OP, I don’t think you need to “show interest” to every single school. You know what common data sets are. You know which schools care about “demonstrated interest” and which ADcoms would really rather not be bothered with emails asking dumb questions. Even with the interviews, heck, my D did not need to regurgitate anything at all about the schools she was interviewing for. What she needed to do was to communicate her passion and why she wanted to go into the field she wants to go into, which you can do, and you can do that same spiel for every school. She walked in with a resume and the interviewers basically asked her questions off of it, and she came prepared with some questions for the interviewer, and it always went fine. The interviewer isn’t going to know specifics about Professor so and so’s fascinating research on widgets. Someone could be over prepared to the the hilt and still do a bad interview if he/she is a person who is not easy or enjoyable to talk to. Seriously. Just concentrate on what you want to do in the world, and how you think College X will help you achieve that. Give the interviewer a story to tell about you that does not involve (“well, he obviously memorized our course catalog/marketing booklet/youtube video.”). It’s ok to admit you are flexible as far as preference for urban/rural, large/small, Ivy/LAC. Those things are not why you are going to college–those are the window dressing and it’s refreshing to know that. People here are putting fears into your head about “demonstrated interest” that are their own personal fears. Don’t listen to them!
@Baloney1011
I had not seen that you worked on and revised several of those applications for two months.
Good luck with your admissions!
Great interview tips, redpoodles!
“Christ above, if I were to listen to people like you, where would I ever get in life?”
@Baloney1011 - I don’t know what to say to you - as a mother and a teacher, what I read here of your attitude does not make you sound like a very honest or humble applicant. You state that you are able to fake humility and meaningfulness and perhaps that is true.
It might be a useful thought exercise to ask, why fake humility/meaningfulness? Do you think that there would be value in truly being humble or finding meaning before dashing off emails to potential schools/employers? If not, why not? Why do you think that displaying those characteristics would likely to give you a leg up in the world? If it’s a good reason, then why not strive to actually have those characteristics?
I think there is no shame in a student putting, as I said, significant effort into defining what would make him/her a great match for one or more colleges. You have implied that such an attitude would be for suckers and that you have mastered a different approach to winning the game.
I guess we’ll see if you care to share the results, but even if you make it to Harvard, make it to a banking career, I doubt I’m the only person who would be unhappy hiring you to invest my money if you think it’s fine to phone in the honesty, humility, etc. Perhaps you will fake it anyway and still find [financial] success. I think, having known many adolescents, that it’s more likely that you will mature and perhaps actually develop some more self-reflection and humility. I hope so, because it will lead to more success in areas that matter a great deal in life.
I think if you are willing to admit so openly that you faked your way through your essay supplements, that it is unlikely you have shown a totally humble attitude for four years to your potential teacher recommenders (and remember, faculty share their impressions, so what some know, you can assume that all know). If you use Naviance, and perhaps in any case, your teachers know how many schools you’ve applied to. I doubt that’s actually relevant to them as some have suggested, but it won’t be a secret.
Finally, I can say on good authority, i.e. the last 18 years of my HS career, that a good subset of kids who “listen to people like [me]” make it to phenomenal colleges and successful paths.
@CaliCash, I would say that you really shouldn’t believe everything you read. Especially when they’re written by people who don’t have much of a clue about the field they’re writing about. As someone else said, Wall Street Oasis is a great site for figuring out how many people from which schools (and b-schools) get on to Wall Street. Trust me when I say that Street targets are much more broad than HYPSW (MBB consulting aren’t much more, however).
OP, why would you apply to those many schools? Do you actually want to go to all of them? If so, great, it’s your money.
I applied to 16 schools myself, so I’m not really one to talk.
What’s shotgunning?
I would term it as applying to a large number of schools, particularly reaches, in hopes of getting not only an admission, but the most prestigious admission possible, primarily through luck.
Oy vey. I’m not sure what the purpose of all this hullabaloo is. Based on everything the OP has posted, I really don’t think he is interested in what we think of him (nor should he be, we don’t exist to him except as meaningless usernames and the occasional rainbow eye or adorable guinea pig in a winter hat). I don’t think it matters to him if we think he’s humble, or a nice person, and he doesn’t owe any of that to us, just as nobody owes him advice. If he bothers you, don’t comment.
Many of these top schools specifically say on their websites that they don’t care about demonstrating interest. It’s not that hard to fake interest, something does not have to be genuine to be effective, and the top schools know that. In addition, for many top schools, they get too many apps to adequately track everyone’s interest - the logistics would be a nightmare. I know CaliCash cited one student who got into Florida, but that seems exceptional to me, and it’s possible that he had other circumstances that endeared him to adcoms (first gen, low income, significant hardship etc.) For the schools that do take interest into account, maybe Baloney1011 will be effective in putting on a facade. Maybe he won’t. He probably won’t ever know, and neither will we.
There’s nothing objectively wrong with shotgunning. And, just as an aside, there are multiple ways to shotgun. You can do it more like OP did it, and just pick a bunch of prestigious schools with no real regard for fit, or do it like @Iamthegoat did it, and use fit as an early discriminating factor, and then throw out a few applications to other schools. Incidentally, I happened to do that, 20 schools, 11 reaches, 4 of which I did basically no research on and picked only because they either had no supplements or I had already written their supplements for other schools. I’ll play the devil’s advocate here and say that I think OP’s strategy has some merits. There’s no wasting time visiting schools you end up not getting into. No emotional investment in the process, so you don’t end up being crushed by your rejections. Potential for having lots of options if your interests or what you like in a school changes (you apply to all LACs, and then realize after you get accepted that LACs aren’t really your thing). If you start early, there really is plenty of time to write supplements, and for some you can just recycle (Harvard, Yale, Georgetown, and William and Mary all asked for an essay that “told them something about me.”). I did 14 apps in one month, and I can easily see how someone could apply to 30 schools (maybe not in one week, like OP, but that was a flaw with his process, not shotgunning overall).
Really though, this is all just useless speculation until April, when we see where all the shotgunners get in.
Also, not to call you out @CaliCash (I’ve seen you on other threads, and I usually agree with you), but it was unnecessary to tell the OP that he needs to get a job because he owes his parents app fees. I spent $1325 on app fees alone, plus probably another $500 on test scores. Fortunately, this does not cause my family any kind of financial hardship, and my dad was encouraging me to apply to even MORE schools. He thinks that another chance at a school, and another potential option, is worth $75. If I tried to pay him back, he would refuse my money. Parents don’t always think shotgunning is a bad idea. Some want their child to go to a prestigious school, and they don’t mind paying for having a better shot at that. That may or may not be the case for OP, but it is certainly unfounded to assume that he has some sort of debt to his parents, or that they were up in arms over this whole scheme.
“…it is certainly unfounded to assume that he has some sort of debt to his parents…” Speaks volumes.
I’m afraid the validity of this “study” may fall into some question. With 250 posts to date, it is in danger of coming to the attention of Admissions Officials in at least some of those schools, thereby possibly affecting the results.
Considering that you’re a high school senior with a school on your list that costs nearly $70k/year, Cali, which you can only afford if your grandfather ponies up $35k or more a year for a minimum of 2 years (possibly more if the school doesn’t make up the difference between your $35k EFC and their full COA), I’d be careful about trashing other teens decisions. You have perfectly affordable options available to you, yet you’re choosing to chase Northwestern because it’s a name school. The only difference between you and the OP is that he thinks his parents have the resources to pay for his choice.
CaliCash is a high school senior, fretfulmother. You might want to check Michigan’s website and do some research yourself instead of depending on a teen not much older than your son.
It will be really interesting to see the results in April! @Baloney1011 it would be great if you would give a detailed report at that time, telling us what happened with each school. It’s interesting that price is not an issue. That means that you will truly be able to choose your top pick from the schools you get accepted into. I can see how the shotgun approach might make sense in this case, by netting you a larger pool to choose from. (My son’s semi-shotgun approach will hopefully get him a few affordable offers…but he will have to choose from those schools only, not all the schools at which he is accepted.)
Good luck!
Many are wishing me good luck, and I’d like to thank all of you for your support.
@butterfreesnd Excellent summation of the thread thus far and a much-needed refutation of some of the sillier points.
@MidwestDad3 “Speaks volumes?” I’m afraid I don’t understand. Debts between family members don’t really exist in my family and money is communal, and my parents would be extremely offended if I tried to pay them back money. Perhaps that’s why I was a bit taken aback by @CaliCash 's advice.
@JustOneDad Please tell me you’re not seriously suggesting that an admissions committee is going to spend time trying to identify “Baloney1011” on CC.
@midwestdad3 I believe you may be taking my quote out of context, or possibly misunderstanding me? I don’t mean that children owe nothing to their parents, just that regarding college app fees, not all parents expect monetary compensation. If they do expect monetary compensation, that should be expressed from the beginning of the college search. CaliCash is unaware of the expectations of the OP’s parents, and it’s not fair to OP to say that he needs to monetarily recompense his parents. Perhaps CaliCash’s parents would expect that of CaliCash, but that doesn’t mean that OP’s parents expect that of him (actually, based on his recent post, it would seem that they DON’T expect that of him). Of course, OP should realize that this is not possible without his parents and be grateful for their emotional and financial support.
I sincerely doubt that the OP’s parents are unaware of the number of schools he has applied to. Can these application fees be paid in ways other than by credit card? I have been assuming that the parents are necessarily aware of, and on board with, his choices. If that is the case, then I see no reason why OP would be obligated to pay his parents back for these costs. If they intended to be paid back, they should have established that when he was applying and asking for the credit card information.
Most parents push kids to apply to more schools in order to have a better chance in the admissions process, and personally, I think that it’s fine to apply to more school, but there’s always a limit. 31 schools is quite excessive.
Let’s break it down, shall we?
Publics: Colorado School of Mines, Indiana, Rutgers, UMich, UPitt, UNC- Chapel Hill, UVA, William and Mary
I don’t know where you live, but these schools are all over the place, meaning that your OOS fees will be skyrocketing. Since you only want to do business, I would just choose UMich, and possibly Rutgers or UVA. The other schools are unnecessary.
Ivies: Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton, UPenn, Cornell, Columbia, Yale
I personally would apply to just half of them, because they’re all different, but you applied to all of them, so all I can say is that your essays better be good, if you want to get into at least one of them.
The Rest: Amherst, BC, Vandy, Villanova, Notre Dame, Northwestern, Duke, Fordham, Georgetown, Lehigh, UChicago, Williams, NYU, Stanford,
Do you want to be an engineer or an investment banker? Half of these schools don’t even have business schools…
Anyway, I would have applied to BC, 'Nova, Duke, and NYU.
Anyway, good luck. We’ll see what will happen.
As a scientist, I have to entertain that possibility.
@Hawkace, many IB targets don’t have b-schools. Investment banks don’t only target b-school students.
BTW, I have to say that the vitriol I’ve seen in this thread is beyond my comprehension. Seems that some people are personally offended that someone may apply to 31 schools. Heck if I know why.
And no, he’s not taking spots from anyone (nor would the system break down if everyone applied to 31 schools). Schools understand that they will have a certain yield and admit accordingly.