<p>As I pointed out, the yields for A & S are the same or lower than UChicago, with W being only somewhat better, so I fail to see the "logic" of the yield argument. </p>
<p>As for considering UChicago a safety, we know several students this year that were accepted at such schools as Yale and Princeton but rejected at Chicago. Though some may do it, considering Chicago a safety is not wise. </p>
<p>One of my favorite quotes from "Confessions of a Prep School Counselor":</p>
<p>Do the most highly selective colleges really offer a better education than less selective ones? This would be a much easier question to answer if the University of Chicago weren't such an unfashionable place among so many undergraduates. There it sits, with its dreamy Gothic architecture of the precise type that kids nowadays go in for, its bumper crop of Nobel laureates (the most in the nation), its hugely impressive student-faculty ratio, its demonstrably extraordinary programs and departments. But the kids don't really like it. Why? It's too intellectual. What, then, do they mean by the term "good education"? Good but not too good, I guess.</p>
<p>(An aside: As for the quality of the "rejects," as odd as it seems, Krueger & Dale in their famous study found that from where one is rejected is a better predictor of success than is where one is accepted. That is, where one applies is more a predictor than where one actually goes to school.)</p>
<p>looking at the yields from the princeton review guidebook, uchi's yield is 34%, a is 38, s is 28 and williams is 49. the williams number is significantly higher. yet the three lac's have significantly lower admit rates than uchi. it shows me that uchi is more desparate to fill their classes and need to admit more because they know that almost two thirds of them will attend a more prestigious school. </p>
<p>regarding your personal knowledge of students being accepted at an ivy but choosing uchi is great, but one of the posters prior also know several who did the same thing and DID consider uchi a safety. uchi won them over with money. </p>
<p>i am not surprised that the passage you quote from would be one of your favorites because with each posting you show less and less objectivity. i never said uchi was not a good school. i said it was a a great school. it's just that sahaider has a good chance of getting in because the school accepts so many of their applicants, at least way more than the ivy's and a lot of the lac's. the numbers speak for themselves. all the articles in the world won't change that. as i said earlier, uchi should not be a safety school for an applicant with a 1200 sat, and they get washed out with the 60% rejects, but if you have good numbers, the likelihood in most cases is that you will get accepted by uchi and rejected by the ivy's and some lac's namely aws. noone would or should consider any of the ivy's or aws a safety school, but as one poster on this thread said earlier, all three of the peers who got accepted to an ivy that chose to attend uchi did in fact consider uchi a safety. </p>
<p>lastly, i never heard of krueger & dale, but citing them is irrelevant to the discussion as I never made any reference to whether attendees of uchi would or would not be successful, only that it is easier for sahaider to get into uchi than if he were to apply to a more prestigious school.</p>
<p>I have an addendum to make. I talked to two of the students I mentioned in my post (including the one that got into PSM) in regards to UofC, and they both said it was the merit money that made the difference. Granted, both of these students come from very high-income families, so the need-based aid prevalent in "more prestigious" institutes would have been harder to come by.</p>
<p>UofC is a great school, and it does offer merit scholarships, which is rare for a school of its caliber, but it's simply not as prestigious as its peer institutes.</p>
<p>Again, (as correlation never equals causality) that doesn't necessarily mean it's in any way inferior, simply that it's less prestigious.</p>
<p>They have about the same absolute number of applicants as Chicago, but have fewer slots to fill, but that ground has been covered. </p>
<p>It is entirely speculation, not objectivity, that students turn down Chicago for prestige. After talking with many many students about their decisions, it has been my "subjective" experience that Chicago's academic rigor is the most often cited reason for not attending. Indeed, a survey of students that choose not to go to Chicago, reported in the U of C magazine, found that most students who turned down Chicago choose "to attend by any measure less excellent schools," not more prestigious schools. </p>
<p>You made reference to Ivy rejects. Krueger & Dale performed the seminal study on the benefits of attending a highly selective college. When student variables are controlled, it turns out, there are none.</p>
<p>BlacknBlue: Who cares if U of C's admit rate is 40%? The point is that both the faculty and student body are among the best in the nation and the world.</p>
<p>well i feel a little bit better about getting in but not about going anymore. I have heard that the school is very demanding but I also heard that Chicago was a fun city to be in. It sounds more and more like it's not very exciting to be there however and maybe one of the other schools in Illinois is a better fit for me, such as Northwestern. Hrm.</p>
<p>jpps: i'll tell you who cares if uchi's admit rate is 40%. someone on the cusp who want to go to a world class institution but is afraid that their numbers may not get them into an ivy so they go ea at uchi because their admit rate is higher than the selective schools in the country. i am not arguing that the school or the faculty is not among the best in the country, i'm just saying that it's easier to get into uchi than say, brown. </p>
<p>idad: please stop with the articles. they mean nothing. who cares about kreuger & dale? i never said that uchi students don't succeed, please read my posts carefully. I only said and still maintain that for most of the admits to uchi, uchi is considered their safety school. you once again try to back up whatever your point is by citing an article. this time in u of c magazine. i assume it is a u of chi magazine and if so, their slant would be biased. it doesn't matter how rigorous uchi is, if the reputation were on a par with the ivy's, admits wouldn't be turning them down at a rate of over 2 to 1. it has nothing to do with the faculty or the quality of the education. it has to do with the level of the prestige, the surrounding neighborhood and frankly, i have heard stories about the friendliness of the student body or lack of friendliness thereof. once again, read this part slowly. uchi is a world class university. it's just that most admits choose other schools over them. the reasons why are superfluous, they just do. other posters have stated that students they know, currently at uchi, accepted at an ivy chose uchi over the ivy because uchi bought and paid for them. those students considered uchi their safety school. the ivys and aws all have warts also. this whole thread started because sahaider wanted to know if he could get in. 40% or more who apply, get in. 9.8% get in at yale. which school would sahaider have a better chance of getting into?</p>
<p>It was in response to your claim of objectivity. The articles cited scientific research and surveys, not opinion.</p>
<p>As for which school, Yale or Chicago, is easier to get into, Chicago is by the numbers, but write an average set of uncommon essays and it could be lower at Chicago.</p>
<p>As to the fun of UChicago.
My S is now attending Chicago. He reports he is having a great time. The work is indeed massive, but he loves it. He also loves the social life and camaraderie of his House and U of C friends. They are all over Hyde Park, Downtown and the North side. He gets a kick out the many different kinds of students at Chicago, and enjoys the diversity of the surrounding community. He says he has never been happier. This is not a kid who ever liked school all that much. He did his work grudgingly, and is at times a brilliant writer that often would barely make homework deadlines for writing assignments. He is an accomplished athlete, very social, and popular with females, to break the Chicago stereotype often described in the forum.</p>
<p>An aside: It is true, I am not entirely objective since I have had the opportunity over many years to be involved with undergrad students from many campuses, including the Ivies, Stanford, Northwestern, Chicago, etc. After being at the University for awhile, Chicago students simply have no peers. This is not a scientific statement, only years of experience. The Chicago style of thinking and argument soon permeates whatever the project at hand. This "opinion" was established long before I had a son.</p>
<p>idad, i'm so happy that your son is excelling at uchi. it's a wonderful place. i'm sure that the students are not unfriendly like some of the other threads make them out to be. i'm sure that the area around uchi is an oasis unlike what some other threads try to make it out to be and i'm sure that the admit rates posted for the ivy's are actually higher than uchi's, they just like to cook their books to make themselves seem better than uchi. i'm certain that those poor souls at the ivy's or aws are relegated to their sad lot in life because they couldn't handle uchi's uncommon essays and their rigorous educational program. i'm also certain that had your s gotten into an ivy, you would have lamented the fact that he's not at uchi, thankfully, you don't have to worry about that. it's all in how you look at it. you've opened my eyes. 40% is really less than 9.8% and 12% and 19% and 24%.</p>
<p>one last thing idad. you're not objective not because you have been exposed to a lot of students from other campuses, you're not objective because your s attends uchi. i will state one more time that i think uchi is a great school. it's just that it is not all that selective in comparison with the ivy's and stanford and aws and pomona and others when it accepts 40% of their applications.</p>
<p>Actually this happened to a close friend of my S's. She was accepted to both a top Ivy & UChicago. Chicago was her first choice. Unfortunately, the Ivy offered over $10,000 more in financial assistance than did Chicago. She pleaded with Chicago, but to no avail. With much regret, she chose the Ivy. She likes it, but still feels bad about not being able to attend Chicago.</p>
<p>If Chicago had the same number of applicants as did Brown (its Yin), its acceptance rate would be about 20% (if the numbers I found are correct). But what happens is students who have the numbers for Chicago, look at it and say, "too tough for me," and "select themselves" out. </p>
<p>Now, of the self-selected sample that did apply, a very special 40% are selected that adcoms believe will be Chicago material.</p>
<p>Next, about 62% that did apply and were accepted take an even closer look, and decide this is not for me, with most (as the data show) opting, not for the Ivy League, but for other schools.</p>
<p>When UChicago's self-selection is factored in, it may indeed be more selective than many of the Ivies.</p>
<p>A comparison of its numbers with Brown suggests that Chicago is not getting less qualified students. In fact Chicago's numbers are a bit higher, though not significantly. One would think that with all that "selectivity" and "yield" Brown would have better numbers, but it doesn't. Perhaps there is more than one type of "selectivity".</p>
<p>UChicago
SAT - Verbal Range (25-75%): 670-770
SAT - Math Range (25-75%): 660-760
TPR Projected Range SAT Writing: 670-740
ACT Composite Range (25-75%): 28-33</p>
<p>Brown
SAT - Verbal Range (25-75%): 650-760
SAT - Math Range (25-75%): 660-760
TPR Projected Range SAT Writing: 670-730
ACT Composite Range (25-75%): 27-32</p>
<p>Come on you guys, this is unbelievably stupid. I think the number of people applying to both Brown and UChicago would be fairly small. A lot of people apply to just schools in cities, just artsy schools, etc. Anyone wanting to study economics or physics or sociology would choose Chicago. For other subjects, it might be different. Yes, UChicago is all-around slightly more selective than Brown, and less so than HYPS. Who f***ing cares? No school in the country guarantees lifetime success for all of its students. As a student here, I can tell you UChicago was one of the top choices of a fair # of students here. My roommate from New York thinks people here are "open and friendly." A lot of other people here would disagree. These things, all of them, are relative. I imagine students at other even more pretentious ivy league schools would not be any more friendly, but I guess I do not know for sure. Out of curiosity, "BlackandBlue," what is your motivation for posting on this thread? If you're arguing without a purpose, then I think you should know UChicago would be a perfect fit for you.</p>
<p>Also I will at that UChicago's SAT is very comparable to AWS as well... so their selectivity is probably comparable.</p>
<p>idad, you can bend and contort and speculate all you want about the numbers, the bottom line is that they need to accept 40 percent of their applicants because only a minute portion admits attend. </p>
<p>i also feel really bad about your S's friends plight. offered more money to attend an ivy than uchi. she must have been heartbroken. if only the ivy had offered her less. another example of how they treat students like a number at the ivy's.</p>
<p>lastly, i now understand why uchi is not as prestigious as those other schools. apparently, their students can't read and if they can they don't understand what they are reading. i never made any correlation to success by attending a particular school. all i said was that sahaider has a good chance of getting into uchi because of it's high admit rate. uchi people are sure sensitive. another reason to go cross town and take a look at northwestern.</p>
<p>No, BlackandBlue, I did not say you correlated success with what school someone attended. I simply do not understand why you are going to lengths to say students typically prefer AWS and HYPS over UChicago, b/c there's simply no evidence for that. Some people do not apply to AWS and HYPS you know, believe it or not. And it's not just because they're convinced that they won't be accepted. Some people actually do not desire overly much to attend AWS and HYPS, believe it or not. And 40% choosing to attend is not minute in the least, compared to all schools other than HYPS W. I for a long while had a particular weakness for Swarthmore, but honestly, I've decided pretentious people **** me off. They spend all there time trying to prove that something is superior or inferior to something else, or trying to make great grades so they can go to the best grad schools and live a cookie-cutter "best-everything" life, instead of investing their "talents" into the real world to make real differences. Too much pressure to be the "best" hinders creativity, which in turn hinders scientific research, art, etc. I'm starting to think a less-prestigious school is the way to go. And yes, I completely agree with the point that it is easier to transfer into UChicago than HYPS, and that UChicago should be looked at with caution because their "life of the mind" motto doesn't tell the whole tale.</p>
<p>I think this thread is just hilarious. With its Core, Brown is the anti-Chicago. Moreover, Chicago would become much more selective if it went to the Common App. Maybe not as selective as the Ivies, but, then, again, it's located in the midwest where winter temperatures typically hover less than Anchorage. Further, Chicago doesn't give out gentlemen's B's, or in Harvard's case, A minuses....</p>
<p>pretentious people at swarthmore? no kidding, seems to me that some of the threads here say the same about those at uchi. bluebayou, good call on switching to the common app, but i'm sure uchi feels that would be too pedestrian. it's their ridiculous essay prompts that make them chicago. but i agree with escape, i hate those pretentious swatties.</p>