Smith's institutional metholodgy?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
1

<p>I've got an efc of 230$ and collegeboard is estimating that my IM contribution will be 8,763$ and well there's absolutely no way I can afford to go to Smith if that's true. I've heard some schools will limit the assessment of our home value based on my parents income. Is that true for Smith? Has anyone else had the school calculate your IM at a lot lower than college board?</p>

<p>and if anyone knows more about this than I do... is 9k really a realistic expectation for someone with these stats?
I made 2323$ last year and have 1200$ in savings
My mom is 56 and dad is 63
Their adjusted income is 8922$ (filed a 1040)
mom has 60k in retirement savings (ira that kinda stuff) and is going to school full time
dad has 140k in retirement savings
we have 17K in savings
and 12k in investments
our house is worth $190,000 (just finished paying it off)</p>

<p>given their income and age there's no way they're going to take out a second mortgage and since I'm certainly not expecting them to pay for college, I'm really hoping Smith isn't going to expect them to pay this much either.</p>

<p>Anyone with similar stats wanna share their financial aid package info with me?</p>

2

<p>First of all, I can appreciate you feeling comfortable sharing such personal info, but not everyone is. Please keep that in mind. Financial aid is a sensitive topic for many. To be completely honest, it makes me a little uncomfortable that you’re asking others for the info you’re asking for, even if it’s voluntary.</p>

<p>Second of all, what you have now for expected contribution won’t be accurate if you’re asking about Smith fin aid specifically, anyway, for several reasons:</p>

<p>1) They don’t just want your FAFSA. It’s not the only form Smith fin aid uses. They want your CSS/PROFILE, you & your parents’ tax returns, and any other forms that apply to you, (ex. we have to do the farm/business form).</p>

<p>2) Smith wants all those forms, but then uses the info you provide in them to make their own calucations. Hence, whatever expected contributions you’re using now probably won’t be the ones they use when determining your aid package. The way they recalculate can either hurt or help you obviously depending on what numbers your forms have on them.</p>

<p>3) They won’t care that your parents are closer to retirement age, sorry to say. They might care that taking out a second morgage may or may not be an option but probably not. </p>

<p>4) After taking the time to sound kinda like a Debbie Downer, what I can say now is that Smith’s fin aid is great for many. A lot of individuals get a lot of fin aid to come here. Smith made sure their fin aid budget increased last year with the recession. Granted there are folks who like to point out how they got an unfair deal & I’m sure some have legit grievances. Without sharing exact numbers, I’ll tell you that I go to Smith essentially for free & am middle class. Keep in mind that I also don’t pay for the meal plan, which is $6,000+/yr right there. And I have a generous outside aid aka something you absolutely need to look into if affordability is an issue. </p>

<p>Just like none of us are Admissions folks, we’re not Fin Aid people, either. The answer to your question of whether you’ll get the fin aid you need? It depends. I would call fin aid for more info about how they evaluate need, but they will probably have a lot of “it depends”-like answers for you as well since it’s before you can submit all your forms to them. The best advice I can give is to apply & see what happens.</p>

3

<p>Well, excluding retirement savings and home equity, 17k savings + 12k investments = 29k. Divide by 4 = 7.25k a year. I don’t know much about the inner workings of FA, but logically if I were an FA officer, I’d view savings and non-retirement investments as available college money. Maybe add a small savings allowance and a small home equity loan; ~9k/year EFC seems reasonable to me.</p>

4

<p>The tricky thing about fin aid is that the process is murky. Even someone with the same stats might not get the exact same package as you. The best thing you can do is not drive yourself crazy with websites and calculators. Just fill out the forms, apply to colleges that you think you would be happy at in a wide range of prices, and wait. Accept that you have zero control over this process until the aid offers come out, and even then, you have very limited control. </p>

<p>One thing to note though, it’s a wee bit unrealistic to expect your parents will pay nothing and that you will be able to attend Smith. Even if you get a high paying job every summer and work during the school year, you wouldn’t be able to cover an EFC of any real weight. And your EFC, whatever it ends up being, certainly won’t be zero. Like all colleges, Smith calculates what it feels like the parents “could” pay, not what they might feel comfortable paying. Sometime the “could pay” figure is really only feasible if the parents are willing to make big sacrifices. </p>

<p>Where are your parents on all of this? It would be a good idea to sit down with them, if you haven’t already, and find out exactly what they are thinking they can afford. That way, when the aid letters come in, you’ll all know what tough decisions, if any, have to be made.</p>

5

<p>My parents are willing to cosign loans (within reason) but right now I’m operating under the assumption that those will be something I need to pay back. When we actually get my financial aid package, my parents and I are going to sit down and talk about what they can help with but I know it’s not going to be anywhere near 9 grand. I may have no problem with sharing my financial info but I’m not about to say what I’ve decided to take responsibility for paying for myself…but I do have a number for what I think would be irresponsible for me to accept on my own.</p>

<p>Also, and I should have been more clear about this, I’m not trying to get an estimate necessarily of what aid I’ll actually get, (I realize that’s complicated and wouldn’t want to get my hopes up) I’m just trying to get an idea of what, at minimum Smith is going to expect me to pay before offering loans and work study to make up for what isn’t covered by grant aid. </p>

<p>Also MeredithBelle how are you getting away with not having a meal plan and what year are you? Are you in one of the houses its own kitchen? That’s where I’m hoping to end up eventually but I’ve heard it’s very unlikely.</p>

6

<p>Again, it’s hard to know what Smith will expect you to pay. The process is super murky and the formula, like that at most colleges, is kept super secret. They will look at all of your family assets (retirement savings, equity in the house, investments, any special property you might own like a boat or a vacation home) and ask you to draw on that. </p>

<p>There are three basic ways to get off the meal plan, and unforunately none of them you can do as a first-year, so don’t expect to rely on that as a cost saver. </p>

<p>1) Live off campus: First years are required to live on campus, but after that you can petition to move off campus. Doesn’t always work, and is not usually recommended unless you have a car (limited number of apartments in Noho that are within walking distance of campus, and what there are are expensive). </p>

<p>2) Live in a co-op house: Co-op houses do some of their own cleaning and all of their own cooking. People pay house dues (a few hundred dollars a month) to go towards the group purchase of food. There are two co-op houses, one is vegan/vegetarian, one is not strictly vegetarian, but does not buy or cook meat often, so that’s something to consider. You can’t live in a co-op as a first-year and there is a waiting list for upperclasswomen. </p>

<p>3) You can live in a Friedman. There are a small number of Friedman apartments that are on campus. They’re 4 person apartments, and residents do all their own cooking and cleaning and are more or less independent. Friedman’s a great, beautiful inside, fun to live in, but pretty much impossible to get into unless you’re a senior. Like all housing, they’re given out in order of seniority, and you need to have a group of four people together so you can all apply together. Many many more seniors apply for Friedman’s than actually get them.</p>

7

<p>Unless you are virtually destitute - you should expect to pay something. Included in a financial aid package are loans and work study as well.</p>

8

<p>akebias
Like I said not looking for a free ride and fully expect work study and loans. I’m just looking for what they’ll expect me to pay right off the bat before aid. </p>

<p>SmithieandProud
That’s interesting about both co-ops being mostly vegetarian. I’m not a vegetarian currently but I was excited about the vegan dining hall because I’d have an opportunity to start making the shift. Do you know if you can purchase partial dining plans if you live in a co-op? If everyone is paying house fees how is shopping done?</p>

9

<p>For the co-ops there’s a house shopping list that the residents create, and shopping is one of the chores that gets assigned on rotating basis each week (so is cooking). They order a lot of food in bulk (beans, rice, that kind of thing) and they have a share in a local farm so that’s how they get vegetables. Other things get bought at the store, and people are allowed to spend their own money and make their own food (which they can keep in the fridge), but even if you do that you still have to pay the full house dues. Both of the co-ops are mostly vegetarian honestly because meat is expensive. I had a friend who lived in the non-vegan co-op and she often complained because she didn’t always get enough protein in her diet (they spent a lot of nights eating rice and beans, lentils and rice, etc. etc.), so sometimes she would break down and buy her own food. </p>

<p>Also, the other people in her co-op would occasionally go dumpster diving (google: freegan) or resort to other interesting methods to obtain things to supplement the food budget. The co-ops are known for being even more “out there” (politically, gastronomically, pharmaceutically, if you take my meaning) than the rest of campus. It was fun to visit my friend there, but not really my cup of tea. </p>

<p>There’s no way to buy a partial meal plan, because at Smith you don’t buy a “meal plan” in the traditional sense. Everyone pays the same amount of money and then they just get to eat, there’s no spending X amount of lunches, dinners, etc. However, co-op people who have friends in other houses don’t find it that hard to sneak into a dining hall when they want to eat. Smith dining staff is not terribly vigilant. </p>

<p>However, every dining hall at Smith offers a vegetarian option with every meal, and oftentimes a vegan option as well, so you don’t need to live in a co-op or only eat in the vegan/veg dining hall to be a vegetarian.</p>

10

<p>Is applying so much effort that you are unwilling to undertake the Smith common app supplement w/o knowing whether your finaid package ahead of time?</p>

<p>Students who submit completed finaid forms by the stated deadlines receive their award letters with their admissions letters. If you are in that pool, you’ll have plenty of time to review the Smith award and compare it to awards from other schools.</p>

11

<p>There really is no better estimate than to calculate CB’s federal/institutional methodologies and assume that whichever one is higher will be your minimum EFC. So, I’d figure out if you/your parents can swing 10k/year not including federal loans/workstudy; if you can’t, still apply to need-based schools if you love them, but make sure you have other options.</p>

12

<p>I’ve already applied foolishpleasure.
I’m just curious/anxious. I’m actually trying to transfer schools for the spring (I’m a sophomore at a state school). Since I’m going to have so little time to make a decision and since I both really want to get out of the program I’m in/really want to go to Smith, I want to have realistic expectations ahead of time so I make as rational a decision as possible.</p>

<p>So no one has heard of or can guess from personal experience if smith caps the amount of considered home equity? That’s really what I’m asking here.</p>

<p>Lol at lentils btw. Hah… lets hope it doesn’t come down to that.</p>

13

<p>I live in co-op housing. Yes, we pay several hundred dollars a semester to pay for food, but like I said, compare that to several thousand a semester & you can save a sizeable chunk in the end. Both co-ops are now fully integrated into the housing lottery for current students but both have < 20 spaces so it can be difficult to get into them. Like SmithieAndProud wrote, there’s no such thing as a “partial dining plan” at Smith, unfortunately & if you’re not on the meal plan, it’s super-easy to have a friend let you into dining halls, but I actually haven’t done it a whole lot. </p>

<p>Also, meals aren’t served 3 times a day in co-ops: mine serves dinner Sun-Thu & Sunday brunch, so you’re prepping your own meals a lot but there’s all the food we buy to prep with & leftovers usually, too. If someone is super-conscious about getting enough protein etc., there’s food to use make sure that happens. </p>

<p>Also, on the fin aid bit, unless you are an independent student on the FAFSA etc., Smith will expect your parents to make a contribution to your bills regardless.</p>

14

<p>Colleges are no longer supposed to use the value of your house in their calculations unless you have more than one. From my observances they will go after any cash you and your family have.</p>

15

<p>I’m sorry to tell you this, but it is unlikely in the current financial climate that Smith, and most other colleges, will revise your financial aid package by any substantial measure. My financial aid package was smaller this semester as well, and I have heard of many students not being able to attend or taking the semester off because they simply cannot afford the costs of a Smith education at this time. That being said, if you choose to attend Smith, when you call the financial aid office they will likely ask you to embark on an appeal process:</p>

<p>[Smith</a> College: Student Financial Services](<a href=“http://www.smith.edu/finaid/reviewpolicy.php]Smith”>http://www.smith.edu/finaid/reviewpolicy.php)</p>

<p>using a form similar to this one:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.smith.edu/finaid/guides/awardguide/documents/reviewrequestform.pdf[/url]”>http://www.smith.edu/finaid/guides/awardguide/documents/reviewrequestform.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>if you don’t see anything on the form that fits your circumstances, it’s likely a college will not increase your aid. Even if they do change your aid package it will be quite a long process, so I suggest you begin the look for aid elsewhere. In my parent’s case, we could simply not afford to be paying $900 more dollars a month so we paid off our first payment so that I could come back to Smith without being barred from registration and picking up my keys, and then began to process of taking out a $6000 loan with MEFA, the Massachusetts Educational Financing Authority. MEFA provides loans to students who are permanent residents of the state of Mass, but also to students attending Massachusetts schools, so you would qualify regardless of where you live. I would encourage you to begin looking for alternate sources of grants and loans now.</p>

16

<p>You paint a pretty bleak picture bea but thank you for letting me know that this sort of thing is going on at Smith. If possible, I’ll be even more cautious evaluating my aid package if I even get one. (I’m not sure where you got the idea I needed to appeal as I haven’t been accepted yet) Was their any significant change in your families income or assets that might have caused a reduction in your financial aid? </p>

<p>I thought 100% need schools were supposed to offer consistent aid packages (aside for summer earning increases) as long as your income value did not change?</p>

17

<p>Our experience, with a family income just a bit above the national median, no small business and no large home, was that Smith was the most generous of the 100%-of-need schools to which our d. was accepted. More critical to us, when we experienced unusual difficulties (my wife’s cancer, my heart attack), Smith increased our aid in the middle of the year, for which we are eternally grateful.</p>

<p>Smith’s financial aid budget is roughly double that of the top 3 LACs. This is a function of a commitment to a much larger proportion of low-to-middle income students, including those on Pell Grants, and a larger student body. Pres. Christ has made it quite clear that the financial assistance budget will be held harmless even in the financial meltdown.</p>

18

<p>Speaking of Pell Grants, Beargarden, do you know if you qualify? I don’t know much about them because I knew our family didn’t qualify, but that’s also worth researching. I don’t know whether you apply separately for a Pell Grant or if Smith would allocate the grant money to you.</p>

19

<p>Smith allocates it, as the first part of the financial aid award.</p>

20

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<p>As a possible future Smith or MHC student, rule number one:Be more discerning what you believe.</p>

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[Smith</a> College: News](<a href=“http://www.smith.edu/newssmith/summer2009/financial.php]Smith”>Smith College: News)</p>