<p>Okay, so I've been accepted to some amazing schools and amazing programs. Here's the list:
MIT, Caltech, JHU/Peabody DD, Northwestern DD, USC, WashU St. Louis, Drexel, and U Illinois. I would really love to attend the Northwestern DD program, but it's five years and I really don't have money ample for five years. I know that engineering is my primary interest, but at the same time, I'm not really sure if I can give up music. Simply being accepted into music schools indicates to me that I have the ability to become a musician. Yet I know that engineering is a much more stable job and I truly do love math and science. FYI, I'm a bassoonist. So I guess I have two questions:
1. Where should I go? I'm just looking for anyone's two cents, but a justification would be good as well.
2. If I attend a "tech" school (MIT or Caltech), how much would my music level drop? Would I still be able to keep playing at a high level? Would there be others around me who also loved music just as much? And if I decided I really couldn't live without music would there be a chance that I could in the end be accepted to an MM program?</p>
<p>I can’t respond to most of your concerns, but do you know that you can do the JHU/Peabody DD in 4 years? Have you looked into the logistics of the locations of those campuses?</p>
<p>Fantom,</p>
<p>I think I’m reading between the lines that although you want to pursue music, you ultimately see yourself in another profession twenty years down the line??? Here’s one observation, </p>
<p>Through the years, I’ve know several Northwestern violin students (5 - 10???) who entered with an original plan of a DD in music and another discipline including math and science degrees. The plan changed by 4th year and the students completed only the “other degree”, not music. 4th year generally had very few music classes, some discontinued lessons and performing ensembles. Years 1 - 3 in the DD program helped these students become clearer as to their ultimate professional goals.</p>
<p>If this thought is of interest, I would check with someone in Admissions, or Engineering, or Music to determine what the current course distribution is. It may be possible to leave your options open for a year or two - if you are very careful about the courses you enroll in.</p>
<p>You certainly have a great set of options! Congratulations!</p>
<p>A dual degree anywhere is going to be super difficult to complete in four years, particularly if you are going the route of a BS in Engineering with a BM or BA in music. The engineering degree will have a lot of math and lab courses, while the music degree has its own large set of requirements, including ensembles which often seem to conflict with the lab courses in the mid-afternoon time slots. So even if you are up to the academic challenge of doing all that in four year, the logistics of scheduling and getting from one campus to another may make it impossible. Before committing to a dual degree program, you need to contact those schools and see if they think there is any chance at all that you could complete both sets of requirements in four years. I won’t say that it is impossible, but it is very rare even when the two degrees have more overlap in the curricula.</p>
<p>MIT has a lively performing arts scene and a surprisingly good music department. One of the best viola da gamba players I know graduated from there. If they do not have a suitable bassoon teacher for you, there must be some excellent private teachers available in the Boston area. On the whole, the school orchestra will not be at the same level as a conservatory orchestra that is filled with performance majors. There would be some students like yourself, who are good enough to be accepted to a top music program, but there will also be some who are a notch or two down from that level.</p>
<p>I was under the impression that Drexel’s engineering program was normally a five-year deal all by itself due to the internships that are an essential part of their program. Perhaps this would help pay for the fifth year, though. You might be able to find a college orchestra in Philadelphia that would be happy to get a decent bassoon player, but that would probably only work for semesters in which you were attending classes at Drexel rather than interning during the work day. With Temple and Curtis nearby, there should also be no shortage of teachers who have private studios in addition to their college jobs.</p>
<p>I do not know much about the other schools on your list. Hopefully you will hear from others who do.</p>
<p>Concerning grad school for music, the audition plays a huge part, but they normally expect that you have had at least four semesters of music theory/aural skills and two or three of music history as part of your undergrad education. Possibly a level of basic skills on piano as well. If you can’t fit these into your undergrad schedule, you will have a good bit of catching up to do.</p>
<p>Okay, so not to confuse you more, but had you considered combining engineering with music (eg. acoustical/electrical eng…music w/recording eng?).
Perhaps same is possible at the schools you mentioned. I know that at University of Michigan my s. is studying music tech w/dual degree film and that some in his program actually combine music tech with eng. But not in less than 5 years.</p>
<p>When I visited Northwestern last year, the financial aid presentation stated that Northwestern charges you for only four years of tuition if you complete the double degree program. In other words, you get the last year free.</p>
<p>NU may have changed their policies since then, but I think it is worth investigating. Before you make a final decision, ask a counselor at NU about the tuition policy for double degrees!</p>
<p>Going to throw my 5c in here and I hope it helps,but here goes:</p>
<p>1)From what I know of engineering programs (having several in the family, I was the black sheep, went into computers) they really are tough and take a lot of time. I am not saying it is impossible to do a joint degree, but I suspect as others have said that most end up doing one or the other.</p>
<p>2)It might still be possible to maintain music and get your engineering degree. I don’t know what Boston has in this regards, but for example here in NYC there is the New York Youth Symphony, that covers through age 22. Someone could for example study at Columbia in engineering (or cooper or wherever), maintain private lessons on their instrument, be in the youth orchestra and have the experience to be able to move on if the music bug was still there. Thus you could go to MIT or wherever (though quite honestly, working with some MIT graduates, you might find there school would be the only you have time for, it is quite a grind), and be able to do both. My son’s violin teacher did not major in Music, and for example (though an extreme one I will grant you) Yo Yo Ma didn’t when in school (i know, bit extreme), just as examples. </p>
<p>While majoring in music is considered the ‘standard practice’ it isn’t the only way from what I can tell (despite what, ahem, certain conservatories will tell you). </p>
<p>From my perspective, I think you will find your path and if music calls, it will. I also think you may be better off going to a school for the engineering and finding a private teacher to work with and alternate music venues to perform in (youth orchestras, whatever), if you really want to do the engineering (and obviously you are good at it, MIT isn’t known for admitting slackers, I couldn’t have gotten in to sweep floors;)</p>
<p>Thanks so much for everyone’s opinions!
I was not aware that DDs could normally be completed in 4 years, but that would be a refreshing idea. However, I don’t think I really feel comfortable entering a program not feeling confident in my ability to pay for it.
fiddlestix: I think you nailed it on the head. I see myself as an engineer with a really deep interest in music that has only been increasing over the past few years.<br>
kmccrindle: I have looked into that idea and actually interned in a lab that worked with that sort of thing. But I realized I really was not that interested in electrical or computer engineering. I plan to be a chemical engineer.
Bassdad: Drexel is a 5-year program, but I have a full-tuition scholarship so it is affordable.</p>
<p>FantomBassoon, the four-year “on paper” parameters for double degrees can often be misleading. While it is possible to do a dual major (one degree citing two majors, usually close related or interdisciplinary majors) with large number of overlapping credit requirements within four years, even these can necessitate some summer/winterterm coursework or an extra semester. It is not unusual for a science/performance double to take five years or longer.</p>
<p>As BassDad said, a science based/performance centered double pursuit is a tough nut to crack. Both involve time and credit intensive coursework, which may well conflict. Lab time and ipo slots may well overlap, even in programs that acknowledge and support a student wanting two disparate paths. </p>
<p>One thing that may help you sort this out is to study the degree requirements and degree outlines in each institution’s undergrad handbook. Know the requirements and credit distributions, and compare current (and past) course schedules and availabilities. Map out a four and five year plan upfront, and see where it may lead. Talk to some current students if at all possible.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>None of us can come close to making the right decision for you. I think it is a matter of “passion.” Even if engineering seems to be your career direction, what is your level of interest in music? Will you be content to take some lessons and play in a so-so orchestra? Will you want more and will you wish you could play at a conservatory level?</p>
<p>So far you have succeeded with academics and with music. If you want to do that in college and later in life, then go for it. If you decide to go for a serious music level, consider the fit with the music teachers as well as the performance level for you fellow students. Do the trial lessons and also check the grapevine for futher information.</p>
<p>Having lived through the chemical engineering curriculum, I can’t imagine doing a double degree in that and music in 4 years. Just from reading your posts, I gather you are leaning more toward Chem E but you want your options open in case music takes comes to the forefront. The Northwestern program sounds like the best of both worlds - if I remember right there is not merit aid there so I can imagine the financials can be hard. However, the typical Chem E entry level salary is very high - especially from a school like Northwestern. Another option you can think about is going to a school for Chem E getting the full ride and then find an excellent private teacher to work with and local performance venues for you to keep your music skills up. Good luck making your decision - it’s a nice problem to have!</p>
<p>If you are MIT/Caltech material, stick w/the engineering and do music on the side, via private lessons at college of choice or that community. S1 is graduating in May in Chem E, did music with extra-curricular college band all 4 years. Became harder jr and sr year due to other commitments, but otherwise he enjoyed continuing the music experience. The ec band at his school included all the music majors, so they played hard music, not just fluff for the non-music majors.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: am engineer, so am biased</p>
<p>I believe with Northwestern’s 5 year program, you only have to pay for 4 years, so the 5th year is essentially free. I’m pretty sure that’s what they said at the financial aid meeting I went to a few months ago.</p>
<p>Another engineer talking here, with music skills/interests on the side. So I am biased as The Mom and others above.</p>
<p>My advice: Concentrate on engineering and keep music on the side. Especially with MIT/Caltech and such. Not a lot of high-paid future work for bassoonists in comparison, especially with Obama pushing new technologies. With your interest in engineering, you may even find yourself migrating to the music/audio/electronic/computer engineering side. Set up your own PC/Mac digital audio workstation and learn those skills together with composition and scoring while at college.</p>
<p>Whatever. The more skills the better. You will not be able to get back into engineering so easily if you drop it now. But music is different. So many ‘non-musicians’ working in the film scoring business, for example. Self-trained Ok for music in many areas, but not for engineering. Assuming you are not set on being an orchestral musician, as ‘music’ has lots more to offer, and no need to be a virtuoso for much of it. </p>
<p>Hope my (biased) opinion helps in some way.</p>
<p>Fantom, as a parent I agree with RichardHK and musicprnt about doing the engineering thing and music on the side, especially if you are accepted into MIT or Caltech. Rumor has it that even the “C” students at Caltech are graduating making over 6 figures. That is hard to walk away from. I am curious how your own parents feel about this.</p>
<p>If you come to Caltech, the Los Angeles area has 2 fine college-level youth orchestras, one is the American Youth Symphony which rehearses and performs at UCLA, and the other is the Debut Orchestra run by the Young Musicians Foundation. Private lessons would be easy to find, especially through the Colburn School.</p>
<p>You might find it interesting (although hopefully will not add to your confusion!) to look up the bio of Robert Gupta, a violinist with the LA Phil. He was busy doing neurosurgical research when he decided to audition and got in–at the age of 19.</p>
<p>We are so lucky to have talented people like you in this world. I wish you all the best and feel confident that whatever you decide to do will make you happy. You are still young so don’t stress.</p>
<p>I guess we should close down the music degree forum. Just leave behind a message that a music degree is not a good choice. The only good choices are those majors which provide technical training leading to a well paid career.</p>
<p>edad-
I’ll stay and keep the lights on with you.</p>
<p>edad - did you have an advanced copy of the NYT when you made your last comment? Sobering story in today’s issue about a talented young high school violinist who sees no future for herself in music:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/us/15land.html?hp[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/us/15land.html?hp</a></p>
<p>the NYT specializes in these kinds of articles:
[Lawyer</a> Layoffs: Boon to Temporary Job Agencies - The New York Times](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/03/news/lawyer-layoffs-boon-to-temporary-job-agencies.html?scp=9&sq=lawyers%20job&st=cse]Lawyer”>http://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/03/news/lawyer-layoffs-boon-to-temporary-job-agencies.html?scp=9&sq=lawyers%20job&st=cse)</p>
<p>edad…the poster states that “engineering is my primary interest”…that is why there are so many voices encouraging the engineering path. I’ve always heard that you go into music if you can not imagine doing anything else with your life - it should be an all consuming passion because it is such a difficult road - and that was before the economic down turn. The posters are engineers themselves, so you are also dealing with the extremely practical, non-risk taking engineering personality…the comic strip Dilbert is so funny because it is all based on truths!</p>