So I shotgunned.. what's the big deal?

Applying to College
121

I applaud him for making his own decisions and not listening to what can be done or not done, As Steve Jobs said “Stay hungry, stay foolish”. Whether his actions are “foolish” will be determined by the results - both from the admissions office and from what he takes away from the process.

If the result is rejection and he learns from it, it is a good outcome.If the result is an acceptance from one of those 9 colleges, I hope that he does not take away that being marginally-prepared and relying on luck is a workable plan. He needs to recognize when and where he got lucky and do better. Next time, he may need to rely on luck for different aspects, but hopefully his GPA will be better…it is a learning process.

If he did not apply, he will forever regret thinking that he did not get into college x because he did not apply. At least now, he will know. Paraphrasing Wayne Gretzsky’“You will miss 100% of shots you don’t take”…

As I said earlier, this approach is not for everyone, but I don’t see a fundamental flaw. Live and let live.

122

It’s a reality, that’s what it is. There are extremely limited exceptions when it comes to grade inflation/deflation, and a 3.6+uw which the OP admitted at his own school does not qualify for any exception.

123

OP is welcome to do whatever he chooses and his HS allows (some schools put a limit on apps).

  1. I find it disagreeable because he implicitly says that fit doesn't matter, which I disagree with for my family, but perhaps there are people who would fit at almost any school. Still, who could be equally happy at UMich and UChicago or Brown, Columbia, and Cornell?
  2. I guess I don't want my high regard for Adcoms to be diminished if OP is accepted to very different schools that practice holistic admissions.
124

this is an admitted student’s profile from this year’s Harvard SCEA, no hooks and mediocre scores and grades (relatively speaking)… this brings to mind the point that you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take:

SAT I (breakdown): 2120 Total: 710 Reading, 690 Writing, 720 Math
ACT (breakdown): 31
SAT II (place score in parentheses): 730 Math 1, 720 Physics
Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 3.65
Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): 8/ 415
AP (place score in parentheses): 4 AP Eng Lit, 5 AP Eng Comp, 4 AP Calc AB, 5 AP Physics
IB (place score in parentheses):
Senior Year Course Load:
Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.):

Subjective:
Extracurriculars (place leadership in parentheses): Debate Team, School Newspaper, Math Club, Science Club
Job/Work Experience: N/A
Volunteer/Community Service: Volunteered in orphanage every weekend.
Summer Activities: 2 Summers of volunteering in Africa for poor children. Harvard Summer school for one year. 2 Week debate camp.

Essays:
Teacher Recommendations: 8/10
Counselor Rec: 8/10
Additional Rec: 9/10

Interview: Fantastic Interview: we talked a lot.

Other
Applied for Financial Aid?: Yes
Projected Concentration: Undecided
State (if domestic applicant): CA
Country (if international applicant):
School Type: Public
Ethnicity: Asian
Gender: Male
Income Bracket: 200,000+
Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): NA

Reflection
Strengths: A fairly typical/competitive app.
Weaknesses: Scores could be higher.
Why you think you were accepted/deferred/rejected: I’m a fairly average candidate… but holistic admissions means that a lot of luck is involved. I rolled the dice, and I just got lucky.
Where else you are applying or have already applied:
General Comments/Advice/Hindsight: Honestly, so much of college admissions comes down to luck. At the top schools (HYP), they can accept all 2400’s if they want to–but they don’t. They use holistic admissions-- so a good essay, good interview etc. can make the difference. If the admissions officer is having a good day, your chances increase. So much comes down to luck that you should not apply early unless it is your top choice. My family has tons of legacy at another good school and I was pressured to apply there early “in order to maximize my chances.” But I knew that I did not want to commit to a school without giving my best shot at HYP. If you have worked so hard for four years, you should at least try! DO NOT live with regret. There are so many schools you can apply to regular, why throw it all away applying early somewhere else without giving a school like Harvard a shot first?

125

@1203southview the OP characterized his extracurriculars as “meh in general, nothing spectacular.” I don’t think very many people would consider volunteering in Africa for two summers and an orphanage every weekend as “meh.”

The Harvard SCEA applicant’s essays were probably more than “good” and his/her recommendations were probably better than “meh”. I don’t think you can draw a parallel between the two applicants without looking at them in context. The SCEA applicant shows that admissions are holistic and more than just GPA factors into it. He/she probably spent a good deal of time on their Harvard essay rather than churning out 50 supplementals in one week.

126

This OP is not getting into Harvard.

127

I’m still curious about his volunteering at the senior center. What did you do?

Did you write about it?

128

“The Harvard SCEA applicant’s essays were probably more than “good” and his/her recommendations were probably better than “meh”. I don’t think you can draw a parallel between the two applicants without looking at them in context. The SCEA applicant shows that admissions are holistic and more than just GPA factors into it. He/she probably spent a good deal of time on their Harvard essay rather than churning out 50 supplementals in one week.”

Exactly, sen. Teacher recs make a huge, huge difference. A student of mine who got into Stanford SCEA with a 5% admit rate this year and who also got a LL to Columbia had a teacher rec unlike even very good ones. It was phenomenal, while also being quite accurate, and supported by the exceptional intellectual enthusiasm that was obvious to all who knew her. Her score’s? Like those in reply #123. When will people understand that it’s not about the lists, the scores, the “formulas?”

Also, people have to be really careful about reading past a student’s minimizing, modest, or dismissive tone in the CC Results thread. I remember a few years ago when I happened to be very interested in the results threads for H that year because I had also been reading the posts of those same students prior to the decisions coming down. To interpret their self-deprecating comments literally, one could have assumed that their profiles didn’t amount to much. I communicated with them after those results, and in fact they were unusually bright and accomplished. Public statements don’t tell the story, necessarily (and some students are more exact, forthright, thorough than others).

129

Does shotgunned mean sending out lots of apps to colleges where you would be a competitive applicant anyway or to colleges where you’re borderline and hoping that the sheer number of apps will result in an acceptance? It sounds like a strategy that’s only useful for kids whose families can be full pay or those with stats that are high enough to get substantial merit aid. But those are both factors that could tip the scale toward acceptance anyway, aren’t they? So how would these students know if it was the stats (and/or lack of financial need) or the shotgun application method that helped them get accepted?

130

^ because the 9 schools I listed are unlike the examples you’re giving, that’s why. The 9 schools get to have it all, because they’re presented with such enviable applications and don’t have to be need-aware. They don’t have to consider accepting unhooked “borderline” students who don’t need aid.

131

@sen302015 I actually had some people look over my essays today, including my Harvard supplement, and they told me my essays are really good. I didn’t have much time to reflect on them so I naturally assumed that my essays weren’t as good as they could have been. I’m sure many were not in fact as good as they could have been, but at least for Harvard, if that’s what we’re discussing, they were excellent.

I also have NO idea what my teacher recs were like. I tried to downplay everything in the stats that I posted here because I wanted to be conservative in my chances thread - who knows, maybe my teacher recs are meh? But the teachers I obtained them from did very much like me, and there’s a good chance that both recs were very good.

@epiphany I know at this point you’re just determined to prove to me that I have absolutely no shot at any of the top schools in my list, and I don’t know why you specifically feel the need to downplay my accomplishments while accentuating my weaknesses. But hey, go ahead, it’s a free forum.

@JustOneDad I may have mentioned it in a few essays, but I preferred to talk about my independent research, as it sounded more impressive. I did mention how I was named “Head Volunteer” at the Senior Center and how I helped start a Technology Club where other volunteers and I would help seniors with their phones and computers, so that’s another sort of-leadership position. Apart from that it was regular volunteer work - preparing lunch, serving coffee, cleaning up, etc.

132

I am routing for you Baloney 1011. Your acceptance to some of these schools would highlight that “uber elite” college admission can be pretty arbitrary (for the “average” high-scoring ORM/maj kid). Keep us all updated as the results come out. I respect your chutzpah.

133

@Skrunch Haha thanks, I’ll resurrect this thread in April (assuming people aren’t still passionately debating at that point :P).

134

"I don’t think very many people would consider volunteering in Africa for two summers and an orphanage every weekend as “meh.”

I think volunteering in Africa can be seen as meh as it just shows that parents are wealthy and are able create such an experience for their kid. Orphanage every weekend versus hospital or homeless shelter every weekend? these are just things that some of these kids are doing to rack up their volunteerism hours… checking boxes.

I’m just illustrating that this is an example of where one of the 9 schools who doesn’t have to take a low gpa, lowish stats kid with no hooks, did. We don’t know this SCEA’s real vibe and essays and we also don’t know OP’s either. Some people may have an extraordinary talent in putting out meaningful essays without limiting it to under 10. If so, more power to him and I hope he has some good outcomes.

135

Wow. What a thread. Can’t wait to see your results. I think you will be happy with your options.

136

How did the student profiled in post #123 manage to volunteer in an orphanage every weekend? Time machine? AFIK there are no orphanages any more in the U.S.; just group homes for teens. Younger children are in foster care.

Baloney1011, good luck. I prefer your method to the kids who apply to three reaches because they are sure to get into one. I wish we could afford to apply to more than four or so. Please let us know the outcome.

137

“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.” That’s true southview, but neither do you very often see people attempting 60-yard field goals. This is because they know the statistics, they know their limits, and there are more effective ways of getting the job done (like simply going for it on 4th and 3).

I better understand your support for OP’s approach having read through the very interesting thread from November on your S’s college search. Yes, while it looks like your S is applying to a large number of schools as well, I would argue that there is a world of difference between his approach and that of OP. You have visited the majority of schools he is applying to. Together with your son you have weeded out a number of elite schools that aren’t good fits. You’ve wisely eliminated some schools based on location. You’ve looked at the strength of the program your son is interested in, and have eliminated otherwise great schools that won’t serve his academic interests optimally. You’ve applied widely but strategically. I applaud that. (Your son also has a stat that clearly sets him apart, and makes him a viable candidate at any of the ivies.)

OP, on the other hand, can try his 60-yard FG. If the wind is at his back, maybe he will get lucky. After all, every day someone in the US wins the lottery, even if millions of others end up throwing their tickets into the trash after checking their numbers.

138

^interesting analogies, Midwestdad3… and I don’t buy lottery tickets, lol. I don’t even waste my quarters in Vegas in the slot machines. I agree that one should be a contender in order to apply this approach; I am just giving the benefit of the doubt that the OP is a contender.

IMO, an extremely strong contender can get away with just applying to about 10 schools. Someone with a flaw in their application but who has other strong merits may consider a wider approach as the OP has if they can execute it. Someone who is average with no strong points that make them stand out, i.e. not a contender for the uber elite schools, is simply wasting their time.

139

I kind of find it hard to believe that someone actually thinks this is a good idea. I’m a little concerned about you, OP. What do you do in your spare time? I observed so-called shotgunning methods among students at my high school who really didn’t have anything else going for them other than their grades or test scores, and it didn’t pay off. For instance, there was this one guy who purportedly sent out applications to several dozen schools because “admissions officers can’t read ALL of them” and learned in March that yes, they really did.

I just skimmed your chance thread, and umm, can I ask where your super inflated ego is coming from? Is it your ACT score? Because I don’t see that much going for you other than that. Sorry to become the UrbanDictionary stereotype of a CC’er here (you’ve done your part as well), but you’re most likely not getting into elite schools regardless of how many you apply to, because your application is just a little lacking and no amount of dart-throwing can fix that.

I really want to ask you to come back and update this thread once decisions come out, but we all know that’s not going to happen. At least you applied to a safety.

140

OP, you have not answered the questions about whether your safeties (both the ones you have already gotten into and the ones you haven’t heard from yet) are affordable. This all means nothing if you can’t afford any of the schools. In another thread you said your parents make $150K, but you are applying for FA. What is the situtation? Is one of your reasons for “shotgunning” to try to get merit or FA? Have you run NPCs? Can your family swing the cost of the schools you have gotten into so far? Of the schools on your list, which ones are you CERTAIN your family can afford?