples of Fulbright projects: spending a year in the West Indies studying midwives’ practices and spending a year in Spain collecting Jewish folk songs. </p>
<p>The hard ones to get are the UK Fulbrights. They ARE hard to get. However, kids who get a Rhodes, Marshall, Gates, etc. generally choose them over UK Fulbrights. Plus there are some other scholarships that students often take over Fulbrights, in part because they sometimes provide better funding over longer periods of time. Think Mellon, Keasbey, Churchill, etc. (Here’s Cornell’s link to the Keasbey [Keasbey</a> Scholarship](<a href=“Career Services | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University”>Career Services | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University) and its link to the Churchill [Winston</a> Churchill Foundation Scholarship: Description](<a href=“Career Services | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University”>Career Services | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University))</p>
<p>Personally, I think using fellowships awarded to measure the quality of colleges is a silly idea, but if you want to do it, focusing on just one scholarship like the Fulbright doesn’t seem like a rational approach to me. Even if you do, deduct the teaching Fulbrights. </p>
<p>Yale is not UChicago 30 years ago. Nor is it Princeton today. </p>
<p>Post #3 is just plain silly. Yes, New Haven is a city. If you are uncomfortable in DC, Boston or NY, you will be in New Haven. But the area near Yale College and the College campus itself is pretty safe. I won’t claim it’s as safe as Northampton, but it’s certainly not that dangerous. Yes, the med school and some of the other programs are in somewhat more dangerous areas, but most undergrads aren’t taking courses at the campuses that are in less safe areas. </p>
<p>The claim that Yalies don’t make friends outside their residential colleges is absurd. IMO, most college kids at most colleges make their closest friends through ECs. Certainly, most Yalies participate in ECs and those aren’t limited to kids in particular residential colleges. If you attend Yale and you join an a cappela group, a chorus, the radio station, an orchestra, the Yale Daily News staff, the Yale Herald staff, Rumpus, a sports team, the yearbook, mock trial, UN, literary magazine, debate, Dwight Hall, etc., you will make friends in other residential colleges. And gee, I’ve known kids at lots of colleges who actually make friends in class! Fancy that. </p>
<p>And not know profs? Yes, Yale has TAs. They lead the discussion groups in the large intro classes and a few teach introductory foreign language classes. Most profs do their own grading or part of it—say grading the essays and papers while TAs grade multiple choice, even in large classes. But it’s virtually impossible to go through Yale without getting to know at least a couple of profs well because most majors require at least two seminars. Most Yalies take lots more than 2 seminars. Profs grade everything in seminars.</p>
<p>Having grad students isn’t entirely a bad thing by the way. First, it makes it possible for the most advanced students to earn a master’s degree along with that BA or BS. Moreover, in many fields, there’s no sharp divide between grad courses and upper division courses. So, a senior majoring in English is going to have some grad students in English in the same classes. Among other things, this means that there can be a wider variety of course offerings than many LACs can offer. </p>
<p>Undergrad research? Not a problem. See e.g. [Research</a> Opportunities | science.yalecollege.yale.edu](<a href=“http://science.yalecollege.yale.edu/research-opportunities]Research”>Research Opportunities | Science & Quantitative Reasoning Education) </p>
<p>Now, if someone wants to choose Smith…that’s fine. However, the reasons for that choice given in this thread are based to a large extent on wholly unsubstantiated statements about Yale. Why not tell the OP what is good about Smith instead?</p>
<p>Mini, with all the exchange about Smith and Yale, etc., etc., I just want to say how I was blown away with all the details of what your daughter has accomplished. At this point as parents, it’s fun to just stand back, watch it unfold, and wait to see what the next chapter looks like. :)</p>
<p>I think this decision is about the kind of college experience you want to have–you will get an excellent education at both places, but your experience will be quite different. I do want to respond to some of the points about Yale, though, because I have some pretty direct knowledge, since I went there and my son is a junior there now. Specifically:
Elements of truth, but misleading. New Haven is gritty, but most students don’t experience serious crime. You will have to lock up your bike, but the area right around campus is pretty nice these days. The murders that touched the Yale community were not street crime.</p>
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You will have some large classes with TAs, but plenty of smaller classes, and as much contact as professors as you like, if you actually go to office hours.</p>
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This is not really true for the undergraduate campus. It’s all pretty much contiguous, although streets run through it.</p>
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I don’t agree that it’s male-oriented, but it may well be true that there is more of a party atmosphere than at Smith.</p>
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This is simply untrue.</p>
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I suppose this depends on the department, but I don’t think this is likely to be broadly true.</p>
<p>I think there are probably many reasons to choose Smith over Yale–it’s just that the list above aren’t very good reasons. Better reasons would be preferring a smaller campus, preferring a single-sex school, identifying departments that are strong in fields that interest you, etc.</p>
<p>I know I cannot really add much to what has already been said; however, I can give my honest experience/opinion about Smith.</p>
<p>I chose to apply/come to Smith for the small class sizes, and the wonderful professors. In my experience, they have always been more than helpful with advising or with academic help; on most occasions, they are very approachable and personable. I have been allowed to tweak my major a bit to fit my needs for growth/preparation for graduate school. I have been challenged academically, which I find thrilling because I was not intellectually stimulated enough in HS. I know I thrived here because in my career/craft there has been leaps and bounds in maturity and intellectualism.</p>
<p>The life at Smith is wonderful due to the superb housing situation with a strong emphasis in community, traditions, and progress within houses, departments, clubs/organizations, and the college as a whole. Within these spheres of community, there is a lot of overlap, which gives Smith a very friendly and open environment. In turn, the overlapped environment allows for a very conducive and positive experience in learning in the classrooms.</p>
<p>Class-wise, I have only had one course that I was not enthralled/excited about (my first-year seminar, it was just alright). The professors are very good at teaching, engaging students in discussion (even in lecture-based classes!!!), and guiding students in possible projected paths for future classes (all you would ever need is to ask).</p>
<p>Plus, the five-college system is great if you want to take any courses that they offer there. I took a course, where I was alongside graduate students, following the same syllabus that they had. The workload was challenging, but it was definitely a great atmosphere for me that I thrived in. Smith really prepares their students well for life after Smith.</p>
<p>Again, Smith is a great place, and I love it very much. I feel that it was the perfect fit for me. If you have not visited Smith, you should. They have a lot of programs, funding, and opportunities that are not advertised nearly as much as Praxis, Study Abroad, and Fulbrights are advertised.</p>
<p>I know my post isn’t going to be super helpful, but: WOW!!! Congratulations! I would likely pick Yale. I can’t give you any hard facts about why other than research opportunities and the fact that I didn’t like Smith when I visited. Clearly, if you love both, then you’re in for a tough decision (: A huge advantage of Smith, IMO, is the size. It’s probable that you could get to know all of your professors, and none of them will be busy with graduate work, so it would be nice to have 100% of the focus on undergrads. That’s what might sway me…</p>
<p>I’d still pick Yale, though. Plus, it might give you a leg up if you want to go to grad school (;</p>
<p>Also, just saying, people get so heated when ivies are brought up in conversation! Yeesh. I’m siding with CarolynB (: Just enjoy the fact that you have such a fantastic choice to make (can’t go wrong if you love both!) and relax.</p>
<p>ohreally i have talked with you and i stand by what i said…remember you are in a Smith Forum and everything said is pretty biased. I am glad i am picking Smith, but to be honest, i regret the fact that i did not think through my options. The fact of the matter is both schools offers something the other cannot. The decision comes down to which school fits you. I would be lying if i sometimes which i could go to Yale for a little while and see what it’s like. I am sure later i will kind of secretly wish i went to a coed school. I am soooo freakin’ excited to go to Smith, but i will always have a sort of “what if” reservation…but i think i would still have that regardless of what school i would have chosen. </p>
<p>Congrats btw…let me know which school you chose. If you end up picking Smith, we should meet up to discuss our disdain with the heteronormative nature of college 
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<p>btw crewdad…do you not like smith? De you have a kid ther? It just seems like everything you post sounds very educated, but very anti-Smith, what’s the deal?</p>
<p>D was denied at Yale. Had she been accepted, she would have gone. Why? Name recognition only, as she is an international, and Smith is totally unknown. Retrospectively, like Mini and TheDad, fate made the right choice for her. Thanks to great recommendations from her supervisor (Major name in Art History), she got the coveted Met summer internship. She added the Museum Studies Certificate to her degree, and was accepted for an M.A. into the selective Ecole du Louvre which she is currently acing. She has just been accepted for a 6 month internship at the major Modern Art Museum of Paris ( Centre Georges Pompidou), because of personal recommendations from Smith professors and the curator of the Smith Museum with whom she worked to prepare the current “Debussy in Paris” show at Smith.
It is more than unlikely that she would have had such opportunities at Yale.
I should add that she loved her four years at Smith where she acquired as well as knowledge the confidence she needed to get into a highly competitive field.
P.S: Rereading my post, I feel that I am boasting about my daughter whereas I am trying to boast about Smith. All I can add is that the former wouldn’t be who she is without the latter, and I think that many Smith parents would agree with me on this point.</p>
<p>ummm ^ holy jeez i messed my post up ignore all of the grammar errors, i typed it super fast</p>
<p>@kristinabrown: I don’t think Crewdad is anti-Smith - I think he’s just trying to provide a needed bit of balance in a thread that is admittedly pretty biased in favor of Smith, unsurprisingly!</p>
<p>Lost in Translat, I am truly delighted to hear your daughter is thriving! This is such good news! I remember how sad and frustrated both of you were when she couldn’t stay in the US. after graduation, and like so many parents, you were so worried about her future. Thank you so much for sharing! I’ve been interested in driving out to see the “Debussy in Paris” show at Smith and it’s especially wonderful that your daughter had a hand in its creation. </p>
<p>I don’t think you are bragging about your daughter anymore than anyone else is. You are sharing examples of the very real possibilities Smith has to offer and your daughter has taken excellent advantage of them. Keep us posted on her progress!</p>
<p>CIEE, thank you for your discernment.</p>
<p>Kristina, Smith is a fabulous college and a perfect fit for many, many women. I become thorny when posters make unsubstantiated and baseless claims that Smith is superior in every respect to…pick your college. Or profess that attending a womans college is superior to a co-ed education. While that is true for many, many women, it’s not for all. Some posters unintentionally oversell the STRIDE research to the point that you’d think it’s akin to arriving in the promised land. There are research opportunities that truly are astounding, but some are clerical in nature and amount to no more than a job. Shouldn’t a woman be cautioned to choose her STRIDE research wisely? There’s no point in listing every silly misstatement made on this forum or negative comments I hear from Smithies. You get the gist. </p>
<p>To be fair, I also listen to many Smithies and their parents sing the praises of the college, the administration, well, maybe not the administration so much, but almost all rave about the advising and close contact with caring professors. TheDad’s daughter’s relationship with her professors and advisers is the norm. Mimi’s daughter’s phenomenal success didn’t happen by accident. You’ve read the posts about other Smithies successes. All, to some extent, can be contributed to Smith.</p>
<p>Kristina, having acknowledged examples of Smithies successes, no college is perfect. They all have positives and negatives and a woman can thrive at a vast number of institutions. It’s a matter of priorities and fit. It doesnt serve any womans interests not to be honest and forthcoming when discussing the social and educational aspects of a Smith education… the good, bad and ugly. And posters who infer attending Smith can only be surpassed by the second coming are doing an inexcusable disservice to those who are seeking advice and clarity.</p>
<p>There are those who believe the major factor for the significant student attrition is due to finances; however, that’s not the case. The foremost contributing factor when contemplating to transfer is fit. My hope is that I et al. are cautious and don’t contribute to the attrition by persuading an impressionable young woman to attend Smith only to learn not too many months later she’s unhappy and transfer applications are sent. Or even more disconcerting, a woman is miserable but financial aid considerations make transferring impossible. I know too many women in both categories.
Kristina, I’m guilty of the transgression of overselling and the consequences. It’s not a pleasant experience.</p>
<p>SmithandProud’s method of offering advice should be the standard for all contributors to this forum. She never fails to present Smith in an honest and forthright manner, while at the same time being an unabashed champion for the undeniable value of a Smith education.</p>
<p>Thank you Carolyn, I will 
Crewdad, I totally agre with what you say. I have already posted about my own D’s disappointing STRIDE, which was indeed a job rather than a research opportunity. On the other hand, I do think that for the most part, Smith, maybe because of its very special atmosphere, pays more attention to fit than other colleges. I know a girl with very high scores who applied to Smith as a safety, and was waitlisted. It was obvious to me that she wouldn’t have thrived there, and her essay clearly showed that her heart was elsewhere.
Furthermore, my D and a lot of her friends were pleasantly surprised at how compatible they were with their first year roommates. Once again, I believe that Smith really studies the housing forms to try and minimize the stress of leaving home. Of course there are always exceptions.
On the down side, Smith College overstresses the availability of the 5 college consortium. Unless you have your own car, it is extremely difficult to take classes in the other colleges, unless you are ready to sacrifice half a day for one class. Moreover, Smith, despite its impressive catalogue, is too small to offer the range of classes you could find at an Uni. D was severely limited in her choice of a thesis adviser, and the prof who took her on admitted that she had limited knowledge on the subject and its particular research ressources.
So, yes, Crewdad, it is a question of fit and prioritizing what is most important to the student, as NO institution will be all to everyone. On the other hand, 18 to 22 is a period of intense mental and emotional growth for kids, and it is normal that some feel they have outgrown their college in a couple of years.</p>
<p>Lost in Translat</p>
<p>Thank you for adding your views and for your daughter’s wonderful contribution to the Smith College Museum of Art.
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<p>The numbers don’t equate with that assertion.</p>
<p>I agree it’s normal for students to feel they’ve outgrown their college after a couple or three years. The attrition problem I was referring to is the fact that depending on the year, 9 or 10 percent of first years don’t return. My desire is to have the retention rate comparable to other top LACs at ~ 94-98 percent.</p>
<p>I daresay if you asked the same question on the Yale thread, you might get some divergent positions. A lot of the statements here about Yale are just plain wrong. That’s not to say there aren’t real, and tangible, differences that make this no “slam dunk” decision. But Yale really isn’t all bad :)</p>